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carolinakota
Dodge Dakota
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2/17/2003
23:11:21
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 Subject: Anything to help bottom end ???
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Hey, I was just wondering if anybody had a mod or two that helped the hesitation from a dead stop. So far, I have done: v6 to v8 TB, 360 AirIntake, dynomax muffler, and removed clutch-driven fan. I'm getting ready to do IAT Adjuster, but I'm not sure it will help. I love the way this thing runs after about 2,800 RPM, I just want something more for the launch.
I was thinking maybe MSD ignition and blaster coil or pulleys, but honestly I have no clue what would help.
Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.
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BL
Dodge Dakota
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2/18/2003
18:22:48
|  RE: Anything to help bottom end ???
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Sorry man, but from what I heard, if you change the throttle body witout changing much else it kills the bottom power.
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carolinakota
Dodge Dakota
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2/18/2003
18:48:08
| RE: Anything to help bottom end ???
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That's what I was thinking. So is there anything that will help it ??
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no-neck
Dodge Dakota
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2/21/2003
12:01:20
| RE: Anything to help bottom end ???
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the bottom end (torque) is driven by two main factors: compression and gearing. Open exhausts are awesome for overall hp gains (the more you breath the faster you go) but this hurts the bottow end a bit. A nice combination of high flow without going overboard makes a difference. On my 4x4 I flow more than I probably should since I prefer torque off-road over speed, but for freeway driving the open exhaust is great. That's where gearing comes in. I run 3.92's front and rear. The higher the gears (within reason) the easier it is to translate your hp to torque.
One last thing you might try (it worked for me but not for everyone) is adjusting your TPS. It is believed that the more effiecient your TPS (throttle positioning sensor) the quicker your throttle response will be off the line. It's a free mod and easy to do. Otherwise look at your exhaust and gearing as possible places to make up torque but don't go crazy one way or he other with your exhaust flow unless you are ready to sink a ton of cash in gears and better engine mods to make up he difference.
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carolinakota
Dodge Dakota
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2/24/2003
23:50:37
| RE: Anything to help bottom end ???
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Just wondering if pulleys or ignition would help. Also, if I go with different gearing, is there any particular gear ratio that ya'll would suggest ?? Also, where can I buy them/get it done for not a lot of cash ??
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waterpolo
GenIII
2/25/2003
11:35:59
| RE: Anything to help bottom end ???
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Just like no-neck said changing the gears will help with bottom end. I had 3.21's in my V6 with AX-15 (5-speed) and when i put the 3.92's with the posi it was amazing how much it helped. The milage didn't change too much either 1-3 MPG. For me that snot much but for others it may be.
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no-neck
Dodge Dakota
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2/25/2003
11:51:05
| RE: Anything to help bottom end ???
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Not with torque. The Ignition actually won't do anything for you at all unless you are running way over stock like headers and supercharger, nos, etc...
The stock ignition is great as long as you replace a few of the basic stock component like cap and rotor and a good set of wires. None of this helps with torque or hp but it will increase response a little. Overall though it will just run smoother which is what we all want when we are cruzing around town.
Depending on your truck (2x4 or 4x4) you might consider going as high as 4.10's if you are looking to translate your hp gains straight to the ground for quick hole shots at the track. But for street cruzin and samshing other six'ers around town I would look into a set of 3.92's from someone here on the board who is going bigger and then finding a local garage that you trust to do the swap for you. The dealer quoted me $500 parts and labor for rear only 4.10's (which doesn't help me at all since I am going 4.56 front and rear) so that bit of info may be useful to you if your dealer is nearby. Otherwise check around the board here, someone is always swapping gears.
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vern
Dodge Dakota
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2/25/2003
12:15:36
| RE: Anything to help bottom end ???
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jacobs ignition,they say they will improve torque,hp,mileage and throttle response.if not return in 30 days for refund minus shipping.
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DakotaDan
*GenIII*
2/25/2003
12:21:54
|  RE: Anything to help bottom end ???
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See aftermarket Ignition Amplifiers
http://www.centuryperformance.com/spark.asp
Dan
Next Time You Think You're Perfect
~~~~~Try Walking On Water~~~~~
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no-neck
Dodge Dakota
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2/25/2003
12:27:29
| RE: Anything to help bottom end ???
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Sorry Vern, I just don't believe it. If you give it a shot, let me know what you think. I've never seen a difference that wasn't "seat of the pants" rated. If they have dyno results to back their claim then I'm all over it but otherwise I wouldn't waste the $$ for the shipping cost.
I've run MSD on my muscle cars but I have dyno results to show what worked under what circumstances and why. Once you kick it up a notch with blowers, superchargers or nos you need the extra spark for combustion but I've never seen a stock or mod'd stock PCM controlled engine get anything out of an after market ignition.
If you give it a try, let me know how it works out for you.
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vern
Dodge Dakota
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2/25/2003
13:08:11
| RE: Anything to help bottom end ???
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no neck,heres just a few sights for you to check out...REVIEWS!!!ON JACOBS IGNITION!!!hot rodding-feb98;offroad-april98;sporttruck dec98;4x4 performance jan98;car stereo oct98;4x4 review.com;dirtroad.com;industryfigure.com/berkeley/jeep;4x4 wire.com;derrybrownfield.com;
for everyone else don,t listen to no neck he has,nt done his homework and needs to review!
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no-neck
Dodge Dakota
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2/25/2003
22:40:46
| RE: Anything to help bottom end ???
