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LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/11/2002
19:52:30
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 Subject: Bernd turbo questions
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1. How much for V6 turbo and intercooler?
2. How difficult to install?
3. More or less gain then super(I would think more being that super uses the belt which slows you down a bit, right?)
4. does it improve milage?
5. Why not twin on the V6?
6. Is it true that Turbo is better for manuel and super for auto, or does it not matter that much?
7. Does it work with Jet chips?
8. What are the chances of it breaking if you do change the oil every 3000 miles?(more or less then SC)
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sicminds
Dodge Dakota
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2/11/2002
21:25:54
|  RE: Bernd turbo questions
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anyone going to resond to this?
I am curious as well about this.
A turbo kit for our trucks.
And how much it would cost.
how well do cams work with our trucks
sic
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Tom Slick
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2002
00:18:50
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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This thread should answer most of those questions:
http://www.dodgedakota.net/boards/per/3148.html
We are estimating the cost for the 3.9L single turbo kit(w/intercooler) to be around $3500, but that may be subject to change.
If you still have questions, feel free to e-mail me!
Thanks,
Tom North
Turbo Kits - SpeedTweaks, LLC
http://www.speedtweaks.net
turbokits@speedtweaks.net
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LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2002
02:32:42
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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taht thread is about 4.7s and 5.9s, how fast will it make a V6?
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Tom Slick
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2002
03:38:51
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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A 3.9L(238c.i.) engine @ 8psi boost would produce between 280 to 416hp with the midpoint being 348hp
@6psi boost: 265-379hp - midpoint 317hp
That is figured using the following calculations:
Lower value= .052 bhp/cid psi x engine cid x (boost + 14.7)
Higher value= .077 bhp/cid psi x engine cid x (boost + 14.7)
Thanks,
Tom North
Turbo Kits - SpeedTweaks, LLC
http://www.speedtweaks.net
turbokits@speedtweaks.net
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LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2002
03:52:19
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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so your saying that just putting one of these guys in my truck will make it faster then any stock truck, even the lightning. I thoought bernd said superchargers were just as good, but they only add like 60-80 hp so worst case scenario is 280!!!! wow I have got to get one of these!!!! whats the point of a supercharger if the turbo adds soooo much more.....oh damn....must start saving money....drool....pant...who cares about a V8.....ahhhhhhhhhh ok screw Jet 2
but let me get this strait, your saying minimum 90 hp gain....minimum!!!!!! and the max is what 241!!!! so turbo can add to the V6 all the hp of the 4.7 with 6 to spare!!! doesnt do as much for torque though right??? wow though
so with that my 4x4 will run like a high 13 low 14?? is this right is it really true???
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Todd W
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2002
08:34:31
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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It's also going to depend on other factors, like exhaust, heads, valve train...
I like turbos for one specific reason. Your running them off exhaust! Thats right, -waste energy-! Energy that won't get used anywhere else, just shoots on out the back of the tailpipe as pressure. A supercharger runs off the main accessory drive belt...
Ever hear of people pulling the A/C or Clutch fan and gaining HP/Torque? Same theory.
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Tom Slick
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2002
09:38:21
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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I'm estimating that you will get 300+hp out of the engine, exactly how much more just depends on your engine...as Todd W said, it depends on other things, throttle body, PCM, cam, etc.
Your 1/4 mile time will depend on the weight of your truck, too... what does it weigh? I can give you an estimate on what it should run...
Turbos are more efficient than superchargers, again, like Todd W mentioned, the turbo recovers some of the energy the engine uses to expel exhaust gas, compared to the belt on a supercharger creating a load on the crankshaft.
Thanks,
Tom North
Turbo Kits - SpeedTweaks, LLC
http://www.speedtweaks.net
turbokits@speedtweaks.net
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Montag
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2002
09:54:13
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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What about turbo lag? Correct me if I am wrong(because I am alot). But doesn't a S/C give you the power right away and a T/C take a little more time before it spools up? Which would mean that with a S/C you would have power thoughout the rpm rang and with a T/C you would have power form say 1500 rpm and up, right? But maybe the extra power would make up for it going down the track?
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Kristien
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2002
11:34:52
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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Is it better to run a S/C if you have an Automatic, just my observation but my truck a 96' 4x4 cc likes to run at about 2000 no matter what speed I am travelling, well that is until you get over 80 mph and there are no more gears. Does the auto screw up the turbo by always changing engine speed rather than a stanard where you just mat it and let the engine catch up. Sure would like to try one of these turbos!!! Damn Canadian currency though its going to cost more than a new engine up here.
