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all right
Dodge Dakota
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8/28/2008
14:13:57
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 Subject: RE: New motor wont start!
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outlawstar766 how bout an update?
You get that beast running yet?
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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8/28/2008
14:19:36
| RE: New motor wont start!
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^ definitely an update is in order so we can get back to the task at hand and get this truck going again.
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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8/28/2008
20:13:02
|  RE: New motor wont start!
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not that I will be able to help.
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outlawstar766
Dodge Dakota
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8/28/2008
20:22:54
|  RE: New motor wont start!
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okay got an update for ya'll. Didnt have much time to work on it today but heres the run down
pulled the spark plug from cyl 1, found tdc with the compression gauge and the mark on the timing cover.. ( btw theres two marks on this motor, one is across the whole surface and one is halfway, ive been using the full length mark and centering it on the 0 mark.) is that the right one, and why do i think i should be setting it at the 5 degree before tdc mark?)
I pulled the dist cap and move the body to line up the rotor with the mark on the plate ( i set it just before the mark taking into account the clockwise rotation)
i rechecked the that all the plug wires were seated and used a timing light to check for spark which there was, although the blinking light seemed erractic, i think due to the battery being pretty drained from starting attempts. I rechecked my grounds and my connections back there ( the pickup sensor, the cam sensor).
finally i gave her a try. I got about the same result as before. You can here each side "pop" in the firing order and exhaust rise up from the gap between the motor and manifolds ( autozone ordered the wrong bolts so they're still not bolted in. after about 2 or 3 tries , i got a small backfire.
i also tried leaving the hold down for the distributor loose and rotated it a few degrees in either direction ( like setting the timing on my bro's toyota) with no change better or worse.
i got a few questions for you guys,
the pickup sensor that looks down at the flywheel- i didnt put the rubber surround around the sensor. would that affect it? i cant tell if that sensor uses a magnet or a light to detect the holes in the flywheel perimeter.
also i used bosch platinum spark plugs, but recently ive been told that dodges dont run well on anything but champion, could this be hindering me?
ill be under the hood again tomora morning, gonna hit the hardware store and find some bolts to use on the manifolds and tighten the motor mounts before i go at the starting issue again. i still got the front end up on jacks and its killing my back trying to lean over the front!
thanks for your help guys, its much appreciated
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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8/29/2008
10:04:51
| RE: New motor wont start!
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the first thing you need to do is go back and set the distributor up for the rotor to point at #1 with #1 cyl @ TDC on the compression stroke and lock it down. turning it will do nothing but screw up the injector sync, the PCM controls timing.
the rubber grommet that fits around the CPS shouldn't be causing any problems. i've been running mine without it for about 4 yrs now. the bosch platinums should not be the source of your problem either. been running those in mine for about 3 yrs.
now make sure that battery gets a full charge. a weak battery can wreak havoc even if it seems ok and turns the motor over.
check your fuel pressure. are your ignition system parts new or did you swap them from the old engine? if you swapped them i assume the old engine was running fine intil the end?
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outlawstar766
Dodge Dakota
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8/29/2008
10:39:04
| RE: New motor wont start!
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ok, sounds good. i kept all the old fuel system parts. When i first got the truck it did start and run with the original motor ( just had that lovely broken rod sound). im gonna borrow a battery charger once i get out to the truck today and let it charge while im reseting the distributor.
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shadetree
Dodge Dakota
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8/29/2008
13:25:01
| RE: New motor wont start!
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Do the marks inside the timing cover line up, because if there not then its really hard to even get the fuel sync close enough to run. Ive heard that this can be a pain to check so I would try daddio's suggestion first.
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outlawstar766
Dodge Dakota
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8/29/2008
16:51:45
| RE: New motor wont start!
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well she got damn close to running today.
i reset tdc but this time i put the mark at 5 degrees before tdc. i aligned the rotor with the mark on the dist. body and tried starting her. it sounded promising so i cranked it while stepping on the gas pedal and it ran for a few seconds ( with out the starter) before it quit.
i was wondering if a ground issue wasnt helping. If im correct the engine gets grounded to the frame via the motor mounts. I hadnt tightened them up till this morning before i tried starting it.
I think tommorow im gonna try reseting the tdc and line everything up again at the zero mark and see if i gets better or worse.
as for the marks on the timing chain. If your refering to the marks that you'd line the chain up with, i didnt mess with them. bought this motor from a junkyard so the timing cover never came off.
