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dcocuzzo
Dodge Dakota
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12/18/2007
07:53:01
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 Subject: At Wits End
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OK- I've posted before- I have a 98 Dak 3.9 V6 2wd all stock- had check engine light on, various codes (TPS, Crank Pos Sensor, catalytic converter etc). Symptoms are that the truck runs fine, but when it gets to a certain temp, will buck and fart, the check engine light flashes, then it runs fine after a few minutes. Went through the thing- replaced TPS, Crank Pos Sensor and catalytic converter. Runs great; then the same thing- but I got NEW codes- random misfire (P0300) and codes for misfires on all of the cylinders- and it differed each time I reset the codes. So, I replaced the distributor cap, rotor, ignition pickup, plugs, wires, coil... All to no avail- same codes. Then I checked the fuel pressure, found it was WAY off (80PSI while running; 0PSI when off) so replaced the fuel pump/press. regulator package and cleaned the injectors. STILL the same misfire codes and symptoms. Since it seemed temp related, I also replaced the IAT sensor- to no effect. The shop down the road checked it out and they are stumped- the local Dodge dealer checked the PCM and it is OK and has all of the current updates. Can anyone out there help with this one? Has anyone experienced this before? I have a new coolant temp sensor, should I try that next? I cannot re-register the car as-is. Any help is appreciated!
Thanks, Dave
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shadetree
Dodge Dakota
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12/18/2007
08:11:24
| RE: At Wits End
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I would check to make sure all the timing marks line up and then I would check compression and cylinder leakage. After that Im stumped mabye someone else has a suggestion.
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me
Dodge Dakota
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12/18/2007
09:21:27
| RE: At Wits End
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Temp sensor?
bad pcm?
bad or corroded connection at pcm?
I read the stealer checked the pcm
However some of your symptoms still lead me to think it is still a possibility
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ES
Dodge Dakota
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12/19/2007
03:06:29
| RE: At Wits End
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Cam position sensor or what ever that pickup is in the distributor. All i rememeber is thats in charge of firing the injectors. Also if the distributor has a lot of side to side play in it it can cause some sort of mis fire as well.
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Eastcoast
Dodge Dakota
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12/19/2007
08:58:00
| RE: At Wits End
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Same Problem - 270000KM - I replaced temp sensor, air sensor, map sensor, distributer pickup, O2 sensors,
Borrowed a coil, crank sensor & computer (buddies truck)
Dealer checked crank play, distributer bushings, wiring, fuel pressure, wiring - been at the dealer for the last week and a half
About the only thing I haven't replaced is the throttle Position Sensor
mine too will end up being "junk" if it can't be found
Let me know if anything turns up - Keith
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dcocuzzo
Dodge Dakota
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12/19/2007
12:34:59
|  RE: At Wits End
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Thanks for this- I thought perhaps a worn distributor (and I will check) but I can't understand how it would be temp related- I mean this only happens after coming up to temp and then mysteriously goes away again, not to occur again until the next drive cycle (i.e. cool-down and re-start up to temp). I was wondering what the logic was- like the fuel mapping changes when it is off of the cold-start circuit and the timing adjusts... or tries to! I will check the PCM connector- that's a good thought, but again, temp related how?? I love the truck or I wouldn't be trying so hard! -Dave
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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12/19/2007
12:37:06
| RE: At Wits End
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have you changed the engine temp sensor?
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dcocuzzo
Dodge Dakota
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12/19/2007
12:40:12
|  RE: At Wits End
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Ya know, it seems so elementary- I bought one (they're cheap) but didn't install it 'cuz the resistance test on the old one seemed to fall within the specs... Maybe I should do it anyway (embarrassed redness). This weekend's project I guess!
Thanks, Dave
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EastCoast
Dodge Dakota
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12/19/2007
12:42:05
| RE: At Wits End
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daddio
Water temp sensor - that and the thermostat were the first (after the O2 sensors).
Dealer is trying to re-index the Distributor
then ???
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dcocuzzo
Dodge Dakota
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12/19/2007
12:44:07
| RE: At Wits End
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Punt? Like I said, I love the truck... but I can't re-register unless I pass emissions so I'm currently SOL.
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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12/19/2007
13:23:56
| RE: At Wits End
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Eastcoast, i was aiming my post @ dcocuzzo. in you're case i don't believe re-indexing the distributor will help any.
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EastCoast
Dodge Dakota
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12/20/2007
07:59:07
|  RE: At Wits End
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dcocuzzo
After about 6 hours of trial and eeeeeror over a week and a half, the Dealer (yeah those boys) found what may be the problem.