Love the board, thanks for the help
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LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2002
12:13:15
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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Tom: Its a V6 4x4 CC, I think it weighs just over 4100, also i have a gibson catback and I'm definatly gonna get headers and a flowmetrics TB before the turbo. maybe msd ignition too. So what kind of 1/4 am I looking at, and any idea of 0-60?
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sicminds
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2002
12:27:24
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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Jeezz $3500.00
what about a group buy.
lol.
cause i figure you can get
that same power from a v8
totaling around 2k if you get
your parts from donar trucks.
maybe its just me or maybe its just....
sic
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sicminds
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2002
12:27:25
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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Jeezz $3500.00
what about a group buy.
lol.
cause i figure you can get
that same power from a v8
totaling around 2k if you get
your parts from donar trucks.
maybe its just me or maybe its just....
sic
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Todd W
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2002
14:34:38
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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I've got a good buddy with a Subaru WRX, those little buggers are Turbo Charged 2.0L opposing 4-cylinders and produce -darn near- 300hp stock (272 I think...). The Turbo on this thing isn't much bigger than a large coffee can...
Yes, turbo's need to 'spool up', and you also need to idle the engine for about 30sec after running it so the oil doesn't 'bake' in the Turbo's bearings (bad thing, that). Thats where this little dohicky called a Blowoff valve comes in! We installed a Blitz in the Subaru yesterday (schweet), took about an hour... mostly because one of the pipe clamps popped on us and we had to buy another (yeah, $.89).
The big issue with the Turbo's is, once they hit speed, they'll continue to spin at speed through centrifical force. Now, if you suddenly get off the gas, where's all this pressure the Turbo is making going? Right, it goes back into the turbo and slows it down (Without a blow off at all the Turbo would go BOOM! But stock units have bypass valves that dump back into the inlet or somesuch). Anyway, with a blowoff valve, it pops open at a certian pressure and exhausts the extra into the atmosphere.
If you've ever played GT3 on PS2, you know when you drive a Turbo and shift, how it goes 'PSHAW!'? Thats a blowoff valve. The Turbo's already -at- speed and ready to make boost again when you get to the next gear. :0)
Your from-a-dead-stop start time isn't going to be much better, but once you hit 2000-3000 RPM your Turbo is making boost and your haulin tail. I believe Speedtweaks is putting a nice blowoff valve on the unit when you order it. Drool.
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IntenseDak39
GenIII
2/12/2002
14:42:05
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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yeah, i had a shelby charger with a T1 worked to it's limits....not much power till about 3000 rpm and then "WHOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!"
It more than makes up for that little loss before 3000 rpms.....but the T1 didn't need a blow off because the TB sat on top of the turbo and the dodge factory turbos had coolant lines going through them so you didn't have to cool the oil down after driving.
98 RC V6 auto modifications: LOTS ! ! !
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LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2002
15:18:13
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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correct me if im wrong, but it only takes like a second or 2 before you hitt 3000 rpms in first gear, right. turbo will help ur 0-60 right????
thats actually kind of a good thing because u don't want the tires to be spinning out of control
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Todd W
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2002
15:21:14
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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Intense,
No intercooler? Intercoolers are cool, they don't cool the Turbo per-se, they cool the air coming out of the Turbo! At least, thats how it looks to me...
I agree, they really make up for their lag once they hit boost. It's just about an instantanious doubling of HP for the Subaru, probally similar for everything else. That equates to whiplash if your not prepared!
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toxic13
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2002
15:24:44
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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Just thought I'd throw this in here. Auto trannies actually work better with turbo engines because there is less loss of boost between shifts. However, I don't know how well the auto trannies in these trucks will hold up to the power.
The WRK is 227hp, the WRX STi is supposed to be somewhere around 276hp.
I have a '89 Daytona T2. Sure there is lag, but @ 18psi, when about 2700rpms rolls around, you better hold on.
Tom, just wondering, what's the CFM rating on the T04 you guys are planning on using for this kit?
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LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2002
17:25:04
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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so basically you are at normal speed until u punch it, right?
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IntenseDak39
GenIII
2/12/2002
18:37:10
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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the T1 didn't have an intercooler....the intercooler will only cool down the air charge because it fits between the turbo and the TB...the early dodge T1 had the TB before the turbo
what was cool about my shelby was it was an est. 270+ horsepower and only weighed 2000 pounds...great power to weight ratio!
98 RC V6 auto modifications: LOTS ! ! !
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Tom Slick
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2002
22:14:21
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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LI Blackdak: Let's just say that your truck weighs about 4300lb (w/you, gas, etc.)approx. 300hp at the crank would run low 14's.
