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Greg
Dodge Dakota
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5/12/2004
20:38:00
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 Subject: Engine mods / Running rich ???
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Allright I know it takes a long time for the computer to recalibrate itself and all, but I think my engine is seriously running rich while it's idling... I've done all of the following and probably some more that I can't think of right off of the bat ---
recalibrated tps to .78 volts
cold air intake
tornado
holley ported to full 52mm intake
hughes stage 1 intake (bores opened to 52mm)
gen 3 fuel injectors (stock 19lb setting)
180 degree fel safe t-stat
#HER0814AL (idle - 5500 cam)
double roller timing chain and tensioner
degreed cam (2 degree advance from stock)
performance lifters
advanced timing to +3 degrees (moved 3/8" toward oil filter)
advance fuel sync to +3 degrees (turned distributor cap minorly "+3 degrees" counter clockwise)
crower 7.050 pushrods (regrinds no matter what will require longer pushrods, learned this the hard way)
crower 1.6 rr's (only regret wished I had gotten 1.7's)
crower guideplates
ported and polished heads (big improvement over stock)
shaved .020" heads
extra angle on new stock style valves
new valve springs, seals and so forth
gibson headers, catback exhaust
carsound cat
all new sensors from dodge dealership (O2, tb, ignition, and so forth)
msd ignition, blaster coil, and ap3923 plugs gapped to .060" (allready checked and burning good and tan) also degreed plugs to 12 oclock
Asp underdrive crank pulley only
Now does make a nice camming sound at idle, but seems to run very rich... Infact will almost burn 1/16 to 1/8 tank idling for 15 to 30 minutes, but will burn less than that driving 20 miles... Averaging 18-20 some miles to gallon right now taking it easy and breaking in good (keeping around 2000 rpms) will average around 15 to 16 mpg... Engine only has around 300 miles on it since starting and just now really starting to come alive :)) I know it takes a while, especially with this many mods, for the computer to really get in the fuel curve and all and to really learn everything, but something just isn't adding up here... Is the t-stat ruining everything, fuel sync not just right??? I was getting around 20 - 25 mpg before and was expecting more after all of the mods, but instead it's much less... Also has fairly black residue or carbon buidup left in exhaust pipes... And was burning minor amounts of oil while idling, but I'm sure just valve seals seating in good and on top of that might be burning out the rest of the oil that I poured in around the pistons and combustion chambers...
I'm sorry to have made such a long post, but I'm confused and it really doesn't seem to have the power that it really oughta have, but of course it still hasn't really learned everything and I really don't think it will till it has atleast 1000 miles on it if not a touch more... I just hope someone on here can help me a little on this...
Thanks in advance for all the replies,
Greg
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?
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/13/2004
11:13:56
| RE: Engine mods / Running rich ???
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Message:
Possible fuel sync a little too advanced
may give more Power , But will reduce mpg.
Also did you relocate the AIT sensor
or using a " tweaker "
Again this will increase Power
but at expense of mpg !
As for " power it should have "
possible motor just needs to " break in "
a little more ? Or the fuel sync is Bad both
ways ?
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J and J Auto
GenII
5/13/2004
11:21:08
| RE: Engine mods / Running rich ???
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Message:
Recheck the fuel sync, should recheck with any
new chain or cam install after about 1000 miles
the will change. initial streach and wear on the
new parts
Try this
remove map sensor and turn the rubber elbo around
block the port on the throttle body.
Now run a small tube from the elbo to the drivers
side intake there is a test port remove the plug
and hook the tube to this direct manifold vac
give it a few hundred miles to learn and see if
it runs better.
You may have a low vac signal at the body
Larry
J&J Auto
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Greg
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/13/2004
15:05:43
| RE: Engine mods / Running rich ???
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Message:
Well I need to also readjust my rockers from the sound of it now... Nice minor tapping sound at idle :// So the low vacuum will make one run rich at idle... Did not know that one... I'll have to try that and see just how it goes this weekend while I'm adusting the rockers...
I did not relocate the iat, but might later on just to see if it does help or make things worse... Have heard both good and bad on it...
I'm just glad that there aren't any check engine lights yet... May also try different "stock ported tb" just to see if that helps any off of the line or not...
Thanks for the help so far...
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Greg
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/14/2004
20:56:55
|  RE: Engine mods / Running rich ???
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Ok here's what I've done so far to further my tuning... Went ahead and put the amsoil dual remote bypass system on er' after two engine "oil only" drive flushes... So far loving the system, but I'll post about that in another post after getting more figures...
I rerouted my vacuum line as Larry advised, seemed to "not completely", but pretty much fixed the rich idle running problem... BUT biggest improvement was readjusting the crower 1.6 rr's... Since I set the lash on all cylinders pretty much the same the first go around I just turned them another 3/4 of a turn... Now I know that might seem like a bit much, but I only went 1/2 turn the first time... Was kinda worried about possible pushrod bending, but nothing so far :)) Now she takes off like a bat out of he11 ; )) I love it... Only minor thing I don't like about all of the mods I did, was it really doesn't let loose untill 3000 - 3500 rpm's...
