different synthetic oil - Dodge Dakota Forum

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achysklic Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/07/2003 08:42:07	Subject: different synthetic oil IP: Logged Message: I have seen alot of post about synthetic oils here. I have seen 2 off brands lately and wonder if anyone knows anything about them and would the be aright to run in my truck. 1) havoline synthetic 5w40 1.99 a quart 2)Rotella T Synthetic 4 quarts for 12.00 dollars If these are good synthetics then what a price difference form the big brand names. Thanks for the help
achysklic Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/07/2003 16:13:37	RE: different synthetic oil IP: Logged Message: Come guys I know you know all about sythetic's from all the post on it I really would like some imput. Thanks again
Matt Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/07/2003 17:00:30	RE: different synthetic oil IP: Logged Message: I'm surprised the Amsoil guy hasn't jumped all over this by now... Any oil can be used as long as it is the proper viscosity, and has the the API ratings called for by the OEM. Shell Rotella is great oil. It is used by many commercial truckers. I'm a trucker, and I use Mobil Delvac 1 in my 435 hp 14 liter Cummins. Delvac 1 is a synthetic 5w-40, as is the New Rotella T synthetic. Both oils are SJ rated, and have the unbelievably high detergent ratings of CH-4. Oils designed to be used in heavy duty diesels have dispersants so strong, you could probably pour asphalt into the crankcase with no ill effects... Reality? Oil is oil. There really isn't any crap out there. But I'm sure the Amsoil guy will tell us differently!
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 11/07/2003 17:15:14	Amsoil = www.american-synthetic-oil.com IP: Logged Message: First you have to let me know why you are asking about these two particular oils. Is it price, cold crank (low temperature) protection (in most cases a 5w-40 oil will not have as good of a cold cranking number as a 5w-30 oil), thermal (high temperature) protection, heat stability, shear stability, and/or service life? What vehicle do you own (engine and owners manual recommendations of oil wts.) and where do you live (climate). What is your driving style --- Normal or Severe? Havoline (owned by ChevronTexaco) is a Group III Hydrocracked Synthetic, which is nothing more than "dino" that has been thru an additional refining process. Not a "TRUE" synthetic. A TRUE Synthetic is either Group IV, Group IV, or a combination of the two. -------------------------------------------------- Sorry, I just realized it is after 5 PM and I must rush home --- Friday night :-). I will be back later this weekend with additional posts. Try and answer my questions --- and I will be better able to answer yours. Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 11/07/2003 17:19:51	Amsoil = www.american-synthetic-oil.com IP: Logged Message: Matt, You were posting the same time as me and I did not see your post until after I posted. Yep, I am always lurking and willing to help. Real Quick, and For-The Record, Delvac 1 is a great oil, and Shell Rotella is a very good oil. -------------------------------------------------- Okay, I am honestly leaving this time. Have a GREAT weekend!!! Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
Matt Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/07/2003 17:54:08	RE: different synthetic oil IP: Logged Message: I'm just teasing ya, Steve. In fact, I plan to buy Amsoil's 75W-140 gear oil for my new Dakota's differential. I'm going to wait till she has at least 1,000 miles on it. My Dakota has the towing package, and the owners manual says to go with synth 75W-140 for towing. Methinks a chrome differential cover will be nice too...
achysklic Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/07/2003 18:23:28	RE: different synthetic oil IP: Logged Message: Thanks for the replies. I have a 2000 dakota 3.9 with 25000 miles I bought from a one owner but assume it has also had dino oil in it.Price is 1 factor but not a deciding factor. I just wondered how good the 2 where cos my friend runs the rotella t in his toyota camry. I live in a screwed up climate (ohio) cold in winter hot in summer but we mostly have 2 seasons . rain and more rain. again thanks for the replies hope to here more good stuff.
Larry L Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/08/2003 19:17:44	RE: different synthetic oil IP: Logged Message: Look on the back of the bottle, if it says Texaco/Chevron on the back- it is a PAO basestock just like Amzoil. If the words Texaco/ Chevron are not there, it is a Group III basestock and is the old Havoline Synthetic. The new Havoline Synthetic is the old Chevron Synthetic which is a PAO. Yea, I know, you need a score card but I deal with this stuff every day. It is darn good stuff. If you want a reference- see your local military base- they've been using it for 40 years. Chevron was the first to commercially manufacture PAO basestocks in 1954. Standard was the first manufacturer of PAO basestocks back in 1929.
