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Arnold
Dodge Dakota
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3/15/2007
13:38:06
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 Subject: Why does it stall on a cold start?
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Message:
The problem began yesterday morning when I drove to work. I started my truck, then right away it lost rpm's as if it was going to stall, then rebounded and worked fine. As a note, my truck always started like new, and something like this was strange enough. So on my drive back home, I start it, it starts, then stalls right away. Tried it again - same thing. Then I started and gave it gas - it kept idling, but I had to give it some gas for a couple minutes, because when I was letting my foot off the accelerator, the rpm's would drop too low and stall if I wouldn't give it gas in time. The drive home was fine as usual, no problems.
Now, today morning on the way to work, I start it up and it dies. I give it some gas and it keeps going, but dies if I let my foot off gas. This time it was worse and I had to give it gas for about 15 minutes until it warmed up completely and was holding the idle normally, without stalling. The drive to work was perfect, no problems.
So I figure it happens only on the initial startup, when the truck is cold. Temps here are around 2-12 Celcius.
I will try to give it some fuel injector cleaner this weekend, but until then, any thoughts on the cause of this problem?
The truck is a 1997 V6, 3.9L, auto, 2wd, ext. cab, 100k miles.
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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3/15/2007
14:23:53
| RE: Why does it stall on a cold start?
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what kind of shape is your battery in? have it load tested, it's a free test most places. a weak batt will cause a funky/ no idle condition until the alternator charges the battery up.
or it could be time to clean the TB and IAC.
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Matt
Dodge Dakota
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3/15/2007
19:45:49
| RE: Why does it stall on a cold start?
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The exact same thing is happening to my 3.9 1997 Dakota. It has gotten to the point where it stalls when the engine is cold and warm. The only way to keep it running is to apply the gas and brake, shift into drive and move the truck a few feet, then all is fine....RPM is back to normal and no more stalling. Turn it off, then right back on and the same stalling issue again.
Took it in to a local shop and it threw a PO123 code. When we looked it up, there was no 123 code, but code 23 is throttle body air temp sensor.
I have not replaced this sensor yet, but might just to see what happens.
Any other thoughts out there?
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Matt
Dodge Dakota
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3/15/2007
20:17:45
| RE: Why does it stall on a cold start?
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I did a little research online, and found code PO123 to be TPS-trottle position sensor high voltage. Furthermore, a faulty TPS will not throw a check engine light.
I will check out the battery, then if no luck, try replacing the TPS.
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Arnold
Dodge Dakota
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3/15/2007
21:51:36
| RE: Why does it stall on a cold start?
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Hm, today on the drive back home, all was 98% fine. It started without stalling, only dropped an rpm or two, and that's it. I bought a Penzoil "Fuel System Cleaner", and will use it this weekend. Will see what it does. Then we'll check out the battery if it fails.
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Arnold
Dodge Dakota
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3/15/2007
21:58:04
| RE: Why does it stall on a cold start?
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Matt, I don't remember exactly now, but years back on my old Civic, I had some problems with it stalling. We found it was the throttle cable, that needed to be replaced. Some time later, it started to stall again, and then it was the pulley that needed replacement. Just throwing some more ideas.
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GB2000
GenIII
3/16/2007
02:02:52
| RE: Why does it stall on a cold start?
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I'd have to second Daddio on it being the battery.
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Arnold
Dodge Dakota
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3/16/2007
02:13:54
| RE: Why does it stall on a cold start?
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Message:
Maybe, but it cranks like new. A bad battery would make it crank like a grandma.
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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3/16/2007
07:45:47
| RE: Why does it stall on a cold start?
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Message:
it could be a bad temp sensor but, i was throwing out the cheapest/ easiest thing to check first. a battery can seem to crank OK but still be low enough on voltage after starting the truck to make it low/no idle.
if you put something in to clean the fuel system try Seafoam. works really well. keep us posted.
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Arnold
Dodge Dakota
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3/16/2007
14:49:02
| RE: Why does it stall on a cold start?
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This morning it started as nothing is wrong, not even a single drop. I don't know, maybe the computer adjusted the program to remedy the problem.
I haven't seen Seafoam on the shelves, so it wasn't an option for me.
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J and J Auto
GenII
3/17/2007
01:44:26
| RE: Why does it stall on a cold start?
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Message:
just check the 5 volt supply
TPS the wire all the way to the right
center sensor volts .3 to .7
left wire sensor ground
I would clean the IAC idle air control it may be
hanging up back of throttle body carb cleaner
If you have acces to a scanner check the steps
with the key on not running should be pulled
back off seat when started steps will drop
down in number to close the valve some
Larry
J&J Auto
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Arnold
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2007
21:40:49
| RE: Why does it stall on a cold start?
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Message:
Friday after work I wasted 90 minutes giving it gas with no progress. It just kept dying the moment I took gas off. So then I decided to drive with braking and giving it gas at the same time. It took about 30-60 secs for the problem to go away! From there all worked properly.
On the weekend I still experienced the same problem, but now I don't wait until it stops dying, I just drive off and in about 30 secs it goes away. Interesting pattern.
Yesterday morning when I started it up, it was dying again, but this time my fuel gauge was going on and off repeatedly, until I drove away. So what does it tell? Something fuel related... Maybe the fuel pump?
Where is the TPS and IAC, so I can check it out too?
I also changed the spark plugs and it did nothing.
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J and J Auto
GenII
3/20/2007
00:54:12
| RE: Why does it stall on a cold start?
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Message:
The TPS throttle position sensor is located on the
drivers side of tb
center wire and ground .3 to .7 volