| From | Message |
Lesley
GenIII
 
10/30/2001
23:08:13
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 Subject: V8 TB & Emission Testing
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Message:
I'm awaiting installation of the V8 TB I bought, and a friend mentioned that he thought it could wreak havoc with my upcoming emissions test. Are there any Canadian dak owners who can tell me whether this will violate current restrictions or not?
97 3.9 V6 Sport Club Cab. Black.
Quick D Intake.
Awaiting Installation: JBA headers, V8 R/T TB,
Autolite 3923s with Borg Warner Wires
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bernd
*GenIII*
10/31/2001
00:06:17
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
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Message:
Unless they physically check the part number on the TB or measure the bore, they can't tell the difference on a visual check. Emissions wise, it shouldn't cause any excessive emissions either as the PCM will control A/F mixture. If they check under WOT, it may have slightly more emissions output...but highly doubt that it will cause it to fail.
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged @ 10# w/Nitrous
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Lesley
GenIII
10/31/2001
08:17:07
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
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Message:
Thanks Bernd. The truck goes in this week for its 80,000 km. checkup, I'm going to have them replace both 02 sensors.
97 3.9 V6 Sport Club Cab. Black.
Quick D Intake.
Awaiting Installation: JBA headers, V8 R/T TB,
Autolite 3923s with Borg Warner Wires
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Lesley
GenIII
10/31/2001
17:19:42
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
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Message:
Guess what... those asshøles at the dodge dealership virtually REFUSE to replace the 02 sensor. I suggested it the last time they replaced the cat - I checked back & they didn't do it. I asked them to do it, they gave me several reasons (patronizingly) why it wasn't necessary. I talked to them today to book the routine checkup & again told them that I wanted them to replace the sensor in front of the cat. I explained that the diagnostic can sometimes miss a bad sensor and replacing it would probably solve all the cat problems. They think I'm retarded. So, I called an aftermarket parts place & ordered one, THEY knew what I was talking about, they even knew that I would want the one in front of the cat. If I have to I'll put the dåmn thing in myself.
97 3.9 V6 Sport Club Cab. Black.
Quick D Intake.
Awaiting Installation: JBA headers, V8 R/T TB,
Autolite 3923s with Borg Warner Wires
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CW
Dodge Dakota
10/31/2001
20:17:51
|  RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
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Message:
You need a different dealership there Lesley.
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Lattimer
Dodge Dakota
11/01/2001
09:21:54
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
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Message:
Common problem with dealers: No computer code, truck not broken (say this in caveman type speech and it will sound just like the guy at the dealer counter). The O2 sensor isn't hard to replace, it may take some penetrating fluid and some muscle to get it loose.
On your emmissions, Here in New Jersey, they do a 15 MPH test on rollers. They don't inspect for anything but the existence of a Cat. They run the truck on the roller in drive and measure at the tailpipe. I have the flowmetrics 48MM, JBA headers, and Gibson Cat Back, and a cool air intake. According to the sheet they gave me at this test, and comparing it with my last test, the emissions numbers were all very close. Around here, they give you a sheet showing what the maximum # is and what your vehicle did. All of the numbers were almost exactly the same from stock in December last year to alll my mods in June of this year. By the way, I moved from PA to NJ in June, so the truck had to be inspected again. Anyways, there was no difference with the tests here (also, PA and Jersey do the test in a very similar manner). So if you test in Canada is anything like that, you will be ok.
Shawn
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Lesley
GenIII
11/01/2001
09:41:20
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
IP: Logged
Message:
Thanks for that info. The dealership tried to talk me into something called a "super tune-up" that would clean the carbon out & ensure that I pass the emissions test. For $120. The sensor is $97, I'll do it myself.
97 3.9 V6 Sport Club Cab. Black.
Quick D Intake.
Awaiting Installation: JBA headers, V8 R/T TB,
Autolite 3923s with Borg Warner Wires
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Harvey
Dodge Dakota
11/01/2001
16:54:11
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
IP: Logged
Message:
Shawn,
I live in NJ too. I was thinking about installing a V8 TB but I was afraid of the NJ inspection and loss of low end torque (and lack of funds from the wife). I guess you had no problems with the visual. I'd like to get get the 48mm flometrics 48 but I got to scrap and save. Did you install the TB yourself? Was it easy? Great gains? I'm glad to hear someone passing NJ inspection. I have a Volant intake system and I was worried about the visual inspection since the Volant is not street legal. I did hear they do have a CARB cert which I have been trying to obtain. Thanks for any info regarding emmission testing.
'01 QC Sport, 3.9L v6, 5spd 2wd, Volant intake, gibson, MSD wires, accel super coil
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Lattimer
Dodge Dakota
11/01/2001
17:01:14
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
IP: Logged
Message:
I went through the state inspection station. They never even open the hood. The private facilites might be more thorough. I have the flowmetrics 48mm TB, and I think it was the single best mod I have made. Installation is very easy, just read and follow the supplied directions if you decide to get one. It took about 2 hours, including fabricating the S bolt and modifying the air-hat.
Changing my TB actually increase low end torque, so don't be afraid of it.
Shawn
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Lesley
GenIII
11/01/2001
19:04:59
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
IP: Logged
Message:
Learned something odd today... the 02 sensor is covered under the emissions warranty too. I'm taking the truck to a different dealership on Monday and they are going to run a diagnostic on it, if the 02 still doesn't read as bad, will a visual test prove it? There should be carbon plugging up the tip right? Maybe they will reimburse me the $97 I just spent on the new one if so.
97 3.9 V6 Sport Club Cab. Black.
Quick D Intake.
Awaiting Installation: JBA headers, V8 R/T TB,
Autolite 3923s with Borg Warner Wires
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swingman
Dodge Dakota
11/02/2001
14:29:58
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
IP: Logged
Message:
Harvey,
If money is an issue, why not get a stock V8 TB from a 5.2/5.9L? I paid just under 300.00CAD for a brand new TB from the dealership including the V8 cable and gasket. As for the inspection, Bernd is right, they will never know unless they measure the size of the bore.
I didn't feel a loss in low end TQ at all. It gives me the sensation that my truck doesn't have to work as hard (improved engine's breathing). More desireable to drive. Please keep in mind that I also made other changes to my set up:
1. Replaced Airaid w/ K&N FIPK
2. Removed TB spacer
3. Replaced stock V6 TB w/ V8 TB from a 00' 5.9L
4. Replaced stock cap/rotor w/ BW cap/rotor
5. MSD wires (no change)
6. Replaced NGK Iridium plugs w/ 3923's
7. Removed Jet Stage II
8. Jet 180 Tstat (no change)
9. Gibson cat back (no change)
Installation can be done by yourself. All you will need is a socket set and plyers. The first step that I suggest is disconnecting the cable from behind the gas pedal w/ plyers (end of cable is a square plastic piece that locks in place by tabs at opposite ends. That was the hardest part of the install.
As you disconnect the sensors/wires from the V6 TB, you can connect them to the V8 TB. From there just bolt it in.
If you have any other Q's, send me an e-mail. That goes for you too Lesley ;)
BTW, if you happen to be looking in the Photo Album, go to Album 9, 2nd row, last on right.......that's me!
00 QC 3.9L, Manual, 3.55 ASD, K&N Gen II FIPK, 5.9 TB, BW cap/rotor, MSD wires, 3923's, Jet Stage II & 180 Tstat, Gibson cat back.
Future mods: JBA headers, ASP crank pully and 3.92 LSD.
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Lesley
GenIII
11/02/2001
15:47:04
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
IP: Logged
Message:
Thanks Swingman. I bought my TB slightly used off a 5.9 R/T for ... $70 US, including gasket.
97 3.9 V6 Sport Club Cab. Black.
Quick D Intake.
Awaiting Installation: JBA headers, V8 R/T TB,
Autolite 3923s with Borg Warner Wires
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swingman
Dodge Dakota
11/02/2001
15:54:25
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
IP: Logged
Message:
Anytime Lesley,
Let me know how things go with the emissions test and the installation of the rest of your mods. BTW, great buy on the TB.
Hey Harvey,
I forgot to mention, the TB also added more lead to my foot! you'll love it w/ the 5 speed :)
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no mercy
Dodge Dakota
11/02/2001
23:02:06
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
IP: Logged
Message:
the "super tune" to clean out your engine of carbon is really a very big rip-off. All the dealer's mechanic is going to do, if he does it at all, is squirt a can of carborator/fuel intector cleaner down the throttle body while holding the throttle open. It is one of the biggest rip-offs in the dealers "money maker kit". you can do it yourself for around $5 and 5 minutes of your time.
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Harvey
Dodge Dakota
11/02/2001
23:25:19
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
IP: Logged
Message:
Swingman,
Thanks for the info. I have been collecting all the threads for reference. I really appreciate all the advice and experience. Alot of food for thought. I have been toying around the idea with either a 5.9L V8 TB or flometrics 48mm. I have been concerned about emission inspection in NJ. I have been trying to convince my wife. My toys have been getting expensive and she rather see the funds go towards my son. Maybe Christmas or my birthday. If I wait and save by Feb, I'll get the flometrics or stock TB depending on how much I save. Hopefully nothing big comes up. Thanks again. Sorry, I got long winded.
Harvey
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Lesley
GenIII
11/03/2001
06:15:28
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
IP: Logged
Message:
No Mercy: that's exactly what I suspected it was. What a bunch of snake oil salesmen huh?
97 3.9 V6 Sport Club Cab. Black.
Quick D Intake.