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 11/09/2003 08:18:12	Amsoil talks about Havoline & Chevron Supreme IP: Logged Message: Larry L, You are partially right but let me add: I always thought Havoline to be a very good "dino" oil, until lately when it started getting bashed because of Equilon (read below). You can blame the oil companies for the confusion. With so many changes, mergers, and acquisitions in the oil industry, it's almost impossible to keep up with who is making what and who is selling what, and very difficult to have any brand loyalty. Up until just a few years ago, you knew who you were dealing with, --- now you have no idea at all. There are three very different Havoline 5w-40's in the market place currently. One is produced by Shell and the other by Equilon --- Equilon is no longer producing (they were - pardon my French - CRAP), but some of their supply is still around (and will be for many months) --- AND THE "NEW" Havoline is (I believe) a "relabeled" Shevron Supreme. VERY CONFUSING FOR CONSUMERS. (If you recall --- as part of "the deal", the Havoline Lubricants Division was handed from Shell to Chevron/Texaco). Some of the Havoline oil at the "big box" stores is not made by Chevron/Texaco but is the old stock made by Equilon (Shell). The Flash Points, Pour Points, and Viscosity Index numbers for all the products are quite different. The $1.99 qt. is the "old stuff" (Group III dino). I have seen it in some of the "big box" stores in my area. The "NEW" Havoline reaching the stores (as stated earlier) may be a "re-labeled" Chevron Supreme product. The data sheets for both Chevron Supreme and the "latest" Havoline synthetic 5w-40 read absolutely identically ---number for number. Of at least equal interest are the respective Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS). The sheets read identically except for identifying names and catalog numbers. -------------------------------------------------- I'm still holding out (and holding my nose) on giving an opinion regarding Havoline until they figure out who is manufacturing and blending, and I see the final spec sheet and MSDS. Who knows --- by the time you read this they might have changed again. Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 11/09/2003 11:01:54	Amsoil discusses Chevron Supreme / Havoline IP: Logged Message: To add to my above comment: "Up until just a few years ago, you knew who you were dealing with, --- now you have no idea at all." Maybe this addition helps: TEXACO was "Texaco" until they murged with Shell to form Equilon. Shell sold the Texaco fuels division to Chevron but kept all the lubricant formulas and divisions. If you see Havoline with Equilon on the bottle, it is made by Shell. If you see Havoline with Chevron/Texaco on the bottle, it is made by Chevron. I believe Shell has the right to make Havoline for the next nine (9) months. What brand or name will it be a year from now? Your guess is as good as mine. Shell kept the formulas for all Texaco lubricants. They are producing the industrial oils but they are using the Shell name. They are only using the Texaco name on the Havoline products. AMOCO fuels was purchaed by BP and the lubricants division of AMOCO was purchaed by Chevron and BP/AMOCO purchaed Castrol Lubricants. Pennzoil purchased Quaker State which is soon to be purchased by Shell. -------------------------------------------------- I have also spoken with a Chevron Technician via their website and asked them if the Chevron Supreme is a 100% FULL Synthetic and if their Havoline counterpart was PAO or Group III base. Due to the confusion on the spec sheet (read below) I picked up the phone. I confirmed via telephone that Chevron/Texaco is a group III and they have no immediate plans for a 100% PAO oil. The confusion in their spec sheet states that they use 55% PAO and a 15% ester, and some Group III (hydorcracked) --- and they use the funny use of the word "or", as in stating that at any givin time they can use MORE Group III base and LESS PAO. Bottom Line --- The response was (except for the arctic grade 0w-30 oil --- ALL of the Chevron synthetic oils are Group III based (hydrocracked dino) oils, and not Group IV / Group V Full Synthetics. Therefore the "NEW" Havoline 5w-40 is a hydrocracked dino oil. Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
cbmoose Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 2/14/2004 17:36:30	RE: different synthetic oil IP: Logged Message: I have been using Delvac 1300 in my '93 3.9 for about a year now, and to me it works better than any other oil, including Mobil 1. The truck has 153K on it, and although I bought it with 68K on it, the motor still runs great. I was using 1 quart between changes, but it uses no Delvac. I change my oil every 3-4K miles, and for $6 per gallon Delvac works for me. I work in field service, and do about 30K per year, a lot of it being on the superslab. No leaks, oil pressure is great, but it's a little tough on that tiny starter on these single-digit Pennsylvania mornings.
