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swilliamson
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2004
18:39:29
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 Subject: TB milling, Air horns?
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Message:
I have noted that all of the milled or high performance throttle bodies all have the "air horns" shaved off. What does shaving the air horns off accomplish? The reason I ask is a EBAY auction got my attention. The seller has a spacer plate that goes on top of the throttle body between the airhat and the throttle body, essentially making it a flat plane. The spacer is relatively cheap, and if it accomplishes the same affect as shaving the air horns, it may be a cheap alternative to a "shaved" TB.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2480096611&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT
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GB2000
GenIII
5/27/2004
19:08:35
| RE: TB milling, Air horns?
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Message:
That prolly would work okay... but that's not gonna port your tb (remove the torque step from the bores). What I'd do is take it in to a place with a machine shop and see if they'd port it and remove the air horns and stuff...hopefully you got connections with a machine shop anyway.
Josh
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swilliamson
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2004
21:14:01
| RE: TB milling, Air horns?
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I wish, but not gonna happen around this part of the country. I am putting a V8 TB on the 'ol 3.9l and don't want to lose too much low end torque by porting the TB. I was thinking if making the top of the TB smooth would help, I would spend the ten bucks for this spacer. What do you think?
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another mark
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2004
21:31:33
| RE: TB milling, Air horns?
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Message:
Hmm that circular ridge around the top of the TB is what helps keep the air hat centered. If you put in a plate elminating that (I dont' know what the plate looks like) how do you keep your air hat from slip sliding around. I realize its bolted through the middle of the air hat but vibration could send this hat of the side. Also, those air horns just obstruct air from getting into the mainfold quicker. I don't see how grinding them down hurts low end torque. I have a 3.9 and the F&B TB which doesn't have these horns and I have ALOT more get up and go then I ever had. It was the single best mod I've ever done to the truck.
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another mark
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2004
21:34:08
| RE: TB milling, Air horns?
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Message:
Hmm that circular ridge around the top of the TB is what helps keep the air hat centered. If you put in a plate elminating that (I dont' know what the plate looks like) how do you keep your air hat from slip sliding around. I realize its bolted through the middle of the air hat but vibration could send this hat of the side. Also, those air horns just obstruct air from getting into the mainfold quicker. I don't see how grinding them down hurts low end torque. I have a 3.9 and the F&B TB which doesn't have these horns and I have ALOT more get up and go then I ever had. It was the single best mod I've ever done to the truck.
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GB2000
GenIII
5/27/2004
22:01:55
| RE: TB milling, Air horns?
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Message:
Removing the air horns wouldn't hurt low end any whatsoever... removing the torque step won't either with the V6 tb, but you're right, you will lose a lot of low-end if you port a V8 tb. I'd go for it...it's only 10 bucks.
another mark,
your air hat sits on a rubber seal/washer thing which is kept from sliding around by the tb bolts. It shouldn't slide. I removed mine and have no problems with sliding but I do have to make sure my edelbrock air cleaner is lined up before I tighten it down.
Josh
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Relf
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2004
22:26:48
|  RE: TB milling, Air horns?
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Hey Swilliamson, I am a machinist of about 11 years. I could mill your t.b. for you if you had a spare shipped to me clean, and if you can give me all the correct numbers and stuff I could do it. I have access to a CNC. Post your e-mail and I'll get in contact with you. I have the V6 t.b. and it doesn't seem hard to hold in a mill vise or to even clamp it to the table. Milling the air horns would be simple. Doing that I would ONLY cut those away and leave the bosseson the casting that would center your air hat and gasket. Then, of course, you would have to bend up some 1/4-20 threaded rod to make a Z bar since you would not need the stock air hat bolt plate thingy. Let me know. If you have the specs on what size to bore things to for a V6, so I can do mine, I'll do yours for free. Just pay to ship it twice. Relf.
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Relf
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2004
22:33:14
|  RE: TB milling, Air horns?
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Message:
Hey, would anybody know if just milling the airhorns away would decrease gas mileage? Or airhorns+bore? Does anybody only cut away the airhorns? Another Mark? How does the F&B look? Do they bore out the throttle plates bigger? Thanks. Relf.
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99DAK
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2004
00:13:00
| RE: TB milling, Air horns?
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Message:
Everything I've read and heard says bolt the V8 body on as-is. Remove the air horns and you lose more velocity, which you're already losing some with the larger bores.
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GB2000
GenIII
5/28/2004
01:40:17
| RE: TB milling, Air horns?
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Message:
You know...after thinking about it, you may be right. The throttle body pulls air in like a vacuum right? That would mean if you removed the air horns, it'll be able to pull in more air. More air with a V8 tb would mean loss of low end I believe. (which means you're right)
Now if the tb just allows air to flow in naturally, which I'm doubting (anybody with more engine knowledge than me can prolly answer that one real quickly)...it wouldn't do anything but allow the air to more efficiently flow into the bores, but due to the bores not increasing in size, there wouldn't be any more air flowing in than usual.
Josh
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another mark
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2004
01:42:35
| RE: TB milling, Air horns?
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Message:
If your seriously concerned about MPG then just leave your stock throttle body alone. Going to an F&B or a V87 tb is for more performance right? In this case performance and MPG don't go hand in hand. You will be stepping on it. And if you don't get it on it, then why buy this part? The F&B will cost you, but it's worth it. It's made from scratch on a CNC machine out of aluminum. Yes the bores are bigger at 48mm, as opposed to the stock TB bores (97-99 at least) of 46 mm on the 3.9
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99DAK
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2004
11:19:14
| RE: TB milling, Air horns?
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Message:
My 99 had the 42mm and going to the unmodified V8 body gained me about .5 mpg. And it's definitely worth it even if you don't "get on it" because it pulls much better on hills now (way less downshifting) and has passing power that was previously nonexistant. And for only about $65.
That said, I agree that if you currently have the 46mm you won't see (as) much of an improvement.
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Wadak
GenIII
5/28/2004
12:12:22
| RE: TB milling, Air horns?
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Message:
swilliamson, I put a v8 throttle body on my Dakota in May of last year. I did nothing to it and noticed a considerable gain in performance. After that I did cut down the air horns rounded the top of the openings to the throttle plates, I did not remove the torque step. (the ridge in the throttle port bores directly above the plates. This improved throttle body even further and it was noticeable. I didn't notice any loss of low end torque. The plastic plate you describe looks as if it were fashioned after the top of an F&B throttle body.
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swilliamson
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2004
14:51:47
| RE: TB milling, Air horns?
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Message:
Thanks for all the info guys. I think for now I am going to spend the 10 bucks and check it out on the V6 TB, at least until I get a V8 TB (hopefully in the next week or two).
Relf, thanks for the offer on milling. I am a total novice at this stuff, so I am not sure what specs you would even need. I know the bor needs to be around 48 mm, after that you would need new "butterfly" plates, and maybe even new bolts to mount them. I doubt a machinist such as yourself would have any issues with all that. I also know some people shave the "cylinder" that the butterflys mount too. Let me know if you are still interested. You can click the little email icon underneath my username if you would like to email me.
For the specs, your best bet is Wadak and/or Larry, they are very knowledgeable about this stuff, and always extremely helpful.
BTW Wadak, if I have not thanked you for your help in the past, let me do so here. I have not had the time to incorporate all your suggestions yet, but summer is here and thing are slowing down. I will let you know the outcome.
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