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Vern, shut your hole and stop being an antagonistic bitch. Re-read my post, knucklehead. Seems to me my exact words were: "If they have dyno results to back their claim then I'm all over it. . .". What pisses me off about this board is jack ass like you that read a frigg'n article and think you've been building street rods your whole life. Come out to my world and let me school your little punk ass. Oh, I read a few of your articles but again I fail to see how an 82 carburated 350 Rambler fits into the PCM controlled engine I referenced to in my post. Another item I noted was "I've run MSD on my muscle cars but I have dyno results to show what worked under what circumstances and why.", these cars were also carburated street rods with manually adjustable elements that a mechanic understands how to manipulate and maximize for better whole shots and 1/4 times. But I guess this is all over your head, huh jackass. Can't possibly understand how we did it in the old days before efi, pcm's and smog control, eh?
Your a dumbass. Next time you post a reply read the original post more clearly, moron.
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no-neck
Dodge Dakota
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2/25/2003
22:56:16
| RE: Anything to help bottom end ???
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P.S. dumbass, read Dan's post and associated link. That might explain in more basic terms so that you can better understand what an after market box does for you and why. Note that in the reviews you listed they had to open the gap to get the predicted results. A slightly larger gap (.035 to .050 as your articles were indicating) will creat a larger spark and typically result in a cleaner more efficient burn.
So with this said, maybe you need to do YOUR research. . . "know what I mean Vern?"
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vern
Dodge Dakota
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2/26/2003
10:20:51
| RE: Anything to help bottom end ???
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no neck if you would go back and reread carolinakota question.you would see my answer was to that!in no way did I say that jacobs ignition would help!jacobs claim that,so if you have a problem with that,take it up with jacobs!!!NOT ME!!! i give the reviews for a point of interest if anyone maybe concertering a ignition.PERIOD.
its people like you thats so knowlegdeable and verbalize that make these forums so interesting.
sorry if i hurt your feelings and ego.
and for a jack a$$,a jack is a device for lifting heavy objects,a a$$ is who i,m trying to explain this too!
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Joe E.
Dodge Dakota
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2/26/2003
12:46:15
| RE: Anything to help bottom end ???
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Common guys. Were all after the same things here. faster, cleaner daks. Lets chill with the bad interpersonal relations ok.
I installed the Jacobs Omni Magnum ignition on my truck. A 1990 2wd V6. I bought it used but with a Jacobs 8.5mm wire set, and autolite plugs gaped around .040, it does help. It will run you a bit of change tho. So cost to hp might not be as good as a K&N or something, but it does help. Milage went up a it too. AS well as throttle responce. I am looking for a good cap and rotor now, any suggestions? Thanks
Joe E.
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whitedakota2
Dodge Dakota
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2/26/2003
17:18:48
| RE: Anything to help bottom end ???
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I agree with no-neck but without getting to excited.
The newer vehicles, OBD-II and newer, will benefit less from ignition systems than older vehicles. The ones running non-efi systems from days gone by will benifit the most. This is on STOCK vehicles. If you add a NOS system, supercharger, or a turbo then you will see more improvement from ignition upgrades. Also any increase in compression ratio will also benifit from an upgrade to the ignition system. The stock systems in newer vehicles work very well in stock and even with mild hop ups. They do fail when cylinder pressures begin to increase as with the above stated add-ons or changes.
Dyno tests are the final proof. Period. Anyone can make claims of horsepower improvements. In fact that is their job. They need you to buy their product to make money. You would never spend $200 or more for ignition upgrades if they said it would make little difference.
So the bottom line is yes you can get an ignition upgrade but your money can be spent on other things to get more power for the money.
By the way, NAPA has brass contact caps and rotors. Just ask for them at the counter.
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CarolinaKota
Dodge Dakota
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2/26/2003
18:02:32
| RE: Anything to help bottom end ???
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OK. Thanks for all the info. I'm not extremely crazy about changing the gearing---yet. (Reason is, I'm planning a 360 swap in the future, and I'll swap rear-ends if I change gearing) Just trying to get info about everything that will possibly help. Any opinions about pulleys, JET chip (although I really want something that will also work on the new motor), or IAT adjuster ??
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whitedakota2
Dodge Dakota
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2/27/2003
16:26:56
| RE: Anything to help bottom end ???
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The pulley setup helps. I have a full set of ASP underdrive pulleys and it was a noticable change. The only problem is the alternator is spinning so slowly that when you have several things on (lights, turn signal, stop lights, wipers) you will notice when stopped that the system quits charging. But when not using anything (daytime and a clear day) that the system works normal. I just kinda hold the brake a little and give it some gas to make it charge. It is worth it due to the extra hp it adds. This is a for sure extra hp, not just claims, as the accessories use a fixed amout and slowing them down gains you hp.
On the Jet chips, there have been people who said they work and quite a few who say they don't. I am not willing to spend the money to test it. As it requires some mods to be added, air intake, exhaust, and a 180 degree thermostat to add the chip, but these mods add power on their own so the chip may just be a waist of money.
As for the IAT adjuster, it will help and is inexpensive. But they are not making it right now. There are a lot of people who would by one, me for one, if it was being made (hint hint).
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CarolinaKota
Dodge Dakota
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2/27/2003
17:11:25
| RE: Anything to help bottom end ???
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That's what I was worried about concerning the pulleys. It might not go so well for me because I have a 1600 Watt sound system that pulls a good amout of current. Even with a 1 farad capacitor, my headlights still dim at night.
As for the IAT adjuster, I have the schematics on how to build one. Plus I'm taking electronics engineering at my college, so building one is no problem, I was just wondering if it would make a difference.
But thanks for the info.
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