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SuperDak
Dodge Dakota
11/17/2001
23:52:06
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 Subject: turbo 3.9
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ok i was lookin around the speedtweeks site and came across a turbo for the 3.9...just wondering if anyone has one of these and how much hp are ya gettin from it
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DeepDak
Dodge Dakota
11/18/2001
02:32:30
| Already discussed...
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Go to the second page and read the turbo 3.9 post. This post should answer most, if not all your questions.
Eli
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Geoff
Dodge Dakota
11/18/2001
19:35:33
| RE: turbo 3.9
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What is the difference between a turbo and a supercharger?
Seems as if they do the same thing?
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SuperDak
Dodge Dakota
11/18/2001
19:50:35
| RE: turbo 3.9
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I think a turbocharger makes 20psi of boost whilst a supercharger just makes like 6-12psi
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Geoff
Dodge Dakota
11/18/2001
20:00:09
| RE: turbo 3.9
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Well i did a little research
According to www.howstuffworks.com
a turbo uses the exhaust of the engine to spin a turbine that in turn spins a compressor for the intake air.
What the advantage of this over a supercharger is i dont know
basically it seems to me that a supercharger is a belt driven turbo
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DakotaDan
Dodge Dakota
11/18/2001
20:10:00
|  RE: turbo 3.9
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Supercharger : belt driven from engine also robs a small amount of HP to produce it's own extra HP, boost determined by pulley diameters.
Turbocharger : Exhaust driven doesn't rob HP from engine, older models suffered from "Turbo Lag" newer ones are more efficient, boost determined by a wastegate some are adjustable.
Can't wait to see Bernd's new turbo setup...............
It might be for me as soon as I get out of warranty........................
01 DAK CC 3.9 auto SLT+ K&N FIPK DynoMax
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Lesley
GenIII
11/18/2001
22:22:07
| RE: turbo 3.9
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What kind of dollars would that kind of set-up be worth?
97 3.9 V6 Sport Club Cab. Black. Auto 3.55
Quick D Intake, JBA Stainless headers
Autolite 3923s with Borg Warner Wires
Awaiting Installation: Borla catback, V8 R/T TB
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bernd
*GenIII*
11/18/2001
23:21:16
| RE: turbo 3.9
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The boost levels on the Turbo and Superchargers are the same. 6-8psi on the Turbo for the 3.9L is what we're aiming for.
We won't be releasing any pricing at this time for the 3.9/5.2/5.9L as we're concentrating on the 2.5L kit first.
The turbo vs. supercharger debate has been around for a lont time...neither one is better than the other (weighing each pro and con)...boost is boost. It makes power. :)
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
14.93 @ 93.26mph
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NiPs
Dodge Dakota
11/19/2001
00:26:45
| RE: turbo 3.9
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Bernd from your experience what would give the better get-up and go power a s/c or turbo? Realizing that both are going to preform about the same as in boost levels and times I am sure which one has the best power available at any given moment? I would assume a s/c but then again it does rob hp so I ask...Which do you think would have the greater power to use at any given point?
-James, '01 RAM RC 3.9L
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bernd
*GenIII*
11/19/2001
02:11:11
| RE: turbo 3.9
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Both if designed properly.
Yes, the Superchargers do ron about 3-5% max. On a 250HP engine, that's 7-12HP. No big thing as a modified throttle body, headers, or catback exhaust system will make up for that. On the Turbos, heat is the killer and spool up time (if not designed properly).
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
14.93 @ 93.26mph
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SuperDak
Dodge Dakota
11/19/2001
17:32:38
| RE: turbo 3.9
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the Eaton S/C in the Lightining makes 11psi
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toast
Dodge Dakota
11/19/2001
22:14:02
| RE: turbo 3.9
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Turbo is much harder on an engine than a supercharger plus it is much more harder to install.
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kota on 20s
GenIII
11/20/2001
01:21:36
| RE: turbo 3.9
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a SC on a dragster makes about 30psi and takes about 250 hp to turn it.
a turbo or SC will run at any amount of boost you want to set it at. the engine is the weak link, and you should set the boost devise acordingly.
i think a turbo will be better (but also more of a pain to install) because you dont have to worry about traction. by the time it spools, the truck is rolling and you can get the power to the ground.
if running a "roots type" SC like a kenny bell, holly, or eaton (which the "L" has) it puts the power to the ground at idle and launching is a
bi!ch (so iv been told)
Eric
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4wDakota
Dodge Dakota
11/20/2001
13:44:19
| RE: turbo 3.9
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Turbos are much better with manuals. If you run an automatic go with the supercharger. The Turbo relies on engine load to increase boost, in an automatic the torqueconverter multiplies torque to the wheels, in other words reduces the load on the engine. You have to put a lot of design in to a setup for an automatic and dump a lot of money into the transmission.