What they found was the centerhead gasket leaking - only stands to reason - steel heads and Alum centerhead - contracting and expanding at different rates, thus the symptons durning warm-up (i.e. when the thermostat opens).
I have mine torn apart and should know for sure by tomorrow (you could see where the centerhead was moving on the gasket to the right side head).
Backyard testing:
required: Slip joint plyers (adjustable?), some clean shop rags, wd40 (or similar) and a buddy.
Proecedure:
- remove the plastic air duct from the top of the throtle body and move out of the way
- have buddy start the truck and stay there
- place rags over the top of the throtle body (stop air flow)
- if centerhead is leaking, truck should still run
- verify where it is leaking by spraying wd40 arrount the centerhead
Possible temporary fix / spring-fall preventative maintance:
re-torque the centerhead during spring and fall "tune-up" - if that doesn't work, then you will have to replace the gasket (I tore mine apart before I thought about trying to retorque it - the gasket looked good - just showed where it had been working)
Torquing procedure - According to the Hayes book, it is a 5 step procedure with a specific sequence for the 12 bolts - check your book or your local "pro" - you may have to move the Alternator (or compressor if you have air) out of the way to get at the front bolts - the rear one on the drivers side may be a little hard to get at also.
I will be putting my truck back together tonight and will post an update tomorrow.
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dcocuzzo
Dodge Dakota
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12/20/2007
08:12:21
|  RE: At Wits End
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Eastcoast- sounds like a plan- I will try that myself if the weather holds either today or tomorrow...
Thanks! Dave
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MT Tom
Dodge Dakota
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12/20/2007
12:34:45
| RE: At Wits End
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Glad to see, sort of, that someone else has this problem. My '93 has done it the last 2 winters as well. But only seems to do it when it gets cold outside, mayube 30's and below. Seen several mechanics and a dealer who all shrugged their shoulders and said,"It seems like a sensor problem but they are all in spec. Run it until something breaks and then we can fix it." More glad that someone may have found the cure.
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dakota49
Dodge Dakota
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12/20/2007
19:39:00
| RE: At Wits End
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I'm confussed, there are only 2 heads on my 3.9 V6, so where is the 3rd center head? I'm guessing the intake manifold gasket. Cause the 3.9 doesn't use any aluminum heads, but the intake is aluminum.
Good Luck
Dakota49
1988 3.9 4X4 5speed
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EastCoast
Dodge Dakota
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12/25/2007
21:19:39
|  RE: At Wits End
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dcocuzzo
I also ended up having to change the crank sensor - it is located behind the right side (passenger) head - two 1/2 bolts. one of them is hard to get at - I didn't have my crowsfoot sockets so I had to stand the open end of a 1/2 wrench on end and use a screw driver to turn it through the box end.
Hope this helps
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EastCoast
Dodge Dakota
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12/25/2007
21:25:37
|  RE: At Wits End
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dakota49
yeah, you are right - us old school boys have always called the intake manifold a centerhead (in the old days of cast iron, it weighed as much as the other two)
have a good one
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gordo746
Dodge Dakota
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4/27/2008
20:46:29
| RE: At Wits End
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I am having similar problem on my 96 dakota v6, have changed plugs,wires,cap,rotor,coil,02 sensors, and cat, and did a tbi service.problem goes away for a while then comes back. also seems temp related, once engine is warmed up, its fine, but sometimes when weather is cool and damp or raining it wont even stay running long enough to warm up,this is sometimes accompanied by loud backfires codes are always coil and multiple missfires.have changed coil twice since problem first came up about a year ago. buddy who is mechanic checkedit/said/computer/im/not/so/sure
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daksport02
Dodge Dakota
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4/27/2008
21:16:56
| RE: At Wits End
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Same thing is happening to me. It is your head gasket.
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gordo746
Dodge Dakota
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4/30/2008
21:36:10
|  RE: At Wits End
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daksport02, I assume you mean its leaking, but I have no oil or water leaks anywhere so do you mean it is leaking vacuum? could it be intake gasket leak or tbi gasket also? do I need a compression gauge to check? any help would be appreciated,also I have replaced all ignition parts except pick up coil and crank sensor and pcm buddy says problem is pcm. where can I get a decent pcm? should I try a MSD6AL?
Anyone out there have any ideas? this problem has been driving me nuts for about a year.
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siouxfan
Dodge Dakota
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5/01/2008
14:59:08
| RE: At Wits End
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Where did you get the gasket for the intake manifold, and how hard is it to do yourself?
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