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reesa
Dodge Dakota
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8/13/2003
08:30:53
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 Subject: Help! Truck won't start!
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Hi, we have a '94 Dodge Dakota V6 3.9L 2x2. The truck won't start (this is a first in about 10 years). First there was no spark to the coil. So we changed it. Then it still didn't run so we changed the distributer cap, spark plugs, wires, and camshaft sensor. Now it seems to want to start more than before. But now the fuel pump doesn't engage. But it was kicking on before. The battery is just about drained. We haven't tried to jump it yet because the fuel pump isn't going on. The repair manual says, "The auto shutdown relay must receive a tachometer signal from the distributor in order to for the fuel pump power circuit to be energized." Could it be the way the distributor cap and/or camshaft sensor was installed is keeping the fuel pump from engaging? Thanks!
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reesa
Dodge Dakota
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8/13/2003
08:35:16
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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I forgot to mention the fan high setting doesn't work anymore and the plug for the high setting is melted. Low and medium work. This happened before we changed the coil. Thanks Again!
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whitedakota2
Dodge Dakota
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8/13/2003
10:23:32
|  RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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The fuel pump should cycle when the key is turned on. The ASD circuit will shutdown after that and then not activate if those conditions are not meant.
Just turn the key on but do not start it. Listen for the pump to cycle. Low voltage will keep it from starting as well so a jump may be needed.
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reesa
Dodge Dakota
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8/13/2003
11:44:33
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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Thanks I hope that's it. It really sounds like it wants to start now. Will definately try to give it a jump tonight! Thanks Again!
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reesa
Dodge Dakota
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8/13/2003
17:18:51
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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Ok fuel pump still isn't coming on at all. It's not making the "whooooor" sound it usually does. Any suggestions?
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Shank
GenII
8/13/2003
19:49:04
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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I've been told...
If fuel pump doesn't kick in the computer will not allow any spark.
Have you tried the Distributor pick-up plate? It's the black plate in the bottom of the distributor below the rotor buttom.
Try resetting your computer. remove the Neg terminal, Hold key to the start position for about 30 sec, release. Hook terminal back up. Let charge for a few seconds and then try to start. This worked for me, Hope it will for you also.
Good luck,
Shank
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reesa
Dodge Dakota
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8/14/2003
08:29:45
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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We did change the pickup plate. But it had a few scratches in it (the new one) so we gonna return it today and try another one. Maybe it was defective? But we'll try resetting the computer first. I hope it works too! Thanks!
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whitedakota2
Dodge Dakota
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8/14/2003
11:46:36
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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The fuel pump should run on the first turn of the key no matter what. The ASD circuit is activated for a short time on first turn of the key. It then goes off and will not activate after that unless the truck starts. So if the pump doesn't run during that time, then there is a bad pump or something in the pump circuit that has failed. Check to see if you get power to the pump (when the key is first turned on) and it has a good ground. If so, then it is the pump. If not, then check those circuits to find out why they failed.
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JKnPA
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2003
15:49:09
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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Reesa,
Did you fix your problem???
Just curious in case I have the same problem. I hope its not the fuel pump.
Good luck.....
JKnPA...........96 dakota
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reesa
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2003
17:01:23
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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Whitedakota2,
How do I check to see if I'm getting power to the pump do I have to take out the gas tank or is there an easier way? What circuits do I need to check? Can I test them with a test light or do I need a certain type of machine?
JKnPA...didn't get it fixed but still trying. Will post with the final outcome, thanks!
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whitedakota2
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2003
20:24:37
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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Don't know which wire it is but in the harness to the tank should be wires for the pump power, fuel gauge and ground. A test light should do the job fine. You need to see if the pump gets power when the key is first turned on. Also there needs to be a good ground circuit. See if you can get a wiring diagram, if not I can get one and look it up. Maybe someone on this forum knows already.
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whitedakota2
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2003
20:32:01
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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Hey one more trick you can try, sometimes the pumps stick when they get old so try this. With someone in the truck cranking the starter, take a dead blow hammer or wood mallet (no metal hammers) and hit the center of the bottom of the tank a few times. This sometimes jars the pump loose and it will run. If so, buy a pump asap. Good luck.
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JKnPA
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2003
20:37:12
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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Reesa,
If you have the Haynes manual.....look on page 12-31. It shows the elec. wiring for a MPI fuel injection system. There is an ASD relay and a Fuel Pump relay. The output of the fuel pump relay goes to the fuel pump.
