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tony
Dodge Dakota
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3/15/2004
03:12:00
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 Subject: Is this normal?
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Message:
I have an '89 3.9L v6 gen I dakota w/ auto transmission and OD. When I am going about 55mph, I noticed that my engine is running at about 3000RPM with OD turned on. Is this normal, anyone? I figured like in many trucks with OD that after the trans shifts into the last gear and into OD at about 50-60mph the engine would run at about 1200-2400 RPM. I know that at this speed with OD on that the engine should sound deeper being at the lower RPM. Often, when I would accelerate hard and push the pedal to the floor to race it, the transmission would allow it to downshift like normal to the next lower gear, causing the engine speed to jump vioently past the red line at about 5000+RPM!
Our '95 dodge ram van with the 3.9L sounds the exact same, but the van doesnt even have OD. I know that the truck IS shifting into OD because on cold days, it takes a little longer than normal to shift into the OD. I feel that the engine should be running slightly slower still. In park or neutral, the idle sounds great, but in gear, somethings not right. If there is a problem, or if this doesnt seem right in any way, then how would I fix this? Does this happen in many trucks? I dont know if it is the transmission or not. It has been recently "rebuilt" before I purchased it 4 months ago. Could that be it? Thanks.
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J and J Auto
GenII
 
3/15/2004
15:12:08
|  RE: Is this normal?
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Message:
When the O/D button is on it will not shift into
O/D turn it off than it will drop O/D
button depresed light on O/D is turned off, light
off O/D is on
Larry
J&J Auto
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99DAK
Dodge Dakota
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3/15/2004
15:53:54
| RE: Is this normal?
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Maybe you're not getting torque converter clutch lock-up.
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tony
Dodge Dakota
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3/15/2004
22:09:33
|  RE: Is this normal?
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I know my OD is on, just leave the OD button alone and make sure the light is off. I understand that you turn off the OD when you push the button. OD is always on when the truck is started. I dont think that it is the torque converter. They dont lock up in the generation I daks I think. This happens in the Gen III daks and maybe the Gen II, but I dont think the Gen I. What exactly do you mean by this? Thanks for replying...
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boguspete
Dodge Dakota
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3/16/2004
10:27:32
| RE: Is this normal?
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O/D is torque converter lockup, no matter what vehicle. there is a lockup solenoid mounted on the tranny. if they rebuild the tranny, maybe this solenoid is/was bad. Mine is a 5sp, and in 5th I run 2000 rpm's @ 60 mph. In lockup, you should be about the same rpm's.
Get the solenoid tested just to make sure it's operating properly.
Good Luck.
Chris
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tony
Dodge Dakota
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3/16/2004
22:09:18
|  RE: Is this normal?
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Thanks for replying. So the torque converter lockup in an automatic transmission is a good thing? If it doesnt lockup, then my RPM's would be higher than normal? It does shift into overdrive, and the RPM's are still too high because the torque converter may not be locking up, right? How can I test the solonoid? I will look at it sometime later. I would look at it now, but we got an unexpected 4 inches of snow lately (typical Ohio weather: sunny and 80 degrees one day, then windy and snowy at 20 degrees the next...) Thanks again. I will think about that.
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93dakman
Dodge Dakota
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3/17/2004
22:00:42
| RE: Is this normal?
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I'm not sure but I think Boguspete is completly wrong about the O/D being lockup.
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tony
Dodge Dakota
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3/18/2004
06:54:49
| RE: Is this normal?
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Then what do you think it is? I still haven't recieved enough posts to see the whole picture. Could you tell me what you think? Remember that it is an '89 dak 3.9L V6 w/ a 3 or 4 speed automatic and overdrive. When I am driving, it does shift into overdrive, and everything feels kind of natural (the shift points), but what I am concerned about is the high RPM's through the higher gears including the overdrive.
3000 RPM does not seem right when you are only going the speeds of 55 through 65. The engine can eaasily exceed 4000 RPM at speed of about 75 or so. This takes from my top end way too much. I can barely make it to 85. In addition, at 70 MPH and faster, the engine seems to vibrate a bit, especially when you reach the top speed and let off the gas to brake. This doesnt mean that I am a crazy driver, its just that when I am on the strip, the truck does not preform well.
Everything else is fine though. It runs like it is almost new, which is good for 192K miles. I am working on a high flow intake and exhaust and a 180 degree t-stat, but I am worried that those wont help when my transmission may be not working correctly. Give me some advice, please. If Larry knows a lot about gen I daks, call him, too. I know this other guy by the name of Vern. He is helpful. Anyways, thanks.
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99DAK
Dodge Dakota
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3/18/2004
12:10:59
| RE: Is this normal?
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tony-
You say that you don't think you have a lockup converter, but assume for a minute that you do. Is it possible that what you are getting is lockup, and what you're not getting is OD? If this is an electrical problem then that would better explain the high rpms. If you lose lockup I would only expect to see a 300-500 rpm increase while cruising (not accelerating) - the 3000 rpm @ 55mph sounds more like 3rd with no OD.
Just a thought.
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tony
Dodge Dakota
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3/18/2004
16:19:53
| RE: Is this normal?
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99DAK, Im sorry but I dont think that its the converter. I hear that only 1996 and newer dakotas had that. I know that it is shifting into overdrive because as I am driving down the road, I hear it shift exactly four times. Then while I am in the top gear going about fifty, I can push the overdrive button (turning on the LED light means OD is off) and the engine roars because the RPM's skyrocket to about 4500. That shows that OD may be on. My overdrive does switch on, unless the OD solonoid not only control the OD gear, but the very highest gear position before OD that I have never been at yet. I am not sure. I am not saying you are wrong, but I dont know if what you said really applies to my '89 dakota. I dont know. I am thinking about looking at the transmission to just check things out. I will check the electrical system and the solonoid to be safe, too. Thanks for helping. I appreciate it. If you find more info or if you hear anything that could help my '89 dak, post a message. Thanks again.
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93dakman
Dodge Dakota
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3/18/2004
17:54:53
| RE: Is this normal?
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Message:
Ok, Here goes.......Your transmission is a 3-Speed with electronic overdrive AND lock-up converter. The overdrive is in the tail housing of the tranny, conpletly seperate from the rest of the sun/planetary gear pack of first gear through third. When it goes into overdrive, the tranny is still in third, just the EOD (Electrinic Over-Drive)in the tail shifts.
Your transmission shifts from first to second fine, shifts second to third fine. THEN, you hear/feel the TORQUE CONVERTER LOCK-UP. It is not going into overdrive if the RPM'S are at 3000. I went out and tried my truck - 55 mph with overdrive off = 3000 RPM. 55 mph with torque converter un-locked in overdrive 2200 rpm's
I think you need to check your codes to see if it has thrown any. Try the key thing. Then, if you pull up a number 15, that means your Vehicle speed sensor is out. The VSS is located on the drivers side of the tranny on the tail. It has a speedometer cable comin out and a 2-pin plug. If you dont throw any codes then ask Larry about O/D solenoids.
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tony
Dodge Dakota
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3/18/2004
18:05:01
| RE: Is this normal?
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Wow. I feel so ignorant. Thanks! I was too skeptical, and all I was doing was hurting myself. I was too stubborn to believe you. (enough personal insults) Sorry. I see the whole picture now. I will check that out definitely. I will check the codes and the wiring down there. How stupid of me. Thanks. You were very helpful.
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