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Jimmy9190
Dodge Dakota
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2/10/2008
21:16:57
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 Subject: How to stop ping in 3.9
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I need help please, I have a 2001 CC with 3.9 5-speed, 83,000 miles. Truck began pinging a few months ago, and MPG was down some so I put in the Napa better OE grade $36.00 wires, 3923's, Napa cap and rotor. The truck did ok for a while but the ping came back a week ago. Yesterday I put half a can of Sea Foam down the TB and the other half in the tank. It had less than half a tank of 87 octaine Chevron gas at the time. Drove the truck and ping was still there but not as bad so I put in the Autolite AP 5224's today. Drove it again today, truck was pinging like a popcorn popper getting up on the interstate and still pinging but a little less when cruising at 75 mph. I had run most of the gas out so I filled up with 89 octaine mid grade Texaco. Ping was pretty much gone with that gas but would still ping under a hard throttle.
Does it take a while for the Sea foam in the tank to dissipate and maybe it will not ping after it's all cleared out? When I put Sea foam in the TB, there was no smoke while the engine was running and it smoked some but only for a couple minutes after it sat for about 15 minutes. Will it or can it get better with time?
Belly pan seems to be fine. Am not burning any oil and there is no oil in the bottom of the TB/top of manifold. Truck runs well, has no bad idle or hesitation so I don't think there is a vacuum leak. I always use good quality gas, never any cheap stuff and I keep the oil changed at 2800 to 3000 miles, every time.
There has to be a way to get rid of the ping. These engine's didn't all have ping when they were new. I am at my wit's end and ready to call the dealer to see if they can swap in a 3.7..Any help is greatly appreciated. I have tried everything I can by searching here. I really like my truck but the ping has got to go.
Jimmy
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pete
Dodge Dakota
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2/10/2008
22:33:37
|  RE: How to stop ping in 3.9
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Might have a major vacuum leak or bad knock sensor check and see if have either codes P0325,P0326,P0330,P0331. P0325-refers to Knock sensor 1 circuit malfunction(left cylinder bank)
P0326-Knock sensor 1 circuit range/performance(left cylinder bank, P0330-Knock sensor 2 malfunction(right cylinder bank), P0331- Knock sensor 2 circuit range/performance(right cylinder bank) Other thoughts coolant? passageways in block restritced blocked hot spot on piston or hole in piston valves burned pitted lot things vacuum gauge reading could rule out if you don't have codes and good compression test all cylinders 100 psi min 40 psi max variation between cylinders. Good Luck at this approach I would take. And that lucky plenum gasket leaking culpit problem with these engines. Stuck 02 sensor on lean side, fuel pressure list can go on .
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GB2000
GenIII
2/10/2008
22:34:01
| RE: How to stop ping in 3.9
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http://dodgeram.org/tech/gas/Trouble/ping.htm
This should help...
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dakota49
Dodge Dakota
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2/11/2008
08:33:06
| RE: How to stop ping in 3.9
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I don't think the 3.9 uses knock sensors, other Chrysler products do, but not the 3.9. If you go to the dealer, they will reflash the computer and it will stop pinging, but they remove some of the timing, (retard timing) less fuel mileage,
less power, less overall driveability. what you really neeed is to increase the fuel. It could be caused by an 02 sensor, making it run too lean
(not enough fuel) that can happen even if it doesn't have a code for the 02 sensor.
Good Luck
Dakota49
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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2/11/2008
08:59:21
| RE: How to stop ping in 3.9
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that's a good article that GB put the link up for. pinging, engine temp, timing, poor gas, vacuum leak and there are other causes.
i'd start with reading the spark plugs. here are a couple of sites to help you with reading them.
http://www.dansmc.com/Spark_Plugs/Spark_Plugs_catalog.html
or
http://www.centuryperformance.com/spark2.asp
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pete
Dodge Dakota
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2/11/2008
10:19:50
| RE: How to stop ping in 3.9
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These codes are listed in my books I thought these trucks didn't have KNOCK sensors either but they do ,new plugs would only make ping worse
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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2/11/2008
10:56:23
| RE: How to stop ping in 3.9
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the only dak engine that has a knock sensor is the 4.7HO. non of the LA based magnum motors used knock sensors.
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Jimmy9190
Dodge Dakota
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2/11/2008
12:40:48
| RE: How to stop ping in 3.9
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Checked for codes thru the ignition and odometer at lunch. No codes stored but the O2 does seem a very logical solution. Truck has 83,000 miles now, how long does an o2 last, anyway?
I will check the O2's with a voltmeter whan I get home. Thanks for the help and if anyone has any more info I appreciate it very much.