There is also an elec. wiring diagram for the TBI fuel injection system. I don't know which system is in your truck.......but maybe you could look for these relays and check the wiring at the relays. I would also check your fuses......maybe you have a blown fuse from a previous problem.
If you need a multi-meter for voltage/resistance checks.......Radio Shack has them.
good luck.....
JKnPA
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smarterthenu
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2003
23:49:26
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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once again shank has proven his total lack of knowledge on the matter. just because you are a member does not make you knowledgeable.
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GB2000
Dodge Dakota
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8/16/2003
02:55:33
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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So "smarterthEnu,"
Besides not spelling your name right, what other useful information have YOU provided?
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reesa
Dodge Dakota
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8/16/2003
08:46:21
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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Thanks whitedakota2 and JKnPA, I do have the Haynes manual. It's the MPI. Ok gonna give it a try. Will let you know what happens. Thanks Again!
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JKnPA
Dodge Dakota
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8/16/2003
15:31:42
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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Reesa,
The ASD & FP relays are in the "PDC" box near the left fender ( drivers side) in the engine compartment. When you take the cover off....they will be listed, so you know which is which. Also check the fuses there. I have 12volts on the relay socket pin coming thru the ASD fuse( 30amp/orange). I believe the 12v. is at "A14" on the wiring diagram on pg. 12-31. The socket pin will match-up with the relay pin 30. If you remove that fuse(ASD).....you will lose the 12v.
Pins 30 and 87 are the contact pins, and pins 85 & 86 are the relay coil pins. You can check the relays........the relay coil should have a resistance of approximately 100 ohms. The contact pins 30& 87 should be open. All the relays are similar. I tried to trace A14 to its source, but I couldn't find it. The Haynes manual says see sheet 6......???? I would say it goes back to the battery thru that fuse in the PDC.
I would check this area before fooling with the fuel tank. The elec. connector is sitting on top of the tank........ ugh!
I hope I didn't lose you.
JK
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Reesa
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2003
07:16:16
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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Thank You JK that really helps. I'll keep you posted!
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JKnPA
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2003
07:25:11
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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Perhaps part of the problem is a result of your 'high fan" problem. Did you find out why that happen? You must have blown a fuse and have a 'short" somewhere. The knob melted???
* you must have some fuses blown. You can check them visually to see if the metal link melted.
JK
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JKnPA
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2003
07:30:30
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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Perhaps part of the problem is a result of your 'high fan" problem. Did you find out why that happen? You must have blown a fuse and have a 'short" somewhere. The plug melted???
* you must have some fuses blown. You can check them visually to see if the metal link melted.
* edited
JK
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JKnPA
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2003
09:10:42
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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Reesa,
I just found this tech. article about 'Dodge Dakota 91-95-no start,intermittent stalling" at www.smpcorp.com........look under "tech tips" for the Spring 2000. I'll try to paste the link; not sure if it will work.
It talks about the 12v. to the ASD & Fuel Pump relays supplied thru that 30amp fuse. It also mentions a splice "S115", which may be corroded......which might be the source of the problem.
http://www.smpcorp.com/download/view/Prodinfonews.asp
JK
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smarterthenu
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2003
10:31:38
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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GB2000, that is the way my name is spelled on my birth certificate, so being smarterthenu it is spelled right. The usefull information that I provided is that shank's answer is incorrect, as usual! therefore his comment is to be disregarded, thus avoiding wasting time persueing the wrong course of action.
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GB2000
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2003
10:54:03
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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My god... I hope when they dumped me into general English this year, you were the lucky one who got bumped into the harder English class in my place. You sure need it.
