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boomer47
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2004
21:54:54
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 Subject: Basic Mods?
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I've put in the 3923 plugs, 180 stat and Dynamax SuperTurbo and TPS adjustment.They all improve performance.
Tried a homebrew cold air system and saw no improvement so did this:
Got a IAT sensor at NAPA, part# TS3004,$26.99, and installed it inside the air inlet of the stock box,loosened up the inlet horn enough to stick the snout in the hole in the fender, ran wires under the filter and out the rear drain hole,fabricated the connections and hooked it up.
The NAPA even came with a plug that I used to cover the oem sensor which I left in the intake.
Seems to work as good as the homebrew and I can disconnect it and hide the wires,plug up the oem sensor and go back to stock when I need to visit the dealer for warranty work.
My '03 3.9 does run better with this setup, especially after it warms up, more pull in second and third gear from a dead stop now without having to keep giving it more gas pedal to keep it from dogging down at each shift.
Anybody tried to insulate the stock air box? I'm thinking that would do as good a job as the cool air systems I've seen. Maybe even a paint job with a reflective coating would help.
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99DAK
Dodge Dakota
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5/26/2004
12:38:19
| RE: Basic Mods?
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I've become convinced that intake restriction is by far the bigger problem than intake temperature. I used to have a cone filter and it was way better than the stock setup but I became concerned about the less filtration/more dirt issue, so here's what I did: lose the "inlet horn" and enlarge the hole in the airbox to about 4.5" diameter, keeping the stock paper filter (I had already cut the flap out next to the radiator). I've tried it with and without a 4" cold air tube to the front grille and noticed no difference.
I got the same gains as with the cone filter which were quantifiable - +2 mpg and no downshifting on uphills like I was getting previously (not an "imagined" performance gain).
Also, if you haven't done so already, do yourself a favor and get a bigger TB. Depending on which bore you have now (42mm,44mm,46mm) you can see quite a dramatic improvement with no real downside.
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boomer47
Dodge Dakota
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5/26/2004
13:27:45
| RE: Basic Mods?
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Thanks. I'll try the open stock box. I have the same problem, downshifts on every little hill. Just runs out of power. I'll also try the TB a little later.
It seem to me that a little insulation around the stock air filter box would keep the intake air a little cooler. The box gets really hot from sitting next to the exhaust manifold and that has to be heating up the intake air.
I'm going to try to find a box at a junkyard so I can fiddle with it and put the stock back on for if need be.
I'd like to find some kind of insulating paint to try on the box and tubes. Wonder if header paint would do any good?
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99DAK
Dodge Dakota
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5/26/2004
14:42:45
| RE: Basic Mods?
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Yeah, that's what I did, bought an airbox off of Ebay so I'd have an extra one to experiment with - but I'm quite happy with my modded one now.
Measure your TB bores and see which size you have. I had the 42mm and going to a stock 50mm (48mm step) V8 body was an unbelievable difference - I can pass on 2 lane highways with ease now where before I couldn't even think about it. It's hands-down the best $65 I ever spent. You just have to give the PCM some time to re-learn.
Only other things I've done is 180 stat, Bosch plats, and synthetic in motor and diff. Getting 23.5 mpg @70mph - prior to intake mod and TB, barely 20.
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thekidwenthxc
Dodge Dakota
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5/26/2004
16:35:32
| RE: Basic Mods?
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or you can just get a volant cold air intake
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boomer47
Dodge Dakota
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5/26/2004
22:10:32
| RE: Basic Mods?
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Yeah, but all the cold air intakes I've seen are not insulated. The air just has to be heated going through the heated tubes.
I'm trying to get at least some heat reduction on the air to the TB.
Got another stock box at the junk yard today. I don't know what model it came from but it fits and the snorkel hole is round instead of oblong like the stock tube so it should be a little easier to hook up a tube and get some outside air to the box.
Insulation and TB next.
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03dakota
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2004
10:31:01
| RE: Basic Mods?
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99dak so all u did is remove the inlet horn and make the daimeter bigger with a stock air filter and got same gains as like a k&n intake
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Dan
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2004
10:49:06
| RE: Basic Mods?
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Boomer47
Change your oil to amsoil. That is by far one of the best mods you can do. Ask amsoilguy for the right oil.
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99DAK
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2004
11:54:15
| RE: Basic Mods?
