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Gus
Dodge Dakota
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12/21/2006
21:51:28
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 Subject: 98 Dakota 318 magnum Backfires
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1998 Dodge Dakota SLT 5.2L V8 Magnum Engine with less than 40,000 miles on it.
I'm having some slight issues with my Dodge Dakota.. I hardly drive it during the summer months and it sits in my backyard that is grass. I realize its not the best place to put it, but I have no choice. After about 5 months of sitting in the backyard with a sunshade over the windshield (as to not crack the dash) the truck has its typical issues from sitting. Sticky brakes and that type of stuff.
However I am STILL -after about 3 tanks of gas with fuel injector cleaner added- the truck backfire from the muffler. Not LOUD backfires, almost like pings. I have also noticed that it happens a lot when its wet out.. rain and snow majorly affect the backfiring. During a nice sunny warm day, it doesn't backfire at all.
The truck does have a few mods on it, K&N intake (which was just cleaned and re-oiled) and a G-Unit module for the ECU.
I'm not possitive if I should look at the spark plugs and wires? Thinking maybe a mouse found his way into my engine and chewed wires? Or If I have a cracked distributor cap getting extra moisture during the wet days? Maybe a vaccum issue somewhere? I did order a scantool and I'm waiting for its arrival to read to pcm codes.. My check engine light -WAS- on but it did eventually turn off.
Any suggestions?
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Joe M.
Dodge Dakota
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12/22/2006
12:06:05
|  RE: 98 Dakota 318 magnum Backfires
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"I'm not possitive if I should look at the spark plugs and wires?"
yepp & pop the dist. cap off too
i bet you the inside of that looks like hell
(more then likely all cruded up from sitting, rather then cracked)
give it a complete tune up
plugs, wires, cap, rotor
dont by the cheap cap an rotor auto zone sells
(tin inserts)
get a set with brass
Accell, MSD, or your local napa (which i use)
Napa sells Echlin cap an rotors (just around 12$)
all brass inserts & made in the USA
give us an update after
dont forget an oil change too
especially if its dino oil
oil go's wayside after sitting in an engine
un'used for months
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Gus
Dodge Dakota
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12/26/2006
15:36:30
| RE: 98 Dakota 318 magnum Backfires
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Well I thought I would do a partial update. I got my OBD-II Scanner in the mail today. Its one of those ELM USB tools that connects to my laptop. Reallly kewl stuff to see everything on that engine sending information back via that lil port.
Anyway, I checked the error codes, and it came up with a P0132.. which is an O2 sensor high voltage. I dunno if that might be causing the problems or not.
I have not checked the distributor cap yet, but I did order a new cap and rotor. Accel hi-preformance rotor and dist cap. I also ordered the accel "blaster" coil and the upgrade wiring harness that fits the new dakotas. So I'll be taking the truck to the local dodge dealer and have them install my new parts thru a tune-up package. I also have the autolite spark plugs and new spark plug wires. Hopefully they'll also check the o2 sensor and tune it back to dodge specs. I'll let you guys know how it all turns out.
By the way.. if any are wondering why I don't just replace it all myself.. simply put.. I'm not mechanically inclined. I can see the distributor behind my air breather hood. But as far as yanking wires and plugs and all that.. I'm -SURE- I'd screw something else up major.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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12/26/2006
22:39:15
| RE: 98 Dakota 318 magnum Backfires
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Vacuum leak. A bad intake belly pan gasket causes a run-lean condition, which causes backfires, as well as causes oil to be sucked into the intake, which further aggravates the issue. Look down the throttle body and see if there's an oily residue on the intake floor. Chances are, the gasket is shot.
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Gus
Dodge Dakota
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12/26/2006
23:09:16
| RE: 98 Dakota 318 magnum Backfires
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wow.. well that don't sound too fun to replace. Something about Belly on a engine.. I did check the throttle linkage and even the butterfly on the intake itself. The intake was a little dirty nasty but never though about looking down those holes.
