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Mar
Dodge Dakota
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7/30/2003
07:03:30
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 Subject: Seal replacements not working
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I just had the rear seal in the transmission and transfer case replaced at a local garage. The first time he did the work it ended up leaking worse than when I first discovered the problem. I took the truck back and he replaced the seals again and it still appears to be leaking. The garage is at a loss, but said to bring it back in and they will redo it again.
Not sure what is wrong and why all the problems with replacing the seals. Garage told me they are spring loaded and are tricky to replace. Does anyone have any advice on what may be wrong??
Truck is a 1994 V6 automatic. Everything is stock.
Appreciate any suggestions.
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Jon
Dodge Dakota
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7/30/2003
07:30:35
|  RE: Seal replacements not working
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All seals are "spring loaded" but there not very tricky. If the guy has been working on cars for more than a few months i'll assume that he's installing them properly, so one thing to look for is to make sure the part of the driveshaft that goes through the seal isn't scored or excessively worn. If it has any scratches on it that can be felt by your fingernail then it will tear up the new seal.
-Jon
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
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7/30/2003
08:14:34
| RE: Seal replacements not working
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Thanks. This guy has been in business for at least 20 yrs so I know he has plenty experience. The seal that he replaced that are leaking are the ones up inside the transfer case where the transmission bolts on.There is a little vent hole at the bottom of the case that drips oil out. Only seems to do it after I drive. Setting it appears to be fine. (hot or cold)
He said he uses a driver tool to install them but sometimes they go in wrong. ????? I am at a loss and have been shi_tting around with this for a month.
Appreciate your help
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Jon
Dodge Dakota
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7/30/2003
19:09:06
| RE: Seal replacements not working
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It's hard to say what the problem would be without seeing whick seal it is, but heres another theory. I wonder if there is a vent thats clogged thats letting pressure build up inside when it gets hot, which is causing oil to be forced out the seals?? I'm not real familier with dodge transfer cases but i see this almost weekly on rear axles. The vents rust up and the axle seals blow out, you end up with gear oil all over your rear brakes.
-Jon
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Shank
GenII
7/30/2003
19:33:12
| RE: Seal replacements not working
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I Just replaced the seals on mine when I rebuilt the tranny, $6 for tranny output seal, $7.50 for the xfer case input seal.
Where do you live, What year/model tranny do you have?
I had to go to a tranny shop to find the right seal, couldn't get it at O'Reilly or Autozone. NAPA Didn't even have a clue, the guy behind the counter had this blank look on his face and after 30 min of watching him flig thru catelogs and bringing me the wrong parts I finally walked out.
The Guy at the tranny shop said it's almost impossible to find the seal and he had to order them by bulk. Had about 10 left. I used a small brass hammer and tapped the seal in, no problems.
If your'e in the Central TX area I could show you how to DIY in about 1 hr.
Shank
If it don't work hit it with a hammer, Still don't werk? GET A BIGGER HAMMER!
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
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7/31/2003
07:26:37
| RE: Seal replacements not working
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Message:
Thanks Jon, I will say something to the garage about the vent and pressure building up. The second time he replaced them, he did say it was the seal in the transfer case end that was leaking.
Shank, I appreciate your offer but I am from Pa.
I have no idea what transmission is in my truck. The most I know is it's a 1994 V6 automatic. When it comes to this kind of mechnical work, I am at a total loss. How can I tell the transmission type??
The garage is willing to keep trying to make it right but after a month, it's getting very frustrating.
Thanks guys for the replies!
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dcxer
Dodge Dakota
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7/31/2003
12:12:00
| RE: Seal replacements not working
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Sounds like the bushing in the case that supports the yoke of the drive shaft is worn out.Check the yoke for wear also.
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Shank
GenII
7/31/2003
22:22:02
| RE: Seal replacements not working
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When you remove the transfer case you will check the shaft for wear. If your sure that the transfer case is is the culprit, there is a vent tube on top, it will vent the pressure build-up when the transfer case gets warm. very good chance this is plugged. Also the possibility that they are over-filling and the excess is causing the leakage. ( I just noticed Jon said this already)
Park your truck on flat ground and crawl under your truck (Plz set the e-brake) look on the back of the transfer cases and there will be 2 identical plugs, one on bottom and 1 in the middle. Remove the 1 in the middle. Will take either a large Allen wrench or a 3/8 Drive extension. ATF+3 transmission fluid should be filled to the bottom of the plug.
