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Darryl
Dodge Dakota
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4/14/2003
01:00:02
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 Subject: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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'99 V6 cc auto 2wd 3.55's
Mods:
Intake
Cat-Back
Fastman TB
180* Stat
Bosch + 4's
Royal Purple (motor & Rear End)
Lowered 2/3
R/T Wheels (255/55/17)
Plus alot more
I took off my Jet Stage 2 module today and put on 35 miles after resetting the ECU. So far I can NOT notice any difference in performance (and I'm rooting for the module to work!).
Filled up with 89 octane instead of 91 for the first time in a long time.
I will CLOSLEY monitor the performance and the MPG of my truck this week and after 500 miles (Friday) I will report on the Jet 2 and maybe, finaly, we can put the issue of if it works or not to rest.
Darryl
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stiinc
Dodge Dakota
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4/14/2003
18:23:46
|  RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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Can't wait for your results...I put my chip in in the winter, now that the streets are dry it's hard to say if there was a whole lot of diference, although I'm pretty sure when I'm hiway cruising It had noticably more pick up...?
Anyways be sure to post back.
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
4/14/2003
21:41:26
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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you're decreasing your octane by 2 points.. of course you're gonna see a decrease in performance
Turbocharged V6
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Darryl
Dodge Dakota
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4/15/2003
16:10:38
|  RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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The MYTH of octane producing power just won't die.
The reason I increased the octane in the first place, was because the Jet Stage 2 adds more timing advance (or so they CLAIM).
Now that my ECU is back to stock, I can reduce the octane accordingly.
Guy's if you take a stock motor to the chassis dyno on 87 octane, get a reading, than put in 91 octane ( Calif.) or 93, there will be NO improvement in the dyno #'s....PERIOD!
Now granted, my motor is not stock so the ECU may change some parameters from the factory settings. But the 89 octane will be just fine, as the ECU will not change that much in the way of timing and going to 91 octane would show NO MORE IMPROVEMENT at all.
I have 195 miles on my truck since the change and I have a VERY good idea of performance changes (if any) in the truck....However I will wait a few more miles to make sure the ECU relearn is complete. I will post back on Friday with a complete report!
Darryl
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
4/15/2003
17:39:47
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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"Guy's if you take a stock motor to the chassis dyno on 87 octane, get a reading, than put in 91 octane ( Calif.) or 93, there will be NO improvement in the dyno #'s....PERIOD!"
how many times have you done this?
do you know what octane is?
ever read car craft? they did to an octane dyno session and did see different results.
"finaly, we can put the issue of if it works or not to rest."
and if you see changed in your truck, are you gonna guarrantee results with every one elses truck?
Turbocharged V6
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Eggman
GenIII
4/15/2003
18:18:32
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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I've only changed my t-stat to a 160 and my dak spark knocks on 87.Gotta run at least mid-grade in it.
00'r.c,solar yellow 40 flo',160 stat ,trick flow phenolic tb. spacer,R.T. tailpipe,pro-flo air cleaner
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Darryl
Dodge Dakota
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4/15/2003
18:41:05
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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IntenseDak39:
Pop quiz hotshot: I live at 3,600 feet above
sea level. What does this do to my octane
needs?... Well?... I know, do you?
I posted this not to argue with every Tom,
D-I-C-K and Harry, but to give an ACCURATE
result (on my truck ), to see if the Jet Stage 2
module works.
Answers to your questions,
never
yes
no
no
"Let's see, the factory rates my stock engine at
175 HP on 87 octane (the octane the factory
specs for use), I know, if I go buy 105 octane
racing fuel, I will now have 262 HP.... Car Craft
says so. Who needs to waste their money on
bolt-on mods, Just use higher octane".
IntenseDak39
And by the way, why in the F-U-C-K would you
WASTE your hard earned money by turbo
charging a ...(gulp)... V6?????
Everybody else who wants to know my
opinions, on MY TRUCK, regaurding the Jet
Stage 2 module and if it helps, stay tuned.
Darryl
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
4/15/2003
19:30:21
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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"Guy's if you take a stock motor to the chassis dyno on 87 octane, get a reading, than put in 91 octane ( Calif.) or 93, there will be NO improvement in the dyno #'s....PERIOD!"
now that you have answered you have NEVER done that, thats not good enough for me.
i wasted my hard earn money to turbocharge my truck because i did it all for less than $600. Now that might be a lot of hard earned money to you, but not me.
once again, you posted:
"I will CLOSLEY monitor the performance and the MPG of my truck this week and after 500 miles (Friday) I will report on the Jet 2 and maybe, finaly, we can put the issue of if it works or not to rest."
but now you are saying its only an opinion on your truck??? what gives?
answer to popquiz...
yes i know what elevation does to your octane need... in higher elevation, there is less dense air and requires less octane then areas closer to sea level. BUT that doesnt mean that changing your octane doesnt have any ill-effects...
never said you would increase your hp by over 50%... just it will have a definite showing.
Since you failed to answer any other those question correctly let me help you. Car Craft did a dyno with a small block 360 and ran three different octane gasolines. From 87 to 92 octane, they gained 5 hp... no, not much.. but it did change.
until you change your first answer to "Did it yesterday infact!" then dont tell me i am wrong.
oh, and i did have the jet stage two module and i DID have (track proven) positive results with it... but i am waiting on your butt dyno results...
Turbocharged V6
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Darryl
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/15/2003
20:07:21
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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IntenseDak39:
Your answer to pop quiz is correct. Congrats.
You obviously know everthing about everything.
To the rest of us who don't know it all, maybe this will be helpfull. I am sure the rest of us poor, dumb guys can figure out if the info I give, will pertain to us or not.
For whatever reason, you seem to have a bug up your ass for me and thats fine, remember, what comes around, goes around.
I would love to hear someone elses comments on this, because if I am just waisting my time, I have much better things to do. (Like drive my 350 Z Track Model at Willow Springs!)
Darryl
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
4/15/2003
20:40:37
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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hey man, never called you dumb... never said i know everything... dont have anything up my @ss...
you just tried to tell everyone that i was wrong on the effects of different octane gasolines but you had absolutely no proof.
man, you starting throwing the flack... not me.
btw, whats more important... did you notice a difference with the jet when you installed it?
Turbocharged V6
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Darryl
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/15/2003
21:04:48
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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Greg:
Heres the deal, on a late model, computer controlled engine, designed to run on 87, the only reason to run higher octane would be if it is knocking, so the computer won't pull back the timing with the knock sensor.
If we are talking pre OBD engines than the octane might be a bigger issue. (360 small block?).
I think it fair to say we have differing opinions on this matter.
As for the module, I have alot of anger directed at myself for wasting $218.00 2 years ago!
So far my truck runs just the same without it as it did with it, and again I'm rooting for the module.
Part throttle performance is the same with the engine and the tranny.
WOT performance SEEMS the same, but maybe a little smoother RPM climb without it, but with the module I had more of a "peak" at 3200-4000 RPM's. All in all I do not feel $218 worth of performance gains.
With the module at WOT, my truck would shift at 5000 RPM's (1st-2nd, 2nd-3rd). Without it at WOT it shifts at 4800RPM's (1st-2nd, 2nd-3rd).
This is my opinion, on my truck. What was your time slip differences with/without module, and at that time what mods did you have?
Darryl
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duk
Dodge Dakota
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4/15/2003
21:15:29
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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I don't think the Dakota has a knock sensor
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7DAK
Dodge Dakota
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4/15/2003
21:26:42
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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Darryl, 1st of all I just wanna say that I am interested in your test because I was thinking about buying one for my 1990 3.9, but something for you to remember is don't $#IT about people's vehicles man.
"And by the way, why in the F-U-C-K would you
WASTE your hard earned money by turbo
charging a ...(gulp)... V6?????
To me a persons vehicle is like a part of them for you to say stuff about them just pisses people off, ESPECIALLY, when we spend our hard earned money on them, but hey, to some of us it's more than worth it to spend our hard earned money on something we love.
oh yea, hey Intense, you gotta pimp truck keep up the good work and keep wasting your hard earned money, lol, I know i will
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Deep Purple
Gen III
4/15/2003
21:27:23
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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On a V6 forum, should you be surprised that some one was ingenious enough to apply a turbo charger
to a V6? Octane can produce a slight increase in power. But add more advance and compression and a more significant increase in power can be obtained. Just ask any old drag racer about the days of Blue Sunoco. A higher octane fuel that did make a difference.
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Darryl
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/15/2003
22:09:43
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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Message:
Guys, I am not going to rehash Greg's and my dispute, I think we'll both agree to disagree.
You're right about the disrespect on my part towards Gregs ride, but what really gets my butt burning, is when someone on this forum is just trying to do the best job he or she can do to help sort out different issues/mods/problems and people dump on him on any way they can.
Wheather or not Greg dumped on me is up for yet more debate, but thats how I felt.
I am not going to argue on who said what first, but when I feel disrespected, I defend myself, vegoriously, the only way I know.
So what I thought started out as a cool post, has ended in a typical dodgedakotas.com way.
Darryl
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Jon
Dodge Dakota
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4/15/2003
23:17:36
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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An engine produces the most horsepower when it is burning the lowest octane possible without detonation. Low octane fuel burns faster and easier then high octane. Generally your base timing is set to 10 degrees BTDC. To make the most power you need to have maximum cylinder pressure at 10 degrees ATDC, which gives you about three thousenths of a second to fully burn the air/fuel charge. Higher octane fuel does contain more energy but to make that energy useful you need to advance the timing. So on stock timing, normal compression, with no knock sensor, 87 octane is good. If you advance your timing, have high cylinder pressure you want higher octane to resist detonation. If you have a knock sensor the computer will slowly advance the timing till it sees a knock, then retards it, then starts advancing again. So on a knock sensor vehicle going up a couple points in octane will give you slightly more power.
But to those that say why turbo a V6, why are kids spending thousands building 800hp 4 bangers when you could spend have as much to build a 800hp v8? It's just a new kind of sport, everyone has supercharged v8's, i would rather look at someones custom turbo V6 truck.
-Jon
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
4/16/2003
11:22:33
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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darryl,
once again i did not dump on you in any way. Right after i put my info on the topic on the table you took a stab at it....
no offense but i find it kinda ironic that you find a way to insult me by mentioning my turbo project and how it was a waste but you in return feel yourself has wasted $218.00 with no performance gains.
here is a price list on my turbo crap... yes i am frugal:
$100 garret tb0301 turbo
$100 exhaust pipe and flanges (and bolts)
$100 polished compressor housing
$ 75 oil lines and fittings
$ 25 blow off valve
free 24 lb injectors (dad had extras)
free gauges/gauge pod/tb hat (dad got them for me X-mas)
free k&n filter (bernd gave it to me)
free Map sensor mod (bernd did it to my truck)
actually all in all i spent about $400 on it... now i do have a $300 intercooler sitting in my room but its not installed and going up for sale.
I had the Jet Stage II module over a year ago (maybe almost two). I got rid of it because i was going from a 75 shot of nitrous to a 100 shot (didnt want the extra timing). My mods were as listed:
Mopar Cold Air Intake
JBA headers
Flowmaster 40 series
Jet II
Autolite Plugs
180 Thermo
MSD 6a
MSD 8.5 mm wires
MSD Blaster 2 coil
75 Shot of Good ol Nitrous Express
My times varied by 2 tenths... if it was only 1 tenth i wouldnt brag about it but i feel that the Jet caused the difference.
I have now since sold my Module and the customer stated that he had/has noticable increase in power.
Now here is something for the "might buy in the future" people... Dont. Just relocate your IAT to a colder place in the engine compartment. That also advances your timing and changes your fuel curve a bit. If i knew about that before, i wouldnt of bought the Jet.
again darryl, i didnt dump on you and dont plan on it. If you had/have proof on your MYTH about my MYTH, i would side with you.
thanx guys
Turbocharged V6
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Darryl
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/16/2003
19:02:00
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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Message:
Greg:
Honda Tuning Magazine, November 2001.