Jimmy
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pete
Dodge Dakota
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2/11/2008
12:43:54
| RE: How to stop ping in 3.9
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Agree,daddio factory service manual only shows P0325&P0330, and what I posted earlier came a Haynes manual which I hardly use for reference pictures only if I need better understanding what Iam looking for
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Jimmy9190
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2008
10:46:37
| RE: How to stop ping in 3.9
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Tried to check the upstream O2 sensor with a meter but never got a good read on any of the wires going to it. It was the right side sensor in front of the cat. I couldn't reach the wires on the driver's side sensor and ran out of time anyway. On the other sensor there was one wire that read about 12 volts, I guess it was for the heater? And there was another that read about .4 volts constantly. The other 2 wires read as ground. The way I understand it the signal from the O2 is supposed to fluctuate rapidly between .1 and 1 volt. Does this sound like a lazy sensor? I have no codes stored but I know a lazy sensor won't always throw a code.
I'm not pinging near as bad with the 89 octaine gas. It's also cooler outside now and that makes me wonder if the 180 tstat might help the pinging? I have no mods other than I removed the rubber flap and elbow from the air inlet. I found a good post to home brew a K&N intake though and wonder if that might help too to cool things off in the engine and help stop the ping?
Any info is greatly appreciated.
Jimmy
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2008
10:54:57
| RE: How to stop ping in 3.9
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yes, the 180 tstat will help. anything to bring engine/ combustion chamber temps down will help. some poeple have stated using a surficant such as "Water Wetter" has helped.
on my '00 i run a 195 tstat, electric fan only, CPS mod which advances timing a little, Bosch reg. platinum plugs one range colder than stock. the only time it pings is when i put Shell gas in it. i don't know what they put in that stuff but my trucl doesn't like it. and i buy gas at the cheapest places i can. shop-rite, wal-mart, etc....
as far as your O2 readings, i'm not sure if a voltmeter can register the changes on the O2 voltages as quickly as they change. that could give you a false reading. i've used a DVOM to measure resistance on an o2 and checked it that way.
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pete
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2008
10:57:44
| RE: How to stop ping in 3.9
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J on my 02 drivers side with wheel off or turn all the way in one direction theres a inspection door in the wheel skirt not sure if this is what they call it but anyways can access your upstream 02 sensor on drivers side not sure bout right side if same can be a pain in the A$s espicially if you dont have a scanner that gives you freeze data, spend a few bucks extra of you have it will save your hands and fingers from getting a messed up, your 02 should change up to 5 times a second if it stays steady voltage with little change I would say 02 is bad be sure probing the right wire which sounds like you are be careful not to short out can happen
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Jimmy9190
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2008
16:04:47
| RE: How to stop ping in 3.9
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Thanks guys for the help. I was using a digital volt ohm meter to test the O2. I'll look for the access panels and try to get a better test on the O2's, thanks Pete. They are calling for heavy rain tonight so I won't be able to test until maybe tomorrow.
I know what you mean about Shell gas Daddio, mine does the same with Amoco for some reason.
Does anyoine know if the code readers you can get at parts stores will read the voltages from the O2 sensors? Or do you have to have a code set from pcm to show there is incorrect signal or voltage from the sensor before a scanner will tell you anything about the sensor's condition?
Thanks,
Jimmy
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dakota49
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2008
20:48:25
| RE: How to stop ping in 3.9
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I don't know about code scaners you can get at the parts store, but if you take the o2 out and put it in a vise, then heat it up with a propane torch, it will change very fast if its ok, if not its bad. You need to try to completely envolope the sensor with the flame to get rid of as much oxygen as possible and it should show up on your volt meter.
Good Luck
Dakota49
1988 3.9 4X4 5speed
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my 2 pennies
Dodge Dakota
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2/13/2008
10:32:34
| RE: How to stop ping in 3.9
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Message:
my opinions
if its an EGR motor then check it
cooling system flush
and new T stat
my pref is the 190 - 195
180 seems to make *most* use more gas
after you refill your cooling system new rad cap
and a bottle of Red Lines "Water Weter"
Good and complete tune up
(brass insert cap an rotor)
plugs, wires, cap, rotor
NGK FR5 plugs are great for the money
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Jimmy9190
Dodge Dakota
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2/13/2008
12:18:17
| RE: How to stop ping in 3.9
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My 3.9 has no EGR. The cooling system has been flushed twice in the last 2 years, once when I had it done and again when the body shop fixed it after I hit a deer last summer.
I am going to try the 180 tstat and add a home made K&N cold air intake before swapping out the O2's. If it keeps pinging after that I'll change the O2's then. I don't have any codes stored right now but I have no way to tell if the O2's are lazy at this point. If the 180 doesn't work I can always go back to the 195. I am going to try this intake:
http://www.geocities.com/atvnut808/intake.html?20089
Truck is running real good on the AP 5224's and after a lot of searching here, I hope the colder shot of air and cooler tstat help to end the ping. More guys here said it helped than those who said it didn't, so it can't hurt to try.
