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Rooknute
Dodge Dakota
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6/03/2002
11:34:33
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 Subject: Turbo!
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Does anyone know if they make a twin turbo for a 97 Dakota 3.9L?? I was at a web page months ago that stated they were making a kit, but forgot the site. PLEASE HELP, I need some twin T's
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
6/03/2002
11:56:38
|  RE: Turbo!
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speedtweaks is making a twin turbo for the 5.9 and 5.2 but us 3.9 and 4.7ers are just getting a single... they are almost finished with the TT and will probably be starting the singles soon
intensedak39
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rooknute
Dodge Dakota
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6/03/2002
12:02:37
|  RE: Turbo!
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Any reason they can't make a twin? If they make one side turbo why not the other?
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kryp2nite
Dodge Dakota
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6/03/2002
16:57:50
| RE: Turbo!
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bingle turbo can run higher boost
twins just help the bigger one turn
smaller turns bigger
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Rooknute
Dodge Dakota
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6/04/2002
05:47:10
|  RE: Turbo!
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Message:
Sweet, thanks! I'll be looking forward for the kit to be worked on then.
Anyone know about how much they're gonna want for it?
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bernd
*GenIII*
6/04/2002
19:09:46
| RE: Turbo!
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Message:
"bingle turbo can run higher boost
twins just help the bigger one turn
smaller turns bigger"
NOT TRUE
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
14.55 @ 96.01mph
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Tom Slick
GenII
6/04/2002
20:43:42
|  RE: Turbo!
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Message:
Twin turbo setups can be done in two ways, sequential and parallel...
you are thinking of sequential twin turbos...
Our twin turbo kit for the 5.2L/5.9L/408's are parallel setups...
Two turbos do not show any advantage until you get up in the 350 cu. in. displacement range or larger...
Later!
Tom "Slick"
96 Dakota Sport 5.2 RC SB
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rooknute
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/04/2002
22:13:10
|  RE: Turbo!
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Soooo, Are you guys saying that I should try and look for a twin turbo, or wait untill speed tweaks builds a single turbo??
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
6/04/2002
23:51:01
| RE: Turbo!
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psst... those guys are speedtweaks..... dont tell anyone
i think what they were meant was that it is necessary for twin turbo
intensedak39
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bernd
*GenIII*
6/05/2002
00:02:57
| RE: Turbo!
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Efficiency is the deciding factor. Build a high HP single turbo on a 5.2/5.9L...well...it'll work (there's no question about that). Build a twin system on the same 5.2/5.9L...it'll be much more efficient. CID is also the deciding factor...twin on a small V6 is kind of a wasted effort (looks cool though).
There are just too many things to look at before making statements that "it won't work" or "can run higher boost". It will work (efficiency comes into play) and boost it boost (doesn't matter how much...but does matter on how quick you can get it).
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
14.55 @ 96.01mph
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LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
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6/05/2002
01:37:59
| RE: Turbo!
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Message:
ok, ummm...if twin turbo does have an advantage until 350ci then why do cars like 3000GT VR4s(or Stealth TTs) and Audi TTs have twin turbo? 3000GT/Stealth has a 3.2 V6 and Audi TT has a 1.8 i think. why are those twin?? also chevy had a concept TT Trailblazer(4.2 I6) did they make all these cars just to sound cool?? i thought twin reduced turbo lag.
one more thing, why do superchargers add so much less hp?? from what you guys have said a super V6 would have ~250 hp and a turbo would have like 300+ hp i thought all boost was the same except superchargers robbed ~15 with the belt. any other reason why turbo would add more power or do u just want to sell turbo kits??
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Rooknute
Dodge Dakota
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6/05/2002
05:49:10
| RE: Turbo!
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Message:
Thanks for everyones help. There isnt much i can do now really until a kit is made and i can decide between the kits. For right now i think i'm going to keep looking into turbo and try to get a better understanding of it.
Hopefully the guys at speed tweaks arnt too busy this summer and can start working on it :) hint hint.. (well if IntenseDak39 was right)
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toxic13
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/05/2002
13:54:48
| RE: Turbo!
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Message:
Ll Blackdak, do some more research before you post next time, and please, for the love of all that is sacred, PAY ATTENTION TO DETAIL when reading posts here, especially by guys like Bernd and Slick.
First off, the Stealth/3000GT turbo models were 3.0l 90degree V6's. There's a number of reasons why these particular engines were twin turbo, the biggest one being room in the engine bay. To do a large single they would have had to run a collector pipe between the two manifolds and mount the turbo somewhere equadistant from them (efficiency). Well if you've ever done any work on one of these cars, you'll realize that there's absolutely no room to do this because you'd essentially have to run the collector underneath the engine which is quite a task being as it's a transversly mounted engine (ie: much of your driveline is mounted under/around your front end/engine). Then you would have to mount the turbo somewhere higher up in the engine bay, near a strut tower or the like... well good luck with that son. Understand?