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03dakota - I've got to be careful what I say here lest the K&N fans burn me to a crisp, but yes, both setups gave me +2mpg and noticeably better passing and hill climbing power. I'm not a racer so I don't have any 1/4 mile or dyno numbers, but I drive the same route FL to NE GA on a regular basis and with the stock intake it would drop out of OD on anything more than a gentle uphill slope, even @70mph. Passing on 2-lane highways, forget about it.
After I was happy with the intake I did the V8 TB swap and all I can say is, wow. I couldn't be more pleased, or impressed, with this little V6 (and I have two other vehicles with V8s, a Dodge 360 and a Pontiac 350).
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boomer47
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2004
18:52:08
| RE: Basic Mods?
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I agree with 99DAK. The box I got from a junk yard cost $25.00, air hat and tubes included.
I ran the extra air hat to box tube from the round air inlet of the box to the opening by the rubber flap. Looks like plenty of air is coming through there even with the flap in place.
Seems to be as good a setup as an add on cold air system and a whole lot cheaper.I've got the K&N drop in filter in the box and I'll bet it stays clean longer than a cone filter at the end of a tube stuck out in the open.
I would also bet that an add on system costing a lot more would not show any more of a gain on my more or less stock engine.(180 stat,tps mod,dynamax superturbo and autolite plugs)
Seat of the pants dyno tells me that this air setup does help. It won't make a v-6 act like a v-8 but it does, like 99DAK said, help get up the hills without all the downshifting and does pull better from a stop,especially in second and third gear(auto).
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RedSniper03
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2004
22:01:23
| RE: Basic Mods?
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wow thats cool i was looking into getting a v8 tb and a k&n intake but since u both said this i am thinking twice about spending 200+ $ on the intake so let me c if i understand u correctly all u have 2 do is remove inlet horn and drill out the hole it pops into to about 4.5" and thats it? what were u saying when u said u cut the flap out by the radiator do i have 2 do this? i am having the same problem it sucks going up hills and i am not even going 2 attempt to pass cause it is real sluggish thanks for ur help boomer & 99dak
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99DAK
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2004
23:57:11
| RE: Basic Mods?
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Yes, get more air into that box. You don't have to cut the rubber-sheild-thing out but I would recommend it since my results are based on having done it and theoretically, lower intake air temp=more power.
When you first put the bigger TB on, top end will improve immediately, but launching off idle will be slow at first. Don't let this worry you. As the PCM "learns" the new TB it will get better - and keep getting better for as much as the first 500 miles - just be patient.
Hey boomer, do you lose mpg in the winter due to the 180 stat? Next winter I'm going to try partially blocking the radiator whenever the ambient temp is below freezing, cause it's costing me like 2mpg - whaddya think?
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boomer47
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2004
10:12:02
| RE: Basic Mods?
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99DAK
I only have 7,000 mi. on it. Bought last Oct.
I'm getting around 15-16mpg with ac on in town and 19-20mpg on the interstate.
Haven't got enough miles since the air box mod to tell any diff. but I'll give up a mile or two for the difference in the way it runs.
It dosen't get cold enough here to make much diff. in the engine warming up with the 180 stat. My gauge goes up to the same point,about one needles width past the first"normal range" mark and that gives me plenty of heater.
I put the 180 in a few days after buying the truck so don't know what the diff. between the 195-180 would be.
I've got a 318 in a '97 Grand Cherokee that been running a 180 stat for 7 years with no problems.
Sure wish I had that engine/trans/rearend combo in the truck. That jeep will pull stumps.
Redsniper03.
I didn't enlarge the hole, just ran the extra air hat to box tube I got at the junk yard, from the box to a spot between the headlight and radiator. I left the flap alone but thats your call. You'll get more air with it out of the way but probably get a wet filter in a heavy rain.
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J and J Auto
GenII
5/28/2004
11:06:39
| RE: Basic Mods?
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Message:
There is another big snag in the intake systems
on these trucks.
Intake manifold top of port there is a overhang
into the port as much as 1/4 inch hanging down
and on some the injector spray actualy hits this
Removing this and widing the port to match the
gasket and head with no internal mods to the
intake is showing 10hp gain at the rear wheels
from just removing this excess materal
About a $40 project new gaskets and some sanding
drums from a hardware store, worth the time and
effort to do this, We did 4 V6 motors the same
way removing this besides the hp gain they all
also showed an increase in gas mileage from 1 to
2 mpg and better low end
Larry
J&J Auto
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99DAK
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2004
11:53:38
| RE: Basic Mods?
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Larry - I think I already know the answer to this question but I'd like to hear it from you.
Is there some point with these motors where mpg will max out no matter what else you do? I'm quite happy with mine - actually I feel like I'm blessed with an exceptionally good production motor - 23.6 mpg highway with very few mods, but if I can improve it more then great. Here's what I've got: CC, 4x2, auto, 3.55 LSD, 30" tires, stock 3.9 except for V8 TB, 4.5" airbox inlet, 180 stat, Bosch plats @ .040"
boomer - I've driven through torrential, wind-driven rain without the flap and the only thing I've ever gotten in the box is a few extra bugs.
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boomer47
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2004
13:54:14
| RE: Basic Mods?
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Message:
99Dak,
Didn't mean to rain on your parade.I haven't tried to no flap deal so just thought by looking at the opening that a lot of rain would get through to the tube. I'll take the flap off and try it as soon as I get to the dealer and get some of those plastic gadgets that hold it on so I can put back if I want.
I also forgot to say in this post but I bought a IAT sensor at napa and put it in the filter box top right below the outlet to the TB and made up an extension cable from it to the oem plug. Left the oem sensor in the intake manifold so I can switch back and forth and see if I'm really doing any good or just fooling myself.
Larry, how about a little basic step by step on that mod when you have time.
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xmr
GenIII
5/28/2004
15:13:32
| RE: Basic Mods?
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Message:
I have run over 10000 miles with my flap removed and there is absolutly no problem with water bothering the intake. Rain,snow what ever it just not a problem. Quit worrying.
'98 cc auto /Home brew cold air with K&N,Dynomax, Superchip Tuner, 1.7 RR,, F&B tb. NAPA cap and rotor, 3923 plugs,tps mod,relocated iat, 180 t'stat, Crankshaft sensor mod.,PVI
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JFH
GenII
5/28/2004
21:00:14
| RE: Basic Mods?
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Message:
Larry, do you have the procedures to do this mod? If you don't want to post it feel free to e-mail me. Also how long does it take to do?
Thanks in advance!
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/546400
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hey
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/29/2004
19:28:07
| RE: Basic Mods?
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Message:
hey larry, can u please explain this alittle more? as if i were to do this myself? Intake manifold top of port there is a overhang
into the port as much as 1/4 inch hanging down
and on some the injector spray actualy hits this
Removing this and widing the port to match the
gasket and head with no internal mods to the
intake is showing 10hp gain at the rear wheels
from just removing this excess materal
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J and J Auto
GenII
5/29/2004
21:04:49
| RE: Basic Mods?
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Message:
I see Daks all the time getting 24 25 mpg the best
I ever seen was 25.8 so I would say around 25 mpg
would be about the best you can ever expect.
I am getting 23 24 with my 95 4X4 with all the
mods a port match and the PVI system stock 92
motor
On the intake.
You need to get the intake and pletium gasket from
chrysler the quality of there gaskets is better
than aftermarket junk around $35
You need to remove the intake from the truck to
clean this port out
Disconect batt cable and remove alt and air and
the mounting bracket, now remove the fuel rails
and all wires from intake, The injectors will
pull out of the intake with a little pull and
twist remove all 6 and just set a side no need
to remove clips just be sure holes are clean and
use a little oil on orings during reinstal
Take 2 bolts and some washers and just lightly
tighten the old gasket to the intake and you will
see the overhang at the top and how it needs
to be widened. just line with the marks from
the coolent they are planly visable and remove
excess material, not just at the very end but
right back into the runner
finish with some sand paper to smpth out and put
it all back togather, dist does not need to be
removed
Intake bolts 12 to 14 foot pounds
pletium 14 to 16 pounds
Once you have the old gasket lightly tightend to
the intake you will see how much it can be
improved for flow
The top where the injector goes you will see it
hanging down in the port and probably even see
where the gas from the spray hits this obstruction
Oh ya don't forget to drain the coolent down
before you remove the intake manifold there is
water going through it and you don't want this
draining into the motor, a few drops wont hurt
but a lot will
Its also a very good idea to warm it up and change
oil and filter after any internal motor work no
mater how hard you try you always get some dirt
Larry
J&J Auto
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