03SXT Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 2/15/2004 23:18:10	valvoline IP: Logged Message: i personally like Valvoline, next oil change ill use the Durablend, then after that ill go to full synthetic......later....
daffydak GenIII 2/16/2004 00:46:11	RE: different synthetic oil IP: Logged Message: mobil one fan here but the hardware store down from my house is selling ams oil now so i will give it a shot on my next change oh and steven what filter do you recommend with amsoil? i always use a fram tough guard or extra guard filter will that be fine or should i use a diff brand?? thanks Dan mopar=mopower
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 2/16/2004 09:15:08	Amsoil Synthetic Motor Oil -- Retail Stores IP: Logged Message: daffydak, First let me say that MANY retail stores are now beginning to carry Amsoil Products. Why ... because customers are asking for Amsoil. Retail stores for the longest time thought that the retail buying public would not pay a premium price for a premium product. Retail stores are coming around --- and realizing that if someone pays $25k or more for a truck, or $35k or more for some SUV's and automobiles ... that these same people would be willing to pay a bit more premium synthetic oil --- for the best protection for their vehicles engines, transmissions, etc. OIL FILTERS In order of my preferences: --- Amsoil --- Baldwin --- Hastings --- Wix --- Bosch Super Premium It is okay to use any QUALITY filter with Amsoil Synthetic Motor Oils --- if you are changing your oil according to manufacturers recommendations. If you are extending your oil drains --- use a superior top quality filter. Since you are switching to Amsoil Synthetic Motor Oil why not consider our Amsoil Super Duty Oil Filters. The AMSOIL Super Duty Oil Filters (SDF) are designed to provide maximum filtration while meeting the high flow demands of modern automobiles. The AMSOIL SDF contains a special cellulose, synthetic and glass blend media that offers the best possible balance of long life, high capacity and overall efficiency. Amsoil SDF's offer all-around better filtration and protection than conventional filters. Full flow design for extended drain intervals and severe service. They contain a high-tech blended filtration media composed of cellulose, synthetic and glass fibers. The media sets our filters apart from conventional filters in capacity, efficiency and service life, and they deliver superior filtration and protection. __________________________________________________ For the record, AMSOIL SDF Oil Filters are made by Hastings, which is a subsidiary of Baldwin. Baldwin still manufactures and markets under both the Baldwin and the Hastings name (Hastings and AMSOIL are not the same filters, they are simply manfactured in the same plant in Nebraska). Baldwin representatives told me that the Amsoil SDF oil filters use a better grade of filter media, found in only VERY FEW of the Baldwin filters --- simply a matter of economics --- it costs more - and therefore the reason for the higher Amsoil Filter price (not a middleman markup). Amsoil filters are not Hastings! Some confusion surrounding this is that Amsoil also markets the Hastings brand so their dealers will have a source for EVERY filter application imaginable. Amsoil offers and sells Hastings filters but Does Not and WILL NOT sell Hastings filters for which there is an equivalent Amsoil filter. When Amsoil first went to Baldwin/Hastings with the specs for the *"then new"* Mobil 1 oil filter, Baldwin told them that they could certainly manufacture filters that could outperform it, --- simply by changing to the new media - which they did for Amsoil - which is why many feel the Amsoil Filter is superior. __________________________________________________ Other recommendations for anyone looking for a lower priced oil filter. If you're set on getting a filter in the $5 range, then Bosch Super Premium or Wix. Reasons: Top notch construction, good filtering, and good flow. (The PureOne is also in this price range, but I've got issues with restricted flow in the PureOne because of the densely packed media.) __________________________________________________ Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking the following link; __________________________________________________ Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 2/16/2004 09:18:26	Amsoil -- Manufacturers of Oil Filters IP: Logged Message: For Information Purposes: As a follow up to my last post I would like to add the following. Many Dakota owners (and others) are trying to figure out how many different oil filter manufacturers there are, and which manufacturer makes what brands. From what I can gather, here is what is out there: Honeywell - makes Fram (In Canada the Quaker State filters are Fram filters / In the USA, QS is Purolator), Pennzoil, Quaker State Arvin Meritor - makes Purolator Premium Plus, PureONE, Ford OEM, V-1 & SureFlow (Superflow?) Dana - makes Wix and Napa Gold/Silver, AC Delco DuraGuards for Canada Baldwin (Parent of Hastings) - Baldwin, Hastings, Amsoil, Casite, maybe