I think "after I got to remembering" the oil burn or smoke durring idle was from a combination of things... Such as the valve seals seating up "probably still are", along with the fact that the old gas that was in it had about a 1/2 quart of marvel in it along with some fuel stabil... Both will make the motor seem as it's burning oil when not... I did that to lubricate the valves and everything durring initial startup along with keeping the gas half way fresh...
Gas mileage is up as well, so I'm getting really happy now with gas prices being $2.00 for regular around here in some places and over that in most other places...
It's extremely torqy "as if it were an inline" at low rpm's (800 - 1800) and really unleashes it's hp at around (3000 - 3500)...
I still haven't gotten around to resyncing the fuel sync yet and really don't know if I ever will anytime soon... We'll just have to wait and see... I'll probably do it when ever I pull my plugs, check the gap and allignment, and file the electrodes for a just touch better spark transfer... Will more than likely be some time this summer before really getting around to that... I guess it just depends if it starts running funny in the next 1000 miles or not :))
Thanks for all the advise so far and I hope it keeps coming...
Thanks Again,
Greg
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Greg
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/15/2004
12:26:54
| RE: Engine mods / Running rich ???
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Message:
The crower roller rockers still seem to be making a tapping noise, mainly on the drivers side while idling... Is this normal for the roller rockers, because I really don't want to tighten them down any more due to possibly bottoming out the lifters and causing some pushrod / valve train problems... I just always thought that the rr's were suppost to be quiter for some reason... May be something else on the drivers side causing the problems...
Don't really know...
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daffydak
GenIII
5/15/2004
12:34:18
|  RE: Engine mods / Running rich ???
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Message:
Are you sure its not an exhaust leak from your headers? I had a broken manifold bolt and was blaming my lifters!
just my .02
Dan
MOPAR=More Power!!
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Greg
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/15/2004
14:52:35
| RE: Engine mods / Running rich ???
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Message:
No I tightened down the gibson headers when I readjusted the rockers... I couldn't see or feel any leaks around them... BUT it could very well be down around where the y-pipes attach, because I did have some minor problems getting them to really hook up, but it really sounds like it's coming from the valve covers... May check them again later on, but I'm really happy with the motor so far... I might use the ol' homemade stethascope too, just to try and find it a little better...
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J and J Auto
GenII
5/16/2004
12:14:45
| RE: Engine mods / Running rich ???
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Message:
Crowers,
I like to adjust them while running.
Just let it warm up a little losten the allen lock
screw and back off slowly untill there is a deff
tick. play with it untill you find 0 lash where
the ticking sound just disapears, than give it 3/4
turn down 1/4 at a time to alow it to colasp to
that than 1/4 again. bleed down 1/4 again and you
will be right on the money for preload needed for
the rollors
The crower rollers are noisier than stock rockers
but should not tick
remove only one valve cover at a time to do this
because you will lose a little oil there is no
better way to adjust the crowers.
Leave the IAT where it is for now
A jet 2 chip at this point with your mods would
give you 1 to 3 mpg and bring in some low end
torque dropping the IAT signal and the other
signals they modify
They also give you a 1 to 3 degree advance around
2500 3000 rpm you will notice it after its on for
a few hundred miles you will notice the benifits
of the stage 2 chip
People say the jet chips don't work but I say they
do once your modded more we have them on a lot of
trucks that are heavily modified all show better
gas mileage better low end and better exceleration
around 3000 rpm.
On a stock or nearly stock truck they don't help
a lot but with more mods they do
Larry
J&J Auto
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Greg
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/16/2004
19:27:40
| RE: Engine mods / Running rich ???
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Message:
OK I just got through adjusting my rockers again... Thanks Larry for the input on how the best way to adjust them is... I don't know why, but all of my blasted intake rockers had to be adjusted way down and they still made some minor ticking even then... I was using a stethascope to listen while it was running down around the rocker tips... It may just be the fact that I put in a different lift cam for the intake and exhaust, but should it have really made that much difference???
I know it will really light up that one right tire now... LOL I wish I had gone ahead and gotten the lsd, 355 gears and viper tranny for it, but no more money for now...
I think the reason it was buring a little oil or rather smoking while idling also had to do with the fact that when I went to check, everyone of my intake bolts could easily be turned with one hand... I guess the ol' sayin about needin to keep a torque wrench with you at all times after a rebuild is true, huh... LOL
I'll keep the jet stage 2 chip in mind for the next addition Larry... Thanks again for all of your input now and before the build as well Larry... If it weren't for you I don't really know how it would be running right now :)) If any at all... LOL
Oh yeh should my spark plugs all be burning diff colors??? I've only been checking the one's on the passenger side to see if they were burning right and while I had most of the junk out of the way on the drivers side I went ahead and pulled them only to find that they were still gapped at .060", but they were burning a really bright white on the electrodes... So I gapped them to around .065"... Seems to be running a little better now, but I guess time will soon tell the whole story... I guess I've only got around a little over 300 to 400 miles on it since initial startup... Seems like a lot more though for some reason, so it's definately still breaking in... I'll check everything again this next weekend... By then it oughta have around 5 to 700 miles on it...
Thanks Again,
Greg
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