It's all about efficiency, just like Bernd said. Not only efficiency in the operation and performance of the engine, but efficiency in the mass production of the car/engine itself.
Audi TT's aren't twin turbo'd, sorry. They're single turbo 1.8l. Dont' ask me why they're called TT, but they're not twin turbo.
As for your other questions/statements about less lag with twin, more power with single, more power with turbo over supercharger, well, you're being far to vague with all of this. There's much more to forced induction than Single, Twin, SC and none has any specific advantages over the others. There are many many things that come into play when adding forced induction to an engine. Exhaust flow, displacement, redline, NA bhp/tq, volumetric efficiency, compression ratio just to name a very few. Then you have to decide which turbo(s)/SC you're going with. Compressor wheel trim, housing size, turbine wheel, flow rating (CFM @ PSI) and again, that's just the very tip of the iceberg.
Do yourself a favor and pick up the book Maximum Boost by Corky Bell. It's a great resource for everything turbo.
-Marc
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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6/05/2002
14:31:01
| RE: Turbo!
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Message:
We've been telling him to get that book for about 9 months now, but he just can't get off his lazy a$$ and pay up $35 to buy the damn book. So he just posts half-baked questions here at this site all day. He pretty much hopes to glean all his knowledge about turbos and forced induction from a site dedicated to pick up trucks...... but that's LlBlackDik for ya.
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LI Blackdik
Dodge Dakota
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6/05/2002
15:09:56
| RE: Turbo!
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yep..but anyway. im not paying $35 for that book when i can get answers from u guys and make u mad at the same time for free!! I seem to remember something about TTs not actually being TT...that is really dumb. what does TT mean then, if not twin turbo?? just an audi model name or was the car Twin turbo at some point?
about the 3000GTs, i guess that makes sense. but what about the TT Trailblazer??? 4.2l is not close to 350 ci...why did they do that?? just to sound cool, or cause its just a concept car?
and about my questions, i pretty much have gathered the answers to all these questions already, what I am trying to do is get bernd and tom to narrow their range of HP gains on the 3.9 turbo.
so how about it bernd and tom??
how much hp on a 3.9 V6(and dont say 260-420!!! you know that 420 is way off and 260 is kind of low so give a range!!) how about 290-320?? will it be more or less then that??
I think it should come with guarantee that if install correctly u can take out a stock R/T with any V6(even a 4x4)
a torque estimate would be nice too :-) 300-350??
what do u think
turbo V6 CC 4x4 vs stock RC R/T? if the has any chance then there is no way I'm gonna get a turbo.
oh boy...i can feel the bad comments coming before i even post this
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Tom Slick
GenII
6/05/2002
15:42:10
| RE: Turbo!
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Message:
How about 270-340hp estimated for the 3.9L at 8psi boost.... just remeber, those are estimates!!!
Cost is another thing to look at with deciding between twins or single turbos. Why go twins on a smaller engine that won't see any addition benefits from it. Just more money spent.
We never said that you can't go with twin turbos on smaller engines, but you won't see any performance advantage.
Hope this makes things a little more clear...
Tom "Slick"
96 Dakota Sport 5.2 RC SB
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
6/05/2002
16:52:19
| RE: Turbo!
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Message:
"you know that 420 is way off and 260 is kind of low so give a range!!"
that is a range...
and i thought it was kinda funny that you thought a 3000GT had a 3.2 liter....
they cant pre so precise because the kit will be adjustable.... and also depends on what mods you have.. the tune of your engine.. the atmosphere you are in.... blah blah blah blah blah blah blah!
intensedak39
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LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/05/2002
16:55:57
| RE: Turbo!
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Message:
good answer!!!
what about torque??
what about the R/T??
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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6/05/2002
17:01:07
| RE: Turbo!
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Message:
If you would read the book, Ll Black, you'd understand how to determine your own horsepower outputs form a turbo installation. There's a really wide range of output levels because turbo's are ADJUSTABLE (but you have to read the book to find this stuff out). With an adjustable wastegate (read the book), you can run as little as approx. 270 hp like Tom mentioned. You can also get as much as approx 340 hp by adjusting the wastegate (read the book) to give you more boost. But you refuse to read the book, so I'm sure a good portion of this is completely beyond you. If you adjust the wastegate to run 14 psi (read the book), and you have the adequate fuel, ignition timing settings and everything else correctly tuned, then you will theoretically be able to DOUBLE your current horsepower output. A 180 horsepower V-6 could put out 360 hp. But that's all stuff that's in the book. If I remember correctly, it's in the FIRST CHAPTER (but you should read the book).
It's just amazing how stubbornly lazy you are. I really hope you are able to afford the turbo set-up from Speedtweaks. I also really hope some mechanic charges you $1500 to install a $5000 kit. I also really really hope that on the first day out, you fill it up with 87 octane gas, and then stomp the peddle coming out of the gas station. Then I really really really hope that pistons 1 and 2 melt right thru and seize your newly turbo'd motor. Then I hope the bank repo's your blown up truck and that you have to find some other board to go and annoy with your festering laziness. And I hope all the participants hate you there, as well. It's what you really seem to want, deep in your soul. Hatred. All because you wouldn't read the damn book. How pitiful is it that a college educated man won't read a book? It's pitiful. Just read the book. You are pitiful.
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LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/05/2002
17:06:05
| RE: Turbo!
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i meant to large of a range intense!!!
so i missed by .2 litres big deal!!! they don't make them anymore and i never had one.
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LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
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6/05/2002
17:12:29
| RE: Turbo!
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Message:
first of all i use 93 now cause 87 sux. second tom said 270 to 340 at 8 psi! you can't run 14 psi unless you modify your engine!!! third the said the kit would be $3500. why would it cost $1500 to get it installed?? thats excessive dont u think?? mechanics charger like $75-$80 an hour so your saying that it would take a mechanic ~18 hours to install bernds turbo?? I doubt it, so long as its 100% bolt on like bernd said.
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alex
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/05/2002
17:25:49
| RE: Turbo!
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Message:
Read the book.
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rooknute
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/05/2002
18:13:26
| RE: Turbo!
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Message:
Thanks to everyone for helping/explaning the turo kits more for me. (even LI Blackdak, without him no one would get all huffy and explain things :) Like i said before i think i'm just gonna wait untill the guys from speed tweaks come up with a single T for the 3.9L. Those two guys are really impressive with all the sh*t they do and know. Keep it up tweakers! You guys are the god's of the dakota!! :)
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stealwings
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/05/2002
18:15:32
| RE: Turbo!
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This is too funny. I think the moral of the story is READ THE BOOK!
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LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
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6/06/2002
00:42:02
| RE: Turbo!
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Message:
what fun would reading the book be?? besides, i can't read cause I'm a college student. and u guys are way too easy. this site is my source for dak info, it hasnt steered me wrong yet
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bernd
*GenIII*
6/06/2002
09:07:25
| RE: Turbo!
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Message:
18 hours (or $1500) to install??? Who said that? We don't even have the labor rates for the installations posted yet.
Count on about 5-6 hours on the Single and about 8 hours on the twin. The twin is actually easier to install than an ATI Supercharger with Intercooler (and they only use an air-air).
Uhhhh...did anyone mention that you can read all of this in a book? ;)
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
14.55 @ 96.01mph
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alex
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/06/2002
09:33:57
|  RE: Turbo!
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Message:
I was just hoping that he'd end up paying that much for an install. I just thought it would be funny for him to pay out $6500 to go as fast as a lightly modded V-8 since he refuses to sell his V-6 truck and just buy a lightly modded V-8.
That's me just being a sadistic bastard.
But that's an entirely different book.
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bernd
*GenIII*
6/06/2002
09:35:43
|  RE: Turbo!
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Message:
Ahem...i'm not selling my V6 anytime soon either. Got a problem with that?!? ;)
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
14.55 @ 96.01mph
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alex
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/06/2002
09:53:29
| RE: Turbo!
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Message:
I've been on this board since November of 2000, and I can't think of a single time when you have bitched about your V-6 truck being slow or underpowered. Since you've shown great initiative and actually done something (quite a few things) to overcome the anemic tendencies of the factory V-6, then, NO, I have no problem with you keeping your V-6 Dakota.
And besides, you've read the book. hahahahaha!
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LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
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6/06/2002
10:18:48
| RE: Turbo!
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i cant afford to sell it and if i could the car i got would not be a V8 dakota. the only way im ever getting a dak again is if they make a 5.7 R/T that doesnt look stupid. otherwise I'd get a 3.5 altima, a mustang GT of something like that.
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Rooknute
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/06/2002
13:27:14
|  RE: Turbo!
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Message:
bernd, i'v been wanting to ask you about the TB improvments you have on your site. I know this isnt the topic of this but i dont think you say the one i started about the TB improvments. I was really wondering if it is better to get a stock V8 TB or get one of the fastmans or flow?? Could you please give me your input on this. Thanks alot
Or anyone ealses input, i just picked bernd because its on speed tweaks that i say the TB's
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