The turbo kits will work fine with either a manual or automatic transmission, so don't worry.
Our turbo kits will include everything you will need, including the boost bypass valve that was mentioned earlier.
Some, if not all of the kits will come with custom turbo headers, so if you are palnning on going the turbo route, I'd put off buying headers!
$3500(still just an estimate, and subject to change) is a very reasonable price for the power increase it offers, especially compared to superchargers.
toxic13 - a can't tell you the exact CFM, but rest assured, it will work great!
I'd be glad to answer any other questions that you may have! Feel free to e-mail me if you would like!
Thanks,
Tom North
Turbo Kits - SpeedTweaks, LLC
http://www.speedtweaks.net
turbokits@speedtweaks.net
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blackhead
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2002
22:28:53
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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and when are these turbos going to be
ready for 3.9l's
saving my lunch money already
blackhead
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LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2002
23:11:12
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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oh thats good news about the headers. I guess ill just live with my truck as is till i get $3500
and then turbo ahahahahahaa
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Todd W
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2002
23:21:58
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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Blackdak,
Thats what I'm doing! Well, sort of. I plan on upgrading the TB soon, can't hurt with a Turbo. Might do the heads and valvetrain first too.
BTW, anyone have input? I'm wondering about doing a full gear timing drive with twin idlers. I know it's louder, but no streching and it would definatly -sound- cooler. :0)
Should be pretty mild, moderate cam and valve job, roller rockers, that kind of stuff. Definatly upgrading the head gaskets, even if I run stock boost it can't hurt! Going to do the ignition system too, but thats no biggie.
The Turbo and exhaust for it will be last, I think. Hopefully I'll get a good job when I graduate in a year or so!
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dakkid
Dodge Dakota
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2/13/2002
19:29:57
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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what gears would be best with the turbo also what do u need to do b4 u put it in
intake, heads, hardened seats,etc? (what to do so the engine wont blow itslef apart)
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Tom Slick
Dodge Dakota
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2/13/2002
19:55:14
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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Our kit will include everything you will need to reliably run the turbo.
It really doesn't matter what gears you have in it... I'm running 3.55 gears in my Dakota...
Thanks,
Tom North
Turbo Kits - SpeedTweaks, LLC
http://www.speedtweaks.net
turbokits@speedtweaks.net
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LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/16/2002
13:27:42
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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I've been thinking about those power increase numbers u gave...and im not sure if i really believe them. I mean going from 175 up to 280-417 is quite a jump in power. you are claiming a 60-140% power increase. on your page it says 40% increase which is like 245 hp. So your actually saying that if I put this on my truck my 1/4 will drop 3 to 4 seconds(assuming its between 17 and 18 now). the 0-60 would be something like 5 or 6 seconds...DOWN FROM 10.75!!! are these number really right??
2000 V6 4x4 CC 3.92 w/airaid and gibson catback
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jesse
Dodge Dakota
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2/17/2002
23:42:02
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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Yes I am wondering the same thing also!
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LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/18/2002
00:19:18
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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i know sounds too good to be true
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Tom Slick
Dodge Dakota
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2/19/2002
22:13:41
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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That 40% is a "conservative estimate"...
The numbers that I presented were based on formulas:
Lower value= .052 bhp/cid psi x engine cid x (boost + 14.7)
Higher value= .077 bhp/cid psi x engine cid x (boost + 14.7)
Where you're engine fits in that range depends on the volumetric efficiency of your engine. I have this as a range, not definite power results...
Here are a few things to think about:
At the same psi boost as a supercharger, the turbocharger will produce a larger power increase.
Also remember, we are talking crank horsepower.
Supercharger manufacturers advertise a 40% or more horsepower increase running 6psi boost. Turbochargers are more efficient than superchargers, meaning that they will produce more horsepower at the same boost. Plus our kits will be running intercoolers, cooling the air charge; most superchargers don't. The range I posted was at 8psi boost (our system is adjustable, approx. 6-8psi boost)
I'll have hard numbers once we get done testing, but the numbers are for real.
I'd be glad to answer any other questions that you may have.
Thanks,
Tom North
Turbo Kits - SpeedTweaks, LLC
http://www.speedtweaks.net
turbokits@speedtweaks.net
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LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/19/2002
22:53:24
| RE: Bernd turbo questions
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ok tom so 350 is reasonable amount of hp...sounds good to me ;-)
one more question, what is the point of using 6 psi boost is it harder on the engine to use more boost??
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