others Champion Labs - Mobil 1, K&N, Supertech, AC Delco DuraGuards (two different types) for USA, Bosch Premium, STP, Ultraguard Gold, Deutch & Luberfiner Cummins Engine - owns Fleetguard Mann - a top quality German filter maker (for our many German Friends on this site). Please add to (or correct) this list if you have any more information on filters or filter makers. We are all here to learn, and offer advice. __________________________________________________ Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 2/16/2004 09:29:57	Amsoil Super Duty Filter = Filtration & Flow IP: Logged Message: I am posting again because it is VERY important that consumers know what they are buying. An informed consumer is the best defense against unscrupulous dealers and garages. __________________________________________________ The order of the best MEDIA in a oil filter: 1) synthetic 2) fiberglass - it is second because fiberglass has to be held together with glues and therefore decreases flows 3) cellulose - if this get water in it it will bubble up and restrict flow. a blended filtration media composed of synthetic, cellulose and fiberglass fibers are usually the best. ================================================== YOU NEED A BALANCE BETWEEN FILTRATION AND FLOW --- FILTRATION --- It seems that engine wear gets worse when there are particles above 5 micron particles not being filtered out of the system. GM has done studies where the wear became very great at around 30 microns. On the flip-side, Mobil did tests in 1995 where they ran a number of vehicles at 7.5K oil changes and 15K oil changes on filters that would have been in the 25 micron range. The vehicles went 200K with very little wear. So it would seem that filters that grab most of the 15-20 micron particles whould be OK. I know this is not very scientific. It really depends on the clearances in your engine. An engine such as my neighbors LT1, which is a small block Chevy as far as the bottom end is concerned, has large clearances so a 20 micron particle won't harm it as much as it would on a much tighter engine such as many DOHC 4 cylinder imports. So in other words, it's different in every case. -------------------------------------------------- In theory, reducing wear particles to 0 is optimum but in the real world of automobile engines it doesn't work. What good does filtering out for instance .5 (1/2) microns ... 100% of the time ... but causing wear by interupting oil flow to the bearings. __________________________________________________ If you are concerned, perform a Used Oil Analysis and see for yourself what is the PPM range in your engine ... for all the major metals (iron, lead, alumn, copper). __________________________________________________ --- FLOW --- FLOW IS ... AS IMPORTANT, maybe ... MORE IMPORTANT ... than FILTRATION. Many filters have good filtration and terrible flow. __________________________________________________ The AMSOIL Super Duty Oil Filter (SDF) is designed to provide maximum filtration while meeting the high flow demands of modern automobiles. The AMSOIL SDF contains a special cellulose, synthetic and glass blend media that offers the best possible balance of long life, high capacity and overall efficiency. The AMSOIL SDF has a lofted fiber depth-type media that traps dirt throughout its entire thickness for exceptional filtering efficiency. It keeps oil clean and free of wear-causing contaminants. The AMSOIL SDF has a heavy-duty case of drawn steel. The case is double-crimped at the base with rolled-under seaming to withstand extreme pressure surges and road shocks. The AMSOIL SDF has an anti-drainback valve that keeps trapped contaminants in the filter when the engine is not running. __________________________________________________ Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking the following link: __________________________________________________ Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
daffydak GenIII 2/16/2004 10:13:51	RE: different synthetic oil IP: Logged Message: wow i didnt know that amsoil made filters too sweet :-) sure i will use the matching filter with my oil so i can get the best out of the amsoil, the sdf sounds right up my alley. Thanks Dan mopar=mopower
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 2/16/2004 11:58:45	Amsoil Preferred Customer vs. Retail Prices IP: Logged Message: Thanks Dan, Finding Amsoil --- retail in a store --- is not always easy since Amsoil has no interest in competing for the "big-box" shelf space (i.e. Walmart), but specialty "Performance" stores or independent stores often carry premium Amsoil products. My cousin owns two NAPA stores and one of his biggest displays is Amsoil. Amsoil is usually purchased through an Independent Amsoil Dealer such as myself (via catalog or their website) but if anyone wants to find Amsoil on-the-shelf in their area ... one way is to check the Yellow Pages under automotive lubrication and/or oil. Word-Of-Mouth at a local track may also help you find Amsoil Products in a local store. __________________________________________________ THE BENEFITS OF ORDERING THRU AN AMSOIL CATALOG The benefits of ordering via catalog --- you can become an Amsoil Preferred Customer and save between 20% and 25% off retail prices --- across the board on all retail prices ... basically buying at the same wholesale prices as an Amsoil Dealer. Remember, Amsoil is more than Synthetic Oil. We carry a full line of air filters, oil filters, Bosch wipers, Bosch plugs and wire sets --- and we also have the Altrum Division. This is a savings that you can not get when buying retail. __________________________________________________ Does anyone on www.DodgeDakotas.com own a Retail Store, or work in a retail store --- that would be interested in carrying Amsoil products on-the-shelf? Amsoil has a Retail-On-The-Shelf Program. Retail-On-The-Shelf Accounts can be one of the following: - Auto Parts Stores - Auto Service Centers - Quick Lubes - Hardware Stores - Department Stores - Any Establishment Where Automotive Products Are Purchased Retail establishments that qualify as an Amsoil Retail-On-The-Shelf Account purchase products at competitive retailers' wholesale prices and resell at a generous profit. Qualifying factors are: You must be a retail seller, either of products exclusively or of products to a service. The business must be in a business location, with regular hours. Home businesses do not qualify. Amsoil Products cannot be the primary product or service of the business. Discount Programs If your order totals $3000- $5999 there is a 50% discount on freight. If your order is $6000 or over freight is free. In addition to buying below Dealer wholesale a Retail account will qualify for additionl credit after the first year as an AMSOIL reseller.This credit can be used for qualifying advertising or to purchase AMSOIL point of purchase materials and promotional items. After one year: 3% Credit on every order $0-$7,499 purchased annually. 4% Credit on every order $7,500-$24,999 purchased annually. 5% Credit on every order $25,000 or more purchased annually. Based on the previous year sales Note: The Amsoil Retail-On-The-Shelf Account is available only in the United States, Canada, Puerto Rico, and New Zealand. If you are interested in selling Amsoil Products Retail-On-The-Shelf, or know someone who migh be, please click the following link and request information, or send me an Email by clicking on the email link (the little envelope under my AmsoilSponsor Member Name). __________ __________ Thank You, Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 2/16/2004 12:16:07	Amsoil Preferred Customer = Wholesale Prices IP: Logged Message: Dan, Amsoil Preferred Customers If you (and/or your family and friends) think that you will be buying $100 (or more) of Amsoil Products annually, $20 per year will buy you "Amsoil Preferred Customer" --- giving you wholesale buying status --- ( or $10 for a six month trial ) --- whereby you will save up to 25% off retail, and you will save money. Combine orders with family and friends and save $$$. I do understand that some customers prefer the convenience of buying local --- if that is your choice it is okay. Just offering you a money saving alternative. As an Amsoil Preferred Customer you can order direct from the Amsoil catalog using a toll-free #, or from my SECURE website. However, even without "Preferred Customer" status, you can order direct from the Amsoil catalog using a toll-free #, or from my SECURE website, at retail prices --- and UPS will deliver right to your door. Amsoil Preferred Customers also receive a FREE subscription to Amsoil Action News, a monthly magazine devoted to Product and Industry news. As stated earlier: 2) Amsoil is more than Synthetic Motor Oil. We also carry: - Amsoil Air Filters - Amsoil Oil Filters - Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF - Amsoil Gear Lube - Two-Cycle Motor Oils - Greases - Hydraulic Oils - Compressor Oils - Chain and Gear oils - Fuel Additives, Coolants, Engine Cleaners - Automotive Appearance Products ... and ... - Hastings Filters - BOSCH Plugs, Wire Sets, and Wiper Blades 3) Amsoil also has the Altrum Division which includes: - AGGRAND Organic Fertilizer - Altrum Vitamins and Nutritional Supplements - Water Filtration - Detergents ...all of which you can order at a discount with the SAME "Preferred Customer" status. __________________________________________________ Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
cbmoose Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 2/16/2004 19:51:38	RE: different synthetic oil IP: Logged Message: I use Fram filters because they have the toughgrip surface. The bottom line is that if you change your oil and filter religiously every 3-4K miles you will be doing your engine a world of good. That's never changed in the 40+years I've been around car engines.
wtf Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 2/16/2004 21:43:48	RE: different synthetic oil IP: Logged Message: cbmoose do your homework. engines are different today. p. s. FRAM SUX (do a search)
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