Thanks everybody for all your help. Any more ideas are very much appreciated.
Jimmy
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GB2000
GenIII
2/13/2008
13:03:52
| RE: How to stop ping in 3.9
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You know...you can also just buy a K&N drop in filter, cut a hole in the front of your airbox, and remove the rubber flap next to your radiator (so air can flow into that hole) and you'll get the same effect as that intake...actually it may bring in even cooler air than the one in that link...plus it'll look much better.
Or...this is what I did...it looks awesome!
http://www.dakota-truck.net/UPGRADES/FABM/fabmdml.html
(Follow the route of the Edelbrock 1208 air cleaner...a 14" won't fit on the newer 3.9's)
Total cost: ~$25 + whatever air filter you choose (comes with a cheap paper filter, but I'd imagine you'll wanna go with a K&N or something higher flowing).
The Edelbrock 1208 costs about $20 at Autozone. It even has the breather nipple to hook the breather hose up to. You may have to shorten the hose to get it to fit...I just had to reroute it slightly. No cutting required.
Then all you need is a short length of 1/4"x20 threaded rod...couple bucks at home depot to make an S-Bolt since the stock air hat hold-down bolt on the throttle body won't work with that intake.
http://www.blackshireserver.net/OhioDakotas/pdf/Speedtweaks%20Tips%20And%20Tricks.pdf -- Scroll down to page 22 or search for s-bolt to get info on making the s-bolt. Hint of advice, the picture is NOT accurate so don't make the bolt fit on the pic. However, what I did...was get a protractor and draw up an accurate picture of it, then bend the road to fit the picture perfectly. Worked great.
Oh, also, the part number for the K&N filter in that article is slightly off FYI...it will work, but you really gotta squeeze that filter in there. That filter has a 10" diameter and is 2" tall...the air cleaner also has a 10" diameter. I'm not sure what the part number is, but if you go with the next size down giving it a 9.xx diameter @ 2" tall, it will fit much easier.
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mike stager
Dodge Dakota
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2/13/2008
14:48:59
| RE: How to stop ping in 3.9
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Have you done a vacuum test to make sure you don't have any problems mechanically ( intake gasket leak ). A vacuum gauge and the simple section in almost any repair manual dealing with this are very helpful tools in determining if you have anything going wrong mechanically in your engine. Ping is usually caused by pre ignition or running too lean.
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Jimmy9190
Dodge Dakota
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3/04/2008
20:02:59
| RE: How to stop ping in 3.9
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Update on the ping problem. I did a Sea Foam treatment, half a can down the TB and half in the gas tank. It didn't help much. Added 1 bottle of Regane, it seemed to do better than Sea Foam, ran a tank with no additives then did another bottle of Regane on the next tank. I used all 87 octaine from Sunoco. Truck was still pinging and seemed to be getting worse so I put in some plain 3923's from Walmart 2 days ago. They didn't really help at all. So I paid a shop to do their fuel induction service, which is a fuel treatment in the tank, some chemical cleaner down the TB and a vacuum-forced induction chemical cleaning of the combustion chambers. The tech said it blew a big white cloud of smoke out the tail pipe for about 5 minutes on the test drive. Truck still pinged but but was better and has been progressively better since. Today there was ablsolutely no ping, even when I gas it to pass another car. If it don't ping any more for a few more days, I want to pull out the 3923's and put back in the AP 5224's and I hope it won't start pinging again. I had tried about 3 different kinds of plugs trying to get rid of the ping, and my truck ran the best and got the best MPG with that plug, gapped at .045. If the ping comes back, I'll try the 180 thermostat. That's about the only thing I haven't tried yet.
Has anybody here had their truck ping when the weather cools off? That's when mine seems to ping the worst but I thought ping usually was worse in hot weather. Mine does better in warm weather. Maybe my PCM is used to the climate here in Florida and our occasional cold fronts which will give us daytime temps of 50 to 60 degrees cause the PCM to go wacky with the air-fuel mix?
Jimmy
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pete
Dodge Dakota
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3/04/2008
23:28:34
| RE: How to stop ping in 3.9
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Jimmy9190 from mechanic to another mechanic knock sensor usually located below intake manifold in the valley between the cylinder heads on most V-6's & V-8's and there are two one for each bank, but also can found threaded on engine block again one on each side.
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Michael K
Dodge Dakota
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8/19/2014
11:30:22
| RE: How to stop ping in 3.9
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Same problem in my 2000 Dakota, which only pings at operating temperature. I was told by several Dodge techs that the ping is just a feature of the 3.9: the latest comment was that the 3.9 has "pissed pistons." But I have trouble believing it - I've been driving for 45 years, and never had a car ping that didn't have a problem.
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