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BillH
Dodge Dakota
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8/18/2003
08:29:33
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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Ok, I just went through this and had to replace my fuel pump on my 94 3.7 MPI. Here's how I isolated the fuel pump problem. First obtain a fuel pressure guage and connect it to the connector on the fuel rail. Next remove the fuel pump relay. There are five pins on the relay, we are only concerned with the top and bottom pins. The top wire is green/black (goes to pump) and the bottom is red/white (12V). Get a piece of wire and jump these two wires together. If the pump is working the fuel pressure guage will come up to 40 lbs. +/- and your problem is elsewhere. If not, you either have a bad pump or something wrong in the circuit from the relay back to the pump and then on to ground. If you must trace the grn/blk wire, it runs from the relay to the large square connector on the firewall next to the brake master cylinder. The wire then comes back through the firewall in a smaller bundle next to the previous connector and passes through a second connector mounted on top of the left wheel well under the master cylinder. It then goes down underneath and runs along the left chassis frame until it gets to the fuel pump. Remove the connector from the fuel pump. You must access the connector from the hand-hole on the wright side of the tank (small hands work best). Once the plug is removed, jump the wires again at the relay connector to get 12V to the pump connector and check with a test light or a meter. If 12V gets to this point, check the ground side of the pump by following the black wire at the pump connector(there are two black wires but they are joined together) back to where it connects to the chassis on the left firewall directly behind the winshield washer tank. If you have good continuity to the pump connector and a good return (ground) path you have my simpathy as you have a bad fuel pump. Hope this helps you out.
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JKnPA
Dodge Dakota
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8/18/2003
16:06:18
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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Bill,
Ok. So you and Reesa are talking about the same truck.......right?.
I followed the wire from the fuel pump( also bundled with the rear light wires) back to the firewall; I was surprised it didn't go directly to the fuel relay( PDC). Then i traced the PDC bundle and part of it went back thru the firewall. So, I concluded the fuel pump relay goes back inside the truck ( maybe to the fuse panel) then back out to the fuel pump.
This is the same path you stated. This is why you need the 'exact manual' when worhing on your vehicle.
Is there a fuse ( on the fuse pane,under the dash) between the fuel pump relay and the fuel pump???
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reesa
Dodge Dakota
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8/18/2003
19:38:27
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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Would it be easier if I just took off the bed and checked for 12V at the fuel pump? This way if I do end up having to change it can I change the pump without having to drop the gas tank? Cause with my luck it's most likely a bad pump. I bought this truck new and never had a problem with it, and all in the same week I blew a lower ball joint on the driver's side, lost spark and maybe a fuel pump. I'm not having a good week.
P.S.---->Does anyone know how to get the brake like to go off.
Changed the sensor...
Light still stayed on...
Found someone to inspect it for me with the light on...
Hit a deer, light went out...
One month before inspection is up light came back on.
Is there a way to get the light to go out without hitting another deer??????? :)
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BillH
Dodge Dakota
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8/18/2003
22:26:16
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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You're right about the grn/blk pump wire taking a meandering route. It does go inside of the truck but then comes right back out again. Not sure why Dodge designed it that way. The circuit is fused but not at the fuse block under the dash. It is fused on the hot (red/wht) side of the circuit at the pdc (fuse "D" 30 amp). This leg also is the power source for the computer. It just splits after the fuse and one leg goes to the computer while the other goes to the fuel pump relay.
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BillH
Dodge Dakota
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8/18/2003
22:30:20
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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Hmmmm....Hadn't considered removing the bed to get at the pump. Not sure how difficult that would be but I think that removal of the bed would give you easy access to the top of the fuel tank and the pump.
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GB2000
Dodge Dakota
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8/19/2003
09:51:33
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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Bed removal from what I was told:
Easy
6 bolts
Lifts right off
Dunno if that's right or not...just what I was told when I spun out and messed up the side. A friend of my grandpa's who owns a muffler shop recommended trying to find a whole new bed from a scrap yard and told us that's all we'd have to do.
Josh
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ric6312
Dodge Dakota
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8/19/2003
11:58:23
| RE: Help! Truck won't start!
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just buy a new pump and put it on,,99% of the time its a bad fuel pump..fuel pumps have a relay but if it goes bad there is a back up relay that kicks in to make sure a 10.00 relay doesnt leave you walking..most times it somthing like the horn relay or wiper relay that kicks in to act as the fuel pump relay..believe me, what i say is true.
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JKnPA
Dodge Dakota
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8/19/2003
13:50:31
| Ric6312...........what other relay??
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My manual (Haynes) shows only the fuel pump relay going to the pump. Tell me where........what manual or elec. print shows more than one relay going to the pump???
So far Reesa hasn't said anything about the relay,fuses, or fuel pump wiring. I do the easy things first......I can't imagine taking the truck bed off is an easy task........can you say 'rusty bolts", "liquid wrench" and "HELP" ???
The 'fuel pressure test" Bill mentioned seems like a good test...if you have the tool..
JK..........@ elec. technician
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