If it's overfilled the excess will start spilling onto the ground. If none comes out, stick your finger in the hole and try to feel for fluid. If it's low, refill as necessary. If it's pretty close and you have lost lots of fluid then the culprit is the tranny seal & not the transfer case seal.
To figure out which tranny you have, jack the driver side up and brace it with a jackstand (optional). Crawl under your truck, on the driver side middle of the transmission you will see all your shift linkage. There will be a round 3 wire plug going into the side at a 45Deg angle, that is the neutral/back-up switch. Above that behind the linkage is a plug going down into the tranny. pull that plug.
If that plug is Tan plastic Oval shaped with 3 wires, it's the A500 (Hydraulic). If it's black round plug with (I think) 5 wires, you have the A518 (Electronic). I have the A500 in the '93 & I pulled an A518 out of a '95. Not sure which year they made the switch.
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1)Check the fluid level in your transfer case.
2)Figure out which transmission you have.
3)Get back with us for further help....
Will check often,
Shank
If it don't work hit it with a hammer, Still don't werk? GET A BIGGER HAMMER!
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
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8/01/2003
08:14:06
| RE: Seal replacements not working
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Message:
Shank,
Thanks for such a detailed explanation of what I need to do. I called the garage yesterday to take it back in and he's telling me to run it for a few days to be sure the fluid that is coming out isnt what is left over in the two cases. (Said they didnt wipe it out) So this will give me some time to perform the checks you described for me to do. I'm not real thrilled about running it until I check the transfer case fluid level. I found the fill plug on the transfer case but do not have that big of a socket or wrench to fit. What the heck size is that plug? I have a 1 1/4 and an inch and 1/8 and neither fit. 1/1/4 is too big and 1 1/8 is too small.
Today it's raining here so this will give me some time to find the right size wrench or socket.
I appreciate your help with this! I will let you know how I make out as soon as it stops raining enough for me to crawl underneath and verify the tranny type.
Thanks again for your help.
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Shank
GenII
8/01/2003
22:51:58
| RE: Seal replacements not working
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Shouldn't be a big socket. Mine took a large allen wrench.
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
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8/03/2003
20:05:07
| RE: Seal replacements not working
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Yes, it's a BIG plug type. ( 1 5/16 so I am told) I just dropped the truck off at the garage for them to begin work first thing in the am. I will call and talk over with them the things you said. I keep thinking it's the seal itself. I talked to one guy at the garage and they did clean the vent on the top of the transfer case the second time it was in......I sure hope it's not a hair line crack in the transfer case...but at this point I am thinking almost anything.
It has been storming and raining here all weekend so I was unable to pull the plug on the tranny to let you know for sure what transmission I have.
I will keep you posted. Thanks again!
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Shank
GenII
8/03/2003
21:48:23
| RE: Seal replacements not working
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Message:
I just checked my spare in the garage. Large Crescent wrench should do it.
Gluk
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
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8/04/2003
21:10:15
| RE: Seal replacements not working
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Message:
Shank,
The garage did not get my truck done today.I did get to talk to the mechanic. He knew about the vent on the transfer and said that was the problem the second time. I asked him where he bought the seals at and he said they are from the dodge dealer. He also told me it was the seal in the transfer case that was leaking again. He wanted to keep it a day longer which is fine with me as long as it's fixed for good this time!
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Rooster
Dodge Dakota
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8/04/2003
23:43:06
| RE: Seal replacements not working
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Go to someone that is good at it so they can pick out the exact problem.
Bring it back once was a good idea, but three times is nuts.
Why try the same guy over and over expecting different resluts.
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
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8/05/2003
07:55:24
| RE: Seal replacements not working
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Rooster,
I agree with you.........but I was just recently laid off from a job of 23 yrs and this guy is not recharging me. I paid once and that was hard enough to come up with the money...so at this point I really do not have much of a choice. If he doesnt fix it for good, I will request my money back so then I can go to another place. I really hate being in this situation.
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
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8/09/2003
08:04:14
|  RE: Seal replacements not working
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Message:
Shank,
Just got my truck back last night. I took it for a long run and to my surprise the leak appears to have stopped!! I have a question though. It appears he used some black gasket sealer around the case. My question is, if it's still leaking on the inside and the "black stuff" is acting as a band-aid will it eventually leak or is this even possible to use anything to stop oil from leaking?? I am so skeptical at this point and welcome any remarks!!
