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Butchnut
Dodge Dakota
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5/26/2003
07:38:34
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 Subject: cam timing? please respond ASAP?
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Ok here's the prob. My '88 V6 Dak's timing chain was shot and jumped at least one tooth. Probably more. It had about 1/2" of slack. Anyway I got the number one piston at TDC before pulling the gears and chain off and the rotor is pointing at the #1 plug wire on the distributor. But when I went to install the new Edelbrock set the cam timing mark is nowhere near being in alignment with the crank timing mark, which is in correct alignment. So how do I get the cam timing in the right position? I know I'll have to turn the cam. But which valves should be open or closed? There must be an easy way to figure this out, but I don't know what it is. Thanks for any help in advance.
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Jon
Dodge Dakota
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5/26/2003
10:01:29
|  RE: cam timing? please respond ASAP?
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IF the #1 cyl is at TDC then the valves for #1 cyl should be closed. If you line up the marks all the valves should be in the right place.
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FazDak
GenII
5/26/2003
11:23:28
| RE: cam timing? please respond ASAP?
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Put your stock gears and chain back on with the dots in proper alignment (cam gear dot down and crank gear dot up), slip ballancer back on and see if the timing mark is where TDC is on the timing cover. If your dist rotor is on #1, your #1 piston is TDC, your ballancer timing mark aligns with TDC mark on cover and they still dont line up, then you have a new chain and gear set made for something else, what I dunno as most all small block and V6 DC's are the same.
Also...does the crank gear have 3 or more different keyways? if so you have a set than can do advance and retard, in that case you just need to find a dot on a key way and a small dot near the teeth, put the keyway with the dot on, then the dot on the teeth area should be straight up.
Good luck
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Butchnut
Dodge Dakota
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5/26/2003
12:03:25
| RE: cam timing? please respond ASAP?
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Ok, I had already Did as you said FazDak. Put the old gears and chain back on and rotated the crank 360 degrees. Now the timing marks line up perfectly but the rotor is pointing at the #4 cylinder on the distributor cap. Both keyways also line up perfectly with how they are shown in the Haynes manual. That would seem to tell me that the cam is in time? Also the #4 cyl. is at TDC as well. The strange thing is that the Haynes manual in the timing chain removal and installation section says that the #4 had to be at TDC, but in the overhaul section where it explains how to determine TDC it has #1 at TDC. Yeah I have the gear w/3 keyways. But I'm using the timing marks or dots as you suggest. Turned 360 deg. everything lines up perfectly with the new set. But whats the deal with the rotor pointing at the #4 cyl. on the dist. cap? BTW the set I pulled off was dbl. roller as well. Could someone have messed this up on a previous installation? I doubt that the dbl. roller came stock on an '88.
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Butchnut
Dodge Dakota
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5/26/2003
19:51:46
| RE: cam timing? please respond ASAP?
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Well guys, what should I do? Go ahead and button it up the way it is? Put it on the same way as the old one was on? After all the truck was running ok, but the idle was a little rough.
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FazDak
GenII
5/26/2003
20:27:49
| RE: cam timing? please respond ASAP?
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Reread my first reply well.
With a "stock replacement" chain and sprocket set you will have to have #1 cyl up, rotor on #1 and ballancer timing mark on TDC (the way it realates to the timing chaning cover mark), if you dont have all three of these something is wrong.
First off, stop reading a Haynes and either listen to me or go to DC dealer and get a real manual.
you say you had a "double roller" already? That means you had 2 sets of chains and seperate teath for each, not one wide tooth covering the full width of the chain? Stock look double roller because there pretty wide, way wider than old school engines.
Anyway....I'll say it once again.....put the stock chain and gears on so that the DOTS (not the keyways) line up and at that point you need #1cyl and rotor to be in also. Do whatever it is you have to do to make these three things correct, as I said with your STOCK stuff.
If you get thoes 3 things right and the timming set is for your application you should be on track.
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Butchnut
Dodge Dakota
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5/26/2003
22:08:58
| RE: cam timing? please respond ASAP?
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Well something isn't right then. Like I said, I did what you said. I was already at TDC before I pulled everything off and had the rotor pointing at #1. So that should have been TDC on the compression stroke. The timing marks or dots were not aligned before I took it apart though. Which I wasn't concerned with because I figured the chain had jumped some teeth. Anyway I did as you said and put it back together as it was before anything had been moved. When I rotated the crank 360 deg. WALLA, timing dots lined up and #1 cyl. was at TDC. But, the rotor was pointing at #4 tower on the dist. cap. Exhaust stroke right? No matter what I do I can't get all 3 things in sync. Could it just the cam is 360 deg. off and been 360 deg. off all the while, before I took it apart? Whould it run like this?
And yes it was a dbl. roller. I've rebuilt a 350 small block and used a dbl roller before. Two rows of teeth two rows of chain, pretty simple.
Thanks for your help FazDak. I've just never seen this problem before and I don't think to well geometrically sometimes, LOL!
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FazDak
GenII
5/26/2003
23:21:55
| RE: cam timing? please respond ASAP?
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Ive put a crap load of LA small blocks and a few mag timing chain sets on.
Ive never seen what your talking about before. If you set it up with rotor on #4, dots aligned, #1 piston up and TDC mark aligned on ballancer and timing cover, I dare to say you are in for trouble.
Just like with carpentry......measure twice cut once, recheck everything and take nothing you have tried or done for granted.
Hope you get it straightened out before you bolt it all back together.
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