Awaiting Installation: JBA headers, V8 R/T TB,
Autolite 3923s with Borg Warner Wires
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manny zamora
Dodge Dakota
11/12/2001
01:56:15
|  RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
IP: Logged
Message:
For all you guys and gals in the east coast, I here that it worse there than it is here in calafornia. even worse for you jersey mopar owners.
I just had to smog my Dak back in june, and I can say that after all the mods I have done to it, it passed with flying colors. Remember what they cant see thay can't gig you for.
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bernd
*GenIII*
11/12/2001
02:06:41
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
IP: Logged
Message:
If you want to clean out the carbon from your combustion chamber...here's a FREE way to do it:
Use WATER. Just trickle a small amount down the engine while it's running at about 1500rpm. The water hits the combustion chamber, turns to steam, breaks down and removes the carbon, and "vaporizes it" on the way out.
It doesn't hurt the cat, and will not hurt the engine...just trickle the water. (All you need is a small "Dixie Cup" about 3.4 full of water. (Oldest trick in the book)
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
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Lesley
GenIII
11/12/2001
08:28:18
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
IP: Logged
Message:
Bernd, I'm assuming you mean trickle it into the throttle?
Did you read that thread that I posted from moparchat - there was a guy on there who pretty adamant that a V8 throttle on a V6 is not a good idea...
97 3.9 V6 Sport Club Cab. Black. Auto 3.55
Quick D Intake,
Autolite 3923s with Borg Warner Wires
Awaiting Installation: JBA headers, V8 R/T TB,
|
CW
GenIII
11/12/2001
14:39:28
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
IP: Logged
Message:
All it is, is a air valve the computer decides what happens after that. I would be very surprized to see if it made a bit of difference in emissions. When do you go for your test?
2001 4.7 5sp RC 3.91 sport plus
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bernd
*GenIII*
11/12/2001
15:13:53
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
IP: Logged
Message:
Lesley,
What I mean is trickle the water from the "Dixie Cup" down the throttle bores with the engine running at about 1500rpm. (Don't dump it...just trickle it down the bores.)
As for the person on Mopar Chat, I can't find the thread but it works VERY WELL. Has this person even tried it?
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
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alex
Dodge Dakota
11/12/2001
15:31:42
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
IP: Logged
Message:
I had a 1992 V-6 that I had modd'd pretty nicely. Electric radiator fan replaced clutch fan, roller-tip rockers, fatter pushrods, DynoMax exhaust, 3" cat, K&N drop-in, Mopar Computer, V-8 TB mated to a port-matched intake manifold, synthetic fluids w/ Pro-Long.....
Passed emissions twice with all this in place (here in Atlanta) and it actually burned CLEANER than it had from the factory.
For what it's worth.......
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Lesley
GenIII
11/12/2001
18:06:08
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
IP: Logged
Message:
LOL, yup, I got the trickle part... not interested in drowning my dak.
Here is the thread on TBs. I think the guy is an engineer.
http://www.moparchat.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39972
I'm just waiting for delivery of the cable, the mail is VERY screwy these days, it's been over a month, and yet the TB itself was hardly a week.
97 3.9 V6 Sport Club Cab. Black. Auto 3.55
Quick D Intake,
Autolite 3923s with Borg Warner Wires
Awaiting Installation: JBA headers, V8 R/T TB,
|
bernd
*GenIII*
11/12/2001
18:38:25
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
IP: Logged
Message:
Ya should've asked me Lesley...i've got three cables ready to go.
I checked out the thread and responded as well. I didn't see anything where someone stated that the stock V8 TB wouldn't work.
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
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Lesley
GenIII
11/12/2001
22:32:27
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
IP: Logged
Message:
You're right, I really should have. This has been my first foray into ordering things across the border, I've discovered that even with the exchange and shipping it's still cheaper. So, I will be ordering a high-flow cat soon, it will definitely be from you.
I cut & pasted this from moparchat: (which you probably read, as I saw that you responded to the thread)
"I'd be REAL careful on a normally aspirated V-6 throttle body wise. You want to use a 48mm unit to maintain airspeed and low end torque! Don't think BIGGER IS BETTER or "MORE's LAW!" So be careful about putting V-8 sized TBs on V-6's etc. "
97 3.9 V6 Sport Club Cab. Black. Auto 3.55
Quick D Intake,
Autolite 3923s with Borg Warner Wires
Awaiting Installation: JBA headers, V8 R/T TB,
|
bernd
*GenIII*
11/13/2001
00:10:29
| RE: V8 TB & Emission Testing
IP: Logged
Message:
Apparently, that person didn't do his homework. The V6's range in TB sizes from 42mm - 46mm. The 2mm larger than the largest V6 TB will NOT affect low-end TQ one bit. A mismatched exhaust system will do more to low-end TQ loss than 48mm TB.
Just for those interested, i've put the original "TBTEST" PDF file on the Flometrics throttle body page (Speedtweaks website). Granted, this was done on a Supercharged V6...but you can see that bigger is sometimes better (just not too much bigger though).
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
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