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cody
Dodge Dakota
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9/03/2010
00:04:05
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 Subject: fouled plugs
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i have a 93 3.9L v6, 236k mi; i had to replace one of my head gaskets because i was getting coolant into the oil. after that im not losing coolant anymore, compression test looks good, no. 5 is a little on the high side, but im not too worried about it right now. i changed my oil after i got it all put back together, i put in three q's of oil and a quart of marvel mystery oil to clean it out from the coolant, my question is , is it a good idea to use the mystery oil to clean it out? and will that foul my plugs? if not what else could it be fouling them out?
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yea
Dodge Dakota
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9/03/2010
13:25:17
| RE: fouled plugs
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Won't foul your plugs, However if you are not using
a quality filter all is for not.
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Cody
Dodge Dakota
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9/03/2010
14:44:48
| RE: fouled plugs
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I just always used a fram ph16.
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yea
Dodge Dakota
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9/03/2010
15:13:56
| RE: fouled plugs
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Fram are the worst oil filters you can buy. They
collapse inside, Wix or NAPA gold series oil
filters. (made by Wix)
Stay clear of fram oil filters.
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2010
11:13:57
| RE: fouled plugs
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Are they fouled with oil or carbon? If they are oil fouled, did you install a new plenum gasket when you replaced the head gasket?
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read
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2010
10:37:50
| RE: fouled plugs
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"and will that foul my plugs?"
he never said he had fouled plugs
he asked IF it would foul his plugs
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2010
11:07:43
| RE: fouled plugs
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Message:
Read again:
"if not what else could it be fouling them out?"
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Cody
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2010
18:11:54
| RE: fouled plugs
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Yeah their fouled. I would say with carbon. Black and kinda
burnt looking. I replaced all intake manifold gaskets (
including the one under the throttle body) my exhaust has
the cat cut off ( clogged up on me) an a section of exhaust
pipe half ass clamped on for the time being, so it leaks i dont
know if that has anything to do with it or not
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2010
19:18:37
| RE: fouled plugs
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Is the O2 sensor still in the exhaust pipe? Check for codes. And if the O2 sensor is not in the exhaust or is missing that's probably the reason why your plugs are getting carbon fouled. It's running way too rich which will make mileage suck and dilute your engine oil too.
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Cody
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2010
00:03:32
| RE: fouled plugs
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The sensors still there and i check all the time for codes only
12&55. So nothing there. I havent noticed any fuel smell in
the oil ( i dont know if it would be noticeable)
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yea
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2010
10:21:10
| RE: fouled plugs
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Running a cat? or is it removed or gutted?
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Cody
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2010
20:58:17
| RE: fouled plugs
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Removed, peice of pipe clamped on for now. Leaks a bit
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2010
08:40:12
| RE: fouled plugs
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Again with the Fram filter haters. Fram took my last car to 308,200 miles with the engine running like new and no oil burning. The car finally rusted out, I saved the drivetrain as a spare/build for the replacement car. I've run Fram on 7 different cars with over 625,000 miles total, with absolutely no issues, all had engines running like new. Same for all my friends. If they were so awful, someone would have had a problem.
Back to the issue. Cody, did you replace the plugs after the HG failure, or are you running the same set?
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right
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2010
11:59:59
| RE: fouled plugs
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Message:
Bob no one really cares
More then not have had problems with fram
Get a grip
I mean seriously
you come on here and think you're always right and
know best
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yea
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2010
19:08:45
| RE: fouled plugs
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It's an egr motor you need the cat or it's going to
run like sh*t. Poor MPG's and run rich, rough idle.
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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9/08/2010
08:28:06
| RE: fouled plugs
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"More then not have had problems with fram"
"right", show me your source of data. Newspaper, automotive journals, any publication at all. Otherwise, it's meaningless.
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right
Dodge Dakota
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9/08/2010
11:12:16
| RE: fouled plugs
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Numerous posts on this very board!
So stick it where you like it bobby boy!
You hate being proven wrong.
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Ta Da
Dodge Dakota
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9/08/2010
11:38:47
| RE: fouled plugs
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http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f19/no-more-fram-
oil-filters-me-589979/
http://www.hyundai-forums.com/t5561-st-20-fram-
oil-filters-not-so-good.htm
http://www.f150online.com/forums/v8-
engines/366402-fram-oil-filter-no-good.html
http://www.caliberforums.com/forums/archive/index.
php/t-5719.html
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Cody
Dodge Dakota
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9/08/2010
12:47:20
| RE: fouled plugs
IP: Logged
Message:
Well i never had any problems out of them. I changed the
plugs out when i got it all put back together. The egr tube is
broke too right where it goes into the exhaust manifold. I put
a cover on the hole in the manifold in order to keep it from
blowing into the bay
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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9/09/2010
08:29:09
| RE: fouled plugs
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Message:
Here's a post from that first link:
"Well guys, I've used Fram filters for 33 years and I've only had one oil related engine problem and that was because I drove my Jeep in 90+ degree weather on the highway with a thermostat that was stuck closed (didn't know it was overheating). The oil coked up and clogged an oil gallery going to the valve train, so no oil to the head actually the engine still runs fine.
From one of the other links:
"Bluejay, I thank you for your opinion but unless you PERSONALLY can say you have had issues with this product, other than "work of mouth", your input is moot.... As I said, I have used FRAM for many years on other vehicles and have had to date, NO ISSUES.....
We are talking hundreds of thousands of miles over a number of vehicles... and I have never had a motor issue. That is FACT not OPINION....................."
This entire Fram bashing thread smacks of the talking point postings where people and often employees of companies are paid to start conversations which trash their competitors products and promote their own. Now days, it's very common online, Microsoft does it, my wife's company does it, it's now a new method of product promotion. Mysteriously I've seen this exact same anti-Fram thread format on other websites including a diesel tractor website. Each time they blast Fram filters by cutting one open and making claims about it being filled with cardboard. Which proves exactly nothing.
More importantly where are the actual links to independent research results from organizations like SAE (formerly the Society of Automotive Engineers) with filtration test results showing how well these filters remove the size particles which cause the most wear? This is the real test of a filter. Any brand filter can and will fail in the right conditions (nothing is perfect). Company claims and test results are worthless.
I've used countless Fram oil filters over the years, I've owned A LOT of vehicles. I currently own 5 vehicles and a diesel tractor (which is equipped with a Fram filter). Again I've never had an engine failure except for the one which I mentioned above. I literally have never had to replace or have major engine work done to a single one of the many vehicles I've used Fram filters on. I've owned, Chevy, Datsun (several), Renault, Mazda, Nissan (several), Jeep (several), Honda, Ford (several), Saturn. Never owned a Toyota however. I've driven a couple of the engines to just under 300,000 miles, again with no engine work. Usually, the vehicle steering, suspension, body, transmission, etc. are so worn/rusted out it's collectively finished. I do change my oil regularly at 3000 miles which is very important. Currently I own a Ford bucket truck with 240,000 miles on it and zero engine work. I always use the cheapest name brand oil and filter available. It's almost always a Fram filter and the cheap oil of the month.
I'm an electrical engineering laboratory manager and I work with an ex-Ford factory engineer. He has a PhD in mechanical engineering and designed the engine control system on the Ford 5.4L engine. Yes I have one and yes I've asked him why they rev up on start up. I've asked him about synthetic oil vs conventional oil and about this oil filter nonsense. He always laughs when I do. This is a man who spends dozens of hours ever week testing engines in an engine test cell. Someone whose job it is to come to work and study how engine systems fail. He says buying expensive oils etc is literally a waste of money, if a reputable oil and a clean filter is used and changed regularly (based on usage) you should get long life from the engine.
I have to admit, for 33 years I've been doing just what he claims and I've had very very good success with it, so I know he's right.
My advice, buy whatever filter you want and whatever oil you want, just change that oil and replace that filter regularly and you won't have a problem. Spend a lot, or a little, your engine won't know the difference
So, go ahead and cut your Fram filters in half, I'll keep mine on my vehicles (or whatever brand filter is cheapest this week) and get at least 200,000 miles out of my engines."
None of these "forums" (which is not a scientific publication) has any real data to support their claims. By real data, I mean that this is what is needed to support your claim:
Number of filters sold per year of all major brands.
Number of miles driven for cars using each brand.
Average number of miles driven between oil and filter changes for each brand.
Number of engine failures that were actually analyzed and traced back to the filter as the root cause.
Industry average over the years, of the average number of engine failures per million miles that are specifically attributed to filter failure (and nothing else, such as human error, abuse, lack of proper maintenance).
Until you can produce such data, your claims are meaningless.
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LOL
Dodge Dakota
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9/09/2010
10:08:43
| RE: fouled plugs
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bob you're a class A-butthole
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