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23:49:02 - 12/19/2024
V6 Dakotas
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sport02
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2007
01:36:45
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 Subject: front end problems
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2002 3.9 rc 5spd
I'm not sure was else to do anymore! I have steering problems and it's been checked 3 times now and no one has found anything! The steering is tight but for the most part drives straight on the highway. It pulls left or right when braking hard (i have new calipers and brakes on already), the front wheels bite hard when turning into parking spaces and the wheels actually skid across the asphalt. The truck wants to steer into the the side of any bumps i hit (bumpsteering? and i have new shocks all the way around) and this includes when i'm on the highway doing 65, pretty scaring feeling! And when it rains i can pretty much figure on being late to wherever i'm going because i've got to drop back to about 30mph because the front end feels like it completely leaves and i've got no control.
Pep boys says i have a caster issue but failed to provide me with any spec readings on both times i had it in there. they gave me my money back and said they can't fix it and consult the dealer. I take it to the dealer and they find nothing. they say tracking is fine and so is all the other front end parts. I did notice that on the passenger side i can get my whole fist between the tire and the flare on the fender but the drivers side i can not. It's about 1/2 inch off. I used the same exact reference point. I know this is not a surefire way to judge caster since body parts and the cab may not be sitting perfectly squared on the frame from factory. it's got me wondering though!
just last weekend i decided to check my bushings. I jacked the truck up, took front wheels off but supported the weight of the truck by both A-arms like you were checking ball joints. the ball joints didn't move but i thought the whole assembly moved rather easily once i used a pry bar. I'm really starting to think i may need new bushings after 75,000 miles.
i try to do everything myself and so far have been successful but replacing upper and lower bushings seem like a huge job! Getting everything back to the old markings and actually being able to drive it somewhere to get aligned worries me. Plus the fact of trying to loosen those rusted bolts going into the bushings, wow!! Most defineately will need a torch to heat them but i don't have one. Any idea of what this would cost?
I'm done with pep boys (they didn't seem honest to me) I just don't understand why they didnt want to fix it other than the fact it was too involved and they are more apt to do the quick in and out jobs. I'm done with the dealer too, $125 later and nothing to be found when clearly you can feel it when you drive. The tech drove it with me in the passenger seat and said he felt nothing unusual, he's full of sh$t! I drive this truck everyday and i'm not crazy, i know something is wrong here!
my dad works for a GMC dealer and they take all their stuff to a very reputable frame shop that does all this stuff. i'm going to take it there i think and get some REAL answers. But in the meantime would love to hear from anyone with any suggestions on this matter. This site has helped me fix everything with my truck so far and it's the first thing i come to when i've got problems. thanks everyone!
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2007
09:31:24
| RE: front end problems
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usually when control arm bushing get worn out, i've found that you will hear a clunking/ knocking when stopping or taking off form a stop.
did you by this truck new? it could have been wrecked before and the repairs weren't done properly.
definitely take it to another, hopefully reputable shop that knows what they're doing.
good luck.
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sport02
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2007
23:27:07
| RE: front end problems
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yes i bought it new. it has been in an accident back in 2005 but wasn't anything major and the dealer did a front end alignment anyways just in case. I didn't have this trouble either afterwards so i doubt it's from that
i do have some clunking but can't tell if it's in the steering column or generating from the control arms coming up the steering. I'm not sure if its that recall clunking everyone was having in the steering wheel or if it is from the bushings. i get the noise and feel it pretty good even when not turning the steering wheel and just driving over bumps going straight. It's quite annoying! I have the instructions for the recall but never got around to doing it. I'll have to try and get that done so i can see if i still have the clunking. tie rod ends and ball joints are all good according to dealer. New shocks as well like i said.
the other baffling thing that happens sometimes is sometimes it almost feels like something shifting sometimes while i'm driving it and then it will act like this. then sometimes depending on how sharply i turn it almost seems to "reset" whatever it is then it will drive ok for awhile.
I'm thinking maybe it was in this "reset" state when i had the dealer drive it. don't even know if my theory holds water, i'm just saying what it feels like to me. when i take it to the fram shop i'll get them to check the bushings as well. I have 100% faith in this shop but i've got to drive like an hour to get there. I don't care though, i just want it fixed!
from all that i've stated so far what are the chances of the power steering pump or rack being the culprit? Niether one make any noises or leaking.