Ahhh well, just proves completely to take it too the dodge dealer and have him check it out. I figured while I'm at it, I also got a new thermostat (the lower one from JET) so I'll have him do that too.
What causes the belly gasket to leak?? Just old age or what? I got 38,000 miles on a 98 dakota.. course my 4x4 dash light also burned out already.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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12/27/2006
21:56:23
| RE: 98 Dakota 318 magnum Backfires
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The belly pan gasket is a horrible design, so bad that I sometimes think it was intentional. The LA 318 and 360 were incredibly reliable, low warranty claim engines. Pre-Magnum LA's had knock sensors...at least my Shelby did (and it had the stock D150 318 setup), but Magnums don't, so when the gasket starts leaking, it pings immediately, not after the computer would have made adjustments. That way, when the thing goes, everyone comes in for service. Then again, it was designed by the same group that has fumbled about with overdrive units that burn up if you look at them harshly...forever tarnishing the bullet-proof reputation established by the 3-speed Torqueflites. So, was it planned, or just eggheads that never raced on weekends (the guys that designed the T'flite and the LA engines were weekend warriors at the drags, and they did it for fun).
Either way, there was a fix introduced that has a steel re-inforcement imbedded in the gasket to resist failure. There are also aftermarket fixes that implement greater holding power...see Hughes Engines, they have it if you opt to add that extra protection.
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Gus
Dodge Dakota
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12/27/2006
22:03:02
| RE: 98 Dakota 318 magnum Backfires
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Well I'm just hoping the local dodge dealer figured out whats wrong with the thing and keeps it from backfiring and loosing power. Nothing worse than not having a reliable vehicle you can start and go. Not having to worry if your truck is gonna start sputtering when you merge on the highway in front of that big rig.. or even turning onto the busy main drag during rush hour only to get a "bupp.. bupp.. bupp.. pooof" where your horsepower should be.
I tried everything I know of too fix it.. which basicly consists of cleaning my intake filter and spraying my linkage with silicon. After that, its time for the pro's to figure it out.
So hopefully the PRO will give me an option on the new gasket for the bigger, better, improved one. :D
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akhgsv
Dodge Dakota
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12/28/2006
16:54:39
| RE: 98 Dakota 318 magnum Backfires
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Ahh, unless i'm wrong if the truck is misfiring, the O2 sensor will see a rich condition, unburnt/partially burnt fuel.
just wait till you get the wires. try not to over analyze. Dealership, your going to get hosed!!!!!!!
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Gus
Dodge Dakota
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12/28/2006
17:15:03
| RE: 98 Dakota 318 magnum Backfires
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Yeah the dealership is not my first choice on where to take it. My preference is Belle Tire.. but they won't install -MY- parts.
I just got all the Accel stuff because I -KNOW- that those are high quality parts as well as JBA wires and autolite plugs. I'm certainly hoping the o2 sensor is just like you said, over rich fuel because a plug is fouling.
I did however download the PDF of the Intake Belly Gasket "recall" and I'll bring that with me when I drop the truck off. If its a possible hazzard of getting "sucked into the engine and causing issues" then I'm certainly going to have it replaced.
I was on the Durango forum and seen a lot of people with `99 durangos having the belly gasket issue.. certainly don't want that headache. This thing has been running like a champ since I purchased it new in 98. Just the long period of inactivity in the summer with the heat and the "little woodland creatures" finding their way inside the engine compartment. I thought it was just an injector clog at first, ran 3 bottles of Lucas injector cleaner thru it, still sputtering and bucks when I try to lay on the gas.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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12/28/2006
21:02:59
| RE: 98 Dakota 318 magnum Backfires
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Yes akhgsv, now follow the chain. Misfire, O2 sensor sees a rich condition, which really doesn't exist. So, computer leans out. Now you have an excessively lean condition, causing power loss (not to mention the vacuum leak which eventually gets so bad the computer cannot compensate for). Oil sucked into the intake past the leaking gasket causes pinging, which causes even more power loss. I don't wish anything bad on him, but this is a problem every, and I do mean every, stock OEM-style Magnum intake will experience sooner-or-later.