They did an article on the "myth" of the octane question, and found that the higher octane did not produce any more power. It was they, who put the car on a chassis dyno that I spoke of earlier, So now what?
Maybe start a post on which magazine has the "bestest" info?
I think the ironey escaped you, because I said that ( I know you're big on quotes):
"As for the module, I have alot of anger directed at myself for waisting $218 2 years ago."
Yes, I am admitting that I could have put my money towards something else that would have made alot more sense, I don't think thats ironic, just good self diagnosis.
If someone were to ask me "Hey D, should I buy the Jet Stage 2 module?" I would say no based on my very unsientific "test".
Darryl
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
4/16/2003
22:31:06
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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i didnt see the irony as you spending the money on the module... i saw the irony as you stabbing at me spending $600 on something that DOES work and yet you spent 1/3 that and go no results.
lol... honda magazine... lol
Turbocharged V6
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Andy
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/16/2003
22:54:07
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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Intense first off octane has no effect on the power output of the motor...none. The five horsepower increase you claim was more than likely the result of diffrences in the dyno. Five horsepower is nothing to find and loose on the dyno. I have to preface this by saying i love my truck and would never give it up. You laugh at the honda (small displacement high reving motor) but you can really make those things run for almost no money. That said Darryl i really do agree with everything you said except bashing his truck. You and i dont understand the point of putting a turbo on a 6suck but if it works for Intense more power to him. Any who thats my two cents.
Oh once again....OCATANE BOOSTER DOES NOT MAKE POWER, IT STOPS DETONATION.
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
4/17/2003
10:45:13
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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hondas are not cheap to work on... i have worked on many (i even own one).
I dont know what differences there can be in a engine dyno inside building that can cause 5 hp difference. wasnt a chassis dyno... engine dyno... and to me, i would rather say i have 300 hp than 295.
If turbos arent your thing, then i have no biggy with that... i like it and i dont like the fact that i have to get rid of it.
Turbocharged V6
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spitz
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/17/2003
11:52:17
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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why doo you have to get rid of your turbo? how much if you are parting with it, are you selling it for? could you tell us how you did it maybe it can be duplicated!!! i have always wanted another turbo since my first car a 1986 new yorker 2.2 turbo, not fast but just loved hearing that turbo spool up and try to get me somewhere!!! ahh the good old days...
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
4/17/2003
12:04:51
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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The BOV and Turbonetics AirHat have already been sold. If someone wants the header i built... i dont care for it so i can let it go cheap. The header will fit other V6 dakotas but when you try to get the crossover pipe to fit is the hard part. I have no a/c so that was easy for me.
all my parts are on ebay
Turbocharged V6
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00dak
Dodge Dakota
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4/17/2003
13:02:59
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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Why would you get rid of such a bad a$$ set up like that. Was it drinking to much gas, would you not pass emissions?? Did you build the bottem end of your engine so nothing would hopefully bend under the added heat and pressure?
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
4/17/2003
15:03:40
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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well my girl killed our other reliable car so i am down to one reliable car and the dak... need to make it more reliable and driver friendly for her. I didnt do anything to the bottom end... i was only pushing 7-8 # boost. I have the heads off right now and everything on them look good.
Turbocharged V6
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00dak
Dodge Dakota
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4/17/2003
16:03:32
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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How hard was the install. I know my chances of doing this but I would like to know if you get a chance. thanks
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Easter Bunny
Dodge Dakota
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4/17/2003
16:52:02
|  RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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You Boy's have a nice holiday
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
4/17/2003
16:53:12
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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well its rather easy to install on my truck because its basically designed for it. Only thing is i have to cut off the crossover pipe because i had it completely welded on
Turbocharged V6
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Jon
Dodge Dakota
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4/17/2003
22:55:14
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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Can you post a link to the stuff you have on ebay?
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
4/18/2003
10:51:43
| RE: Removed Jet 2.. let's see what happens!
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well all that i have on there now is the turbo, new intercooler and new wheels. Not selling any of my exhaust parts on ebay. Dont wanna lead anybody on that it will actually work on their truck (because i dont know if it will)
Turbocharged V6
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