Summary:
Automatic: Supercharger
Manual : Turbo or supercharger
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toast
Dodge Dakota
11/20/2001
21:09:34
| RE: turbo 3.9
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Message:
I disagree with your statement 4wDakota, just ask any Buick Grand National owner on how well a turbo workes with an automatic. Trust me i have had one of these fast cars and i will still perfer an auto over a manual for turbo engines. Boost stays constant throughout the shifts unlike a manual where boost goes down and then has to clime back up. Auto is diffentaly the best way to go with a turbo.
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kota on 20s
GenIII
11/20/2001
23:32:34
| RE: turbo 3.9
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toast, my friend has a 86 T-type. that thing fly's and i know what you mean about it staying in boost. he just rebuilt his engine and should be running mid/low 11's. I CANT WAIT TO GO FOR A RIDE!! talk about a sleeper ;-)
Eric
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Dillys Dak
Dodge Dakota
11/20/2001
23:36:55
|  RE: turbo 3.9
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Turbo:Best efficiency. New turbos can be sized and designed for your needs,anywhere from lots of torque at low RPM to lots of Horsepower at high RPM(also if you choose a Turbo and you want all of the above you might want to look into a company called aerocharger)
Centiffical S/C:Boost builds with RPM,Best at high
RPM,compression as efficient as Turbo,but still crank driven.
Roots S/C:Least efficient,very linear boost,looses efficiency at higher RPM.
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SuperDak
Dodge Dakota
11/20/2001
23:40:40
| RE: turbo 3.9
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kota...are you reffering to a top fuel dragster..the blowers on those things make an additional 700hp!!
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kota on 20s
GenIII
11/22/2001
02:56:10
| RE: turbo 3.9
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yes i was refering to a top fuel dragster, and no the blowers dont make 700hp. they take about 250hp to turn them and inturn deliver THOUSANDS of hp. the complete engine makes between 6 and 7 thousand hp. so how can the blower only make 700? are you saying the engine alone is making 5300hp?
Eric
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SuperDak
Dodge Dakota
11/22/2001
13:56:22
| RE: turbo 3.9
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what I mean is that 700-1000 comes from the blower and the other 5500 comes from the nitro
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kota on 20s
GenIII
11/22/2001
14:31:59
| RE: turbo 3.9
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nitro methane does not make that much power. how much does the engine make? nothing?
Eric
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SuperDak
Dodge Dakota
11/22/2001
17:20:46
| RE: turbo 3.9
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well all that power isnt coming from that blower alone
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dakkid
Dodge Dakota
11/22/2001
17:37:41
| RE: turbo 3.9
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whoa wait i thought
supercharger could make power throught the whole powerband while
Turbo made it mid to high
so then would S/C's be better?
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kota on 20s
GenIII
11/22/2001
21:52:17
| RE: turbo 3.9
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superdak, thats my point. most of the power comes from the engine, then the blower. yes the nitro methane does make some power but not near as much as the actual parts of the engine.
Eric
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shiftless
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/05/2002
00:34:01
| RE: turbo 3.9
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wow, i see a LOT of misinformation floating around this thread. take note of the information i'm about to convery, because it's not hearsay or "i heard this from my buddy joe who heard it from this guy...", it's the factual truth.
a turbocharger consists of a turbine in the exhaust flow, which drives a compressor. the compressor increases the air pressure (boost) in the intake manifold, thus increasing air flow (and power, since more fuel can be added).
a supercharger does the same thing, except it's driven by a belt.
there are two principal types of superchargers - "roots" style and centrifugal. a "roots" style blower comes on with full boost as soon as you hit the gas. a centrifugal blower's boost is in relation to engine speed.
the "roots" style blower, unlike the centrifugal blower and the turbo, does NOT compress incoming air. it simply "shovels" it from one side to the other. the centrifugal blower and turbo DO compress the incoming air somewhat.