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outlawstar766
Dodge Dakota
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8/29/2008
17:56:58
| RE: New motor wont start!
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i just did some googling on dakotas, I found one website that said ( at least on a 4.7 dakota) not to use anything but copper core plugs or pre ignition can happen, and that the spark plug wires must be routed correct or cross ignition can occur, i know my wires are bit of a mess at the moment , just wondering if you guys have any experience with those problems?
im gonna add straightening out my wires to the list of things to try tomorrow, if the rain holds off :)
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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8/29/2008
18:39:05
| RE: New motor wont start!
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i believe you are incorrect on the grounding the engine through the motor mounts. there should be a ground strap on the back of the motor to the firewall. in fact on my '00 there is a ground strap on one of the passenger side valve cover bolts that goes to the firewall. do you have any kind of servie manual. also eveytime you try to start it, check for codes. somehitng may pop up.
as i stated earlier the Bosch reg. platinum plugs should not be an issue but if you feel you need to or it's time to, change them out.
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outlawstar766
Dodge Dakota
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8/29/2008
18:54:41
|  RE: New motor wont start!
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Thanks, theres always oppurtunities to learn. I did find theres 3 ground wires on the back of this motor, 1 shares a bolt with the tranny dipstick, 1 with valve cover bolt near the tranny dipstick, and the other is on the back of the driver side cylinder head, that one wasnt connected till today, found that i had missed it.
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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8/29/2008
19:30:34
| RE: New motor wont start!
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do you have any type of service manual to reference to? that would probably come in handy.
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outlawstar766
Dodge Dakota
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8/29/2008
20:48:13
| RE: New motor wont start!
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ive been using a haynes repair manual. And i took plently of digital pictures during the tear down removing the old motor.
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outlawstar766
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2008
18:55:38
| RE: New motor wont start!
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well good news fellas, she ran today. I discovered the dist. cap got damage when the rotor spring got bent so i replaced them both, reset the tdc and all the marks and when i gave her gas she started
the bad news is its not running perfect yet. it'll die out at idle,but if i stay on the gas, at least 1500 rpm, she stay running. wondering if i need to tweak the rotor to more centered over the mark on the cam sensor, i still set it slight before as recommended in one of these posts.
thanks for the help ya'll
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2008
20:34:02
| RE: New motor wont start!
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take your battery out and have it load tested. the first sign of a weak battery is loss of idle memory. the truck will start but not idle. it won't cost anything to get it tested. glad to hear it is alive and almost well!
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trev1
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2008
21:24:11
| RE: New motor wont start!
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I don't post very often, but after reading all the posts, it sounds like the injector synk is out. Take and recheck it. Line the center of the rotor up with the #1 mark on the crank pos sensor. Make sure the motor is at TDC #1 when doing this. I had a HE?? of a time with mine. A little here does a lot....
Trevor in SWMO
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outlawstar766
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2008
22:26:36
| RE: New motor wont start!
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sounds good daddio, the battery still hasnt been properly charged yet, to attempt the starting i did today i had to jump it since i had left the key in the on position yesterday (whoops)...
next time i get out there ill charge the battery properly and realigned everything perfect on center and see if that smoothes out the injector sync
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Curly
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2008
22:41:27
| RE: New motor wont start!
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"the battery still hasnt been properly charged yet"
That could be most of your problems right there. I also think you'll need a scanner or something to get the fuel sync correct on an 01.
Keep us updated, We're all following this thread.
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outlawstar766
Dodge Dakota
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8/31/2008
13:53:35
| RE: New motor wont start!
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ill know tomora evening how much the battery was being part of the issue. It was a brand new battery when i started this work but all the tries to start killed it. its gonna spend today on a charger and when i get out of work tomora i'll see how it does. now im off to go google about fuel sync.
thanks
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outlawstar766
Dodge Dakota
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9/02/2008
14:40:56
| RE: New motor wont start!
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alright, i thinkive done everything you can do mechanically to get this truck running. I charged the battery and rechecked the whole ignition set up and she's still running rough. The only way i got her to stay running (without my foot on the pedal) was to put a small wedge between the throttle stop and the spring.
so at this point i figure its the fuel sync that needs adjusted and since its $9k for the drb III scanner, ill be taking it to a shop to finish the job.
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