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akhgsv
Dodge Dakota
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12/30/2006
02:04:19
| RE: 98 Dakota 318 magnum Backfires
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Evidentally, you've only worked in your own garage. I'm going by what he's saying not what i'm making up in my head. tell the voices to calm down. he stated the truck sits in his yard almost half the year. Why would you tear into the engine??? wouldn't you check the obvious simple stuff first. Are you a service writer at a dealership, trying to drum up work?
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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12/30/2006
19:33:13
| RE: 98 Dakota 318 magnum Backfires
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Evidently, you can't even spell (see above.."evidentally"), so you really don't have any place ridiculing me. Your response is typical. You don't have a clue about the process, and then imply that I'm saying you're making up the symptoms. Lame.
My correction of your comment on the run-rich situation, and your handling of that (change the subject, fling an insult) says more than I ever could.
Having a vehicle sit and not run for several months is a sure-fire way to have problems develop, especially involving gaskets. They sit, dry out, shrink, and leak. Anyone with real-world auto experience knows that.
Obviously, the simple things should be done first. If you look back, you will see that I didn't say the tune-up suggestion was wrong. What I have detailed here is what has to be done AFTER the simple things have been addressed. The bad intake gasket is the single worst issue the Magnum system has. And yeah, I work on my own stuff, that's why I know what to do if a tune up isn't enough. Why would I criticize the whole system if I were (as you claim) working for them? That's a rhetorical question, by the way. That means you don't need to answer it.
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Gus
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2007
23:51:50
| RE: 98 Dakota 318 magnum Backfires
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Well.. I just got back from the dealership.. They said to do a tune up which I gave them the OK to do. 230.00 later for Champion spark plugs, new mopar hi-perform plug wires, dist cap, and rotor I was ready to roll today. I got no further than the Dealerships driveway when a dinger came on in my dash. No.. not the check engine soon light.. it was my "WASH LOW" light. LOL!!
Soo I take it home, and notice a bit of a hesitation with the engine. I also noticed a sputter and a backfire, but nothing as bad as it was. I figured maybe it takes a few miles for the new plugs to get broken in.
I come home and look at my receipt. Come to find out, I specifically asked for them to check the intake gasket. The mechanic told me all I have to do to check it (for my own reference) is to take off the air hat and flip open the butterfly.. then look down the butterfly with a flashlight to see if theres oil in the intake.
Well, you guessed it, they found oil down there... and apparently a pretty good leak as well. So the Dakota went BACK to the dealership today.. getting the top and bottom gaskets done as well as upper and lower radiator hose, and the thermostat. Total cost is 5 and 1/2 hours labor plus a 75.00 gasket set. Otherwise known as 655.00 plus taxes. For those keeping track.. 230.00 for the plugs and wires, and 655.00 for the gasket set. 885.00 for a backfiring Dakota!
They also said they don't recommend those modules for the ECU??? I got one of those things off ebay a LONG time ago.. called a G-Unit or something like that. Connects inline with you ECU.. splice the wires and its suposed to tell your computer you're getting perfect air. My Laptop scanner said I was getting 115* air thru the OBD-II port. Wouldn't 115* air, make your ECU lean it out soo much that it'd be sluggish and sputtering?? Anyway, the ecu mod is getting chopped off and its getting put back to 'normal'
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/04/2007
03:02:04
| RE: 98 Dakota 318 magnum Backfires
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When you pull that module, go ahead and leave the battery disconnected for a while to help clear it. I mean, they should've had it disconnected when they did the intake and it should be clear, but just to be sure, let it sit for several minutes without power.