the primary advantages of a turbocharger include less expense (a talented person can setup a turbo for a couple hundred dollars and some time in the junkyard), better control of boost, and more efficiency. the chief disadvantage is the difficulty of installation (it requires a custom exhaust manifold/header/downpipe to be made, not a big deal really)
the primary advantage of the supercharger is ease of installation. the disadvantages are numerous, including cost ($1000+), parasitic losses from the belt drive mechanism, less efficiency, no way to control boost dynamically (boost is determined by the pulley size, but with a turbo you can control it on the fly with a simple valve control mounted in the cabin).
to whoever said that a turbo is "harder" on the engine than a supercharger, you're wrong. stop spreading misinformation that you "heard" from someone else.
to whoever mentioned something about turbo lag, let me clarify- turbo lag is the delay between when you floor the accelerator and when boost comes on. turbo lag is caused by running a turbo that is too big for the engine, thus resulting in a slight delay before the turbo is spun up by the exhaust gasses. used correctly, as someone else mentioned, turbo lag can be an *advantage* because it allows you to launch easier.
it doesnt matter whether you run a manual or an automatic, either one will work with a supercharger or turbocharger equally well.
one note about turbos vs. superchargers - turbochargers make *explosive* power. meaning, you'll floor the gas, everything will be normal, then a split second later you'll hear the turbo whine and the vehicle will LEAP right out from under you. it's really a cool feeling. :D the power delivery of a supercharger is a bit smoother and more linear than a turbo.
note on twin turbos vs. a single turbo - running a properly setup twin turbo system (one turbo on each side of the exhaust) will result in better driveability and reduced turbo lag. running a single turbo will allow you to run more boost (and thus make more power) at the expensive of a more "peaky" power curve.
don't let anyone tell you that a turbocharger is less reliable than a supercharger. a properly-taken-care-of turbo will last just as long (if not longer!) than a comparable supercharger. they are much cheaper to rebuild, as well.
i hope this has helped someone!
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Erod
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/05/2002
00:47:54
| RE: turbo 3.9
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Thanks, that is a TON of help!
You know your stuff, unlike many threads on here!
What do you do for a living???
Just curious, Thanks.
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LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/05/2002
02:30:58
| RE: turbo 3.9
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does turbo increase gas mileage?
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alex
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/05/2002
09:50:01
| RE: turbo 3.9
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Message:
Thanks, Shiftless. I've been trying to tell these guys to go spend $35 and buy Corky Bell's book "Maximum Boost" but everybody just seems intent on posting "what they've heard" and how "their friend did it."
The book will confirm everything Shiftless said, and more.
And it will also tell you that turbo's will not help your gas mileage.
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LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/05/2002
12:21:13
| RE: turbo 3.9
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will it hurt it.(obviouly it has the potential to hurt it being that you are capable of burning more gas) but under normal conditions it would be the same right. I would think that as far as accelerating was concerned it would increase your mileage because it takes less time to get up to speed.
do you guys think that a turbo 3.9 4x4 CC 3.92 auto could take out a stock RT or 4.7 5 speed 2wd? how about a stock lightning? according to bernd and toms estimates it would be right up there but I really have a difficult time believing that
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alex
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/05/2002
13:47:01
| RE: turbo 3.9
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Here we go again. It all depends on how much the truck weighs, how the turbo system is set-up, the gearing, the driver, and a LOT of other variables.
If I set up a turbo V-6, it would not be on a 4x4 model, and yes it would slap a stock R/T silly. But that's how I would have it configured. What you want to do is up to you and your wallet.
If you will spend the $35 for Maximum Boost and read it thru, you will see the section where Corky talks about the fact that you will not see too much mileage loss under normal driving conditions. When you are in boost, however, you are pushing a lot more air and thus a lot more fuel and therefore you are making less gas mileage. Gas mileage is measured in miles per gallon, not "time to get up to speed."
Please, for the love of God, sell your truck and buy the book! Today!
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bernd
*GenIII*
4/05/2002
18:12:51
| RE: turbo 3.9
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Does a turbo increase MPG:
Yes...but it depends on your foot. Anytime you increase the VE% of an engine, you now require less pressure on the foot pedal to move the vehicle. Superchargers have this effect as well.
I'll tell you one thing though, yes...there is a loss in HP from the belt driven superchargers...but they still make the power and you won't care about the few HP lost due to the belt drive.
On the engine damage from a turbo or supercharger...that entirely depends on fuel, timing, engine tune (how old mainly), regular maintenance, and driver. Anyone can drive a turbo or supercharged vehicle...it's the regular maintenence that keeps it in shape. However, everything wears out eventually...there's no way around that.
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
14.55 @ 96.01mph
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