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dakota49
Dodge Dakota
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8/31/2007
22:16:36
| RE: front end problems
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Sport02, when checking for worn ball joints you should support the truck on the frame, not the A frame. that way you will be able to see if there is any movement of anything, including the ball joints. If I were you I would try checking everything before changing parts. The thing I'm wondering about is, if there is something wrong why no one is finding it. I'm not real sure I understand just what is wrong, but have you checked the rear end to see if it is square with the truck? I know that sounds dumb, but if the rear is trying to go sideways it can create problems. But from what you have said it would seem like the problem is in the front. Try supproting the front end on the frame rails that way the suppension will have all stress off it then you find what is loose, or bent. It does sound scary to drive something in a condition like you have described.
Do you have a rack & pinion, or the old style steering? It could be in the rack, but still I would want to check it first. While you have it on the jack stands, try to see if there is any play, or tightness in the rack, or other steering parts at different positions through out the turning from lock to lock. (from far left to far right)
Good Luck
Dakota49
88 3.9 4X4 5 speed
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sport02
Dodge Dakota
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8/31/2007
23:25:07
| RE: front end problems
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i thought you were supposed to put weight on the control arms to relieve the coil spring tension when checking ball joints. anyways the dealer checked the tracking, isn't that when the check the "squareness" of all wheels? Problem is that pep boys i'm sure didn't test drive it afterwards and the dealer only took it on straight highway with hardly any bumps or conditions to duplicate my problems.
I have rack and pinion steering. set up an appointment today for next week at the frame shop. from all i explained to the guy he seems to think it's the rack and pinion but he's going to check and also recheck specs on the alignment.
Here is everything it does:
bump steering, pull left or right when braking, feeling of something shifting position in front end when turning sharply and the tires jump on the asphalt, some slight feeling of resistance on truck like something holding it back, very tight in steering and unforgiving(you turn the wheel a little and it goes alot), wheels feel like they are out of balance but they're not (shimmy i guess), very scary horrible control in the rain almost like it can't decide what direction it wants to go. funny thing is i can't remember or recall hitting anykind of pot hole or anything like that to give me problems. i can't even tell you when it started i just know it's there!
i have new brakes,rotors, calipers, shocks, full tune up, 5/32 tire tread and air pressure fine. I bled the power steering line and it seemed ok for a day or two but right back to the same thing again. No noise from power steering pump or leaking. Pep boys had it on their rack twice and swears no alignment problems. that may be true when the truck is sitting still!! but you start driving and speeding up it changes, that's what no one is getting.
it's got to be either bushings or rack and pinion, i'm convinced now. dealer says ball joints and tie rods are fine. if i replace the rack i'm going to put new tie rod ends on because i'm sure i'll ruin the seals on the old ones getting them off. We'll see what the frame shop has to say. they also have equipment for measure underbody specs as well so they'll know if something is bent or not.
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dakota49
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/01/2007
16:29:30
| RE: front end problems
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Message:
Sport02, I'm thinking from what you just said, you bled the power steering and it was fine for a day or 2, I'm thinking its the rack that's bad.
I think maybe you may be just a little confused about how to check for bad ball joints. According to my Haynes manual it says to raise the truck, and use a jack under the lower control arm, (A frame) and raise it slightly. So you wouldn't have the full weight of the truck on the joints, some not all. So I was wrong.
They should be able to remove the tie rods without hurting them and be able to reuse them, if they have the correct tools.
Anyway, Good Luck, I sure hope someone can get this thing fixed for you.
Dakota49
88 3.9 4X4 5 speed
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sport02
Dodge Dakota
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9/01/2007
21:47:42
| RE: front end problems
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Message:
yeah man, i hope so too. It really bugs me that no one has found the problem. the guys im taking it too i know will find it, should have taken it to them first time around and just drove the hour it takes to get there.
if it's the rack i'm doing it myself. i have a fork-type tie rod end remover but it's not the scissors type that's why i'm afraid i'll rip them, they are still factory.
i've looked at the remanufactured racks from advance auto parts. no way can i afford an OEM rack and pinion.
oh, i wanted to mention. today i was at a distance and looking at my truck and noticed the front wheels slanting in a little. Now, i know they're supposed to do that a little but should you be able to visibly see it when the front end isn't even jacked up?
man i'll be glad when this is all over. it's been a huge headache!
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dakota49
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/03/2007
10:41:46
| RE: front end problems
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Message:
Sport02, if the wheels are turned they will slant a little, but if they are straight they should be straight up and down not slanting either way, but if someone had it on a alinement machine, the machine should had shown that there was a problem. The one thing I have learned though, is a lot of shops have equipment they don't know how to use, so that could be what's been happening to you. Man that makes me mad when people charge me to do something wrong.
Sport, I wish you luck this time around, and maybe this time it will get fixed right. I sure hope so.Let us know if this gets it fixed.