Thanks again for all your advice!
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Jon
Dodge Dakota
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8/09/2003
23:25:55
| RE: Seal replacements not working
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Sounds like he used some silicone sealer to seal it up. This is a good way to stop leaks if you have a gasket or seal that won't seal correctly due to imperfections in the metal sealing surface. But like you said, hopefully he used it to fix the leak and not to hide it by trapping everything inside.
-Jon
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
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8/10/2003
09:15:46
| RE: Seal replacements not working
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The more I think about this, the more I am worried about what is going to happen once the case(s) fill with fluid. I am sure it's a band-aid job. What seal will this cause to blow??? Wont it back up somewhere??? If so, where?
Appreciate any advice. I am calling him Monday to voice my concern because logically it sounds like I will have issues down the road.......I'm not real clear what the issues maybe...but I think there will be problems....and of course it will be a new issue so then he can charge me.
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Shank
GenII
8/10/2003
10:14:54
| RE: Seal replacements not working
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Message:
he put the Black RTV Sealer between your tranny and transfer case?
How much did he charge you for this?
YES, if that's what was done, YES it's a bandaid.
There is a notch cut into the case of the tranny to act as a drain to let you know when the seals gone bad.
If that's done & your tranny is leaking, it will fill the cavity between the two and since it cant drain it will put pressure on the transfer case input seal until it forces fluid out of the tranny into the transfer case, overfilling the transfer case.
If it's the transfer case seal leaking it will do the opposite and it's a whole lot easier to keep adding fluid to the tranny than to keep adding fluid to the transfer case.
If I did this as a temporary fix I would live with it & keep an eye on my fluids, If I actually paid $$$ for somebody to fix it I would HAVE THEM FIX IT!
There is no gasket between the two, there is a Tranny output seal that keeps fluid in the tranny and there is a transfer case Input shaft seal that keeps fluid in the transfer case.
Good Luck,
Shank
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
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8/10/2003
11:43:19
| RE: Seal replacements not working
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Message:
Shank,
Yes, he used the Black RTV stuff and completely sealed the case. (including the vent hole at the bottom) He claims the transfer case input seal was the one that was leaking.....so just to clairify what I think you're saying is if the transfer is the one that is leaking, it will put pressure on the transmission seal and blow the fluid into the tranny, draining the transfer of it's fluid?
The initial job was $300.00. Each time he tried to fix it he did not recharge me. I think he just got sick of losing money each time and decided to Band-Aid it.
This really has me upset! Thanks so much for your help and advice!
He will be receiving a call tomorrow....better yet, I just may have to drive in and talk to him face to face. I am sure he's NOT going to want to see me or tear it down again. It's clear he cant fix it right...so now I am going to want my money back. THANKS AGAIN!
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Shank
GenII
8/13/2003
20:39:07
| RE: Seal replacements not working
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If it's the Transfer case there's only approx 1Qt of fluid in there. Did you get a chance to check the fluid level before he did this?
Keep an eye on it.
Shank
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
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8/23/2003
07:57:58
| RE: Seal replacements not working
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Message:
Shank,
No. I didnt get to check it before I took it back into him. I have checked it since and it appears to be ok. I talked with Brenner Dodge and they said they do not see a problem with it. They also said this use to be all one peice and those seals are only used as plugs to seal off the fluid and if they leak and the case is sealed, there would not be any problems.......I'm not sure what to think. I've been running it every day and so far everything has been fine. They both said there will not be any pressure build up due to the cases being vented....what do you think???
Mar
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Shank
GenII
8/24/2003
23:08:01
| RE: Seal replacements not working
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If the cases were vented properly you wouldn't have had the leak to begin with unless the seals completely disentigrated. Personally I would run with it & check fluid levels at least once every 2 weeks, especially your transfer case.
I've got a feeling the culprit is going to be your tranny and every time you pull the upper plug on the transfer case it's going to be overful.
If you have Acrobat reader this is an intersting site for tranny rebuilders. There is an Orifice screen on your OD housing that sits at the 5 o'clock position. It's a tiny screen that slows the flow of excess fluid from your OD Clutch pack back into the pan. If this is plugged or has debris against it that slows flow that's where your pressure will build. The tail section of the tranny is not vented. (page 9)
http://www.transtec.com/rebuilder_news/3rd_q93r-n.pdf
Just keep an eye on it,
Shank
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