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Gus
Dodge Dakota
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1/04/2007
03:21:52
| RE: 98 Dakota 318 magnum Backfires
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Should I pull both cables?? or just the negative and then turn the key to the start possition?? I heard that is how to reset the ECM module.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/04/2007
22:15:18
| RE: 98 Dakota 318 magnum Backfires
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I've always pulled the hot lead, not the ground. Then cycled the ignition a couple times, flipped the lights on. That sort of thing, to use up any residual power. Actually, I have read that both leads should be pulled and placed in direct contact to do the deed. My method works well enough for me.
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Gus
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2007
19:28:24
| RE: 98 Dakota 318 magnum Backfires
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Well.. I thought it was running fine.. come to find out its still the same ol` same ol`. Just took a day to get it back to backfiring. I actually think its worse now with the new gaskets, oil change, plugs, wires, dist. cap, and rotor.
The worst part is, the dealership says they have no IDEA whats going on because there are no codes coming up on the pcm. The guy at the dealership is confused now. They ran a compression test on the #8 cyl and compression came back great.
Soo now what?? Fuel Pump/Filter?? MAP sensor? Throttle Sensor? Injectors? IAT Sensor?
I drove it Friday before I took it in.. and almost got driven off the road because coming down the on ramp and giving it some gas.. it just sputters and bangs and can't get much past 40 mph. Semi behind me, and a dick ahead of me who can't figure out I wanted the hole BEHIND him, not in front of him so we're neck and neck at the ramp. *grumbles* People REALLLLLLLLLLY need to learn how to merge...
Sooo what do you guys think?? The engine is a 318 with less than 40,000 miles. Cold Air Intake is basicly the only MOD on the truck now. The dealership cut off the IAT mod.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2007
21:48:47
| RE: 98 Dakota 318 magnum Backfires
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Ahhhh, scatter-gun mechanics. All that technology, and they can't diagnose the thing. I'd go over every vacuum line, just to be sure, then pop for the map sensor first. Basically, you could wind up changing everything, so I'd go with the sensors first, being sure to reset the computer after each replacement.
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Gus
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2007
23:26:08
| RE: 98 Dakota 318 magnum Backfires
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Thats what I was figuring.. on my OBD-II scanner software I get a MAP reading.. of like 115 I think was the reading.. but yeah, and at $82.00 a hr labor rates.. not exactly something I want tom thumb playing with himself with while he's running a diagnostics on the thing..
If it was the fuel pump.. wouldn't you think the ECM/PCM would get an error code back for low fuel pressure? thats what gets them and me.. Also do the new engines have timing chains? It almost feels like the timing is off on it.. but that should all be PCM controlled I would think??
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/09/2007
04:06:17
| RE: 98 Dakota 318 magnum Backfires
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Yep, still have timing chains for cam timing. The ignition timing is controlled by the timing chain in the sense that the cam spins the distributor, but the PCM controls all advance, etc. On the chain, there's a tensioner to help maintain very tight timing, as required for the fuel injection/ignition. Anything is possible, but I tend to doubt that the chain has jumped. If it were so bad as to allow that, it'd gradually get worse....unless your tensioner is bad, that is. You're gonna have to flesh it out one thing at the time.
On the fuel pressure error code, I think not. The test procedure requires one to use the DRB to activate the fuel system and the user to check the fuel pressure. If it had a pressure sensor, the DRB could just tell you the pressure, but it can't, so I'm thinking there's nothing in there to read the actual pressure.
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Gus
Dodge Dakota
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1/09/2007
14:42:11
| RE: 98 Dakota 318 magnum Backfires
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Well I'm going to pick it up today. They didn't change anything as I'm getting kinda PISSED at the Dealership for all this run-a-round. Its got about a 1/4 of a tank of gas in it, soo I'm gonna take it straight too the gas station.. add some lucas fuel injector cleaner and fill it up with premium gas (93 oct). See if I get the fricking thing to -PING- hard enough to send a chk engine light to go on. I dunno what else to do at the moment. I do know its going to a good local garage from here on out.. these guys just let it sit outside not even trying to get it too ping again. Thanks for the help and I'll keep ya posted on whats next
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