Good Luck,
Dakota49
88 3.9 4X4 5 speed
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sport02
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/07/2007
02:28:06
| RE: front end problems
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Message:
well, here's the verdict! Had it at the frame shop and the mechanic drove it and felt it immediately! Though pep boys drove it twice and the dealer drove it as well and said they felt nothing abnormal. He did a front end alignment and completely corrected the problem with the steering. He said both the camber and tow on the drivers side was off a half inch each! I myself would have never questioned whether or not pep boys did an actual alignment because most people think that these places do what they say they are going to do so i never thought for once it was actually the front end alignment. The Mech. at the frame shop said pep boys lied and didn't align anything. No bolts or threads were even scratched! I can't believe after taking it to them twice that both times they didn't even align it but yet told me the first time it was aligned and ready for pickup. Clearly it is obvious now why they never gave me specs both times i asked for them because they never did an F'ing alignment. The guy said their machine either is broken, sucks, or the person doing alignments dont know crap!!
what pisses me off even more is that the dealer told me they checked the tracking and it was fine! I would think that the tow being off a half inch would have shown but i don't know much about this area so i'm not sure. Pep boys gave me my money back but i can forget about getting the money back from the dealer!
As for the tightness is the steering, yes it is the rack but it's in the early stages and the mechanic told me its one of those things you just can't tell when it's going to go full blown. he didn't feel it was bad enough to run out and replace right this second. He said probly by next year i'll need a new one. I wanted to ask him but i forgot, if driving for a long time with the tow out like it was could have messed up the rack or if the rack itself messed up the alignment.
I did tell him about the caliper locking up awhile back and me driving it and he didn't seem too alarmed by it. It feels awesome to finally have control of my truck again, aside from the slightly tight steering from dead center but i'll wait till the rack goes completely. I've had nothing but auto repairs between me and my wife in the last 4 months. the credit cards are maxxed! I've got to get my wife's car to this guy as well because pep boys aligned her car after i did the struts in June and it never really quite felt right plus now she's getting some binding in her steering as well. I put crappy A$$ monroe matic struts on so that's probly the problem right there. I'm going to put some KYB gr-2 on hers like i've got on my truck. VERY nice shocks for 2wd, nice ride and affordable, much better built than monroe or gabriel.
anyways note to self: Never go to pep boys again, find another dodge dealer when worse comes to worse, when something "Feels" like it's not right IT PROBABLY ISN'T!! Trust your gut feeling and find someone reputable. I only paid $60 to have the whole front end straightened out and between him aligning it and test driving it he had like 2 hours wrapped up in it and still only charged $60. i was happier than i pig in mud!
thanks dakota49 for all the suggestions and help and thanks everyone else for their help to. I think we can finally let this one rest! thanks all!
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boomer
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/11/2007
08:33:02
|  RE: front end problems
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sport, i'm glad you got your problems sorted out. I have a problem of my own I havnt figured out yet. a while ago I replaced all balljoints, endlinks, swaybar bushings, tie-rods, and shocks. naturally I went and got an alignment. they said that they couldn't get the caster in spec but it shouldnt matter much. anyway it was fine, till a couple days later when I was backing into a parking spot at work. when I turned and backed I heard a pop and didn't worry bout it much till I drove it later. When driving home it pulled to the right, which it wasn't doing before I parked so I've been trying to find out what it is. I took it back to the shop where they did they alignment and they said it looked fine. one kid actually said one of my ball joints was bad, but I just replaced them so I doubt that was it. any ideas?? thanks guys
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dakota49
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/13/2007
20:42:47
| RE: front end problems
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Message:
Hey Sport02, thanks for letting us know what was wrong, it gets me mad when some one who is supposed to be a professional puts the screws to someone like Pep Boys did you. You did get your money back though so that's very good.
I don't have a Pep Boys around here so I don't have to worry about that, but then I do most of my own work anyway, because of people like Pepboys. If I do have to have some one else work on my stuff, I know a few great places to take it to.
Sport02, I am glad for you to finally get it fixed.
Good Luck
Dakota49
88 3.9 4X4 5speed
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sport02
Dodge Dakota
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9/16/2007
22:03:48
| RE: front end problems
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Message:
yeah as for the alignment it seems to be back to normal but i still have the tight steering. i'm guessing by the next spring i'll need a new rack and pinion.
boomer, my truck was doing and still does sometimes the exact same thing yours is doing when you back up. mine don't pop but i can feel something shift and jerk. i just assumed the whole time it was the rack. i suppose it is also possible the bushings could be worn too and getting some movement there.
Now just this weekend i'm starting to get some whining from the power steering pump. when sitting still in the truck i give a little gas and turn left and right and it sounds like a bunch of gears whining. i let off the gas and the whining goes away. it would be great to know that it was just my power steering pump causing the tightness in steering by not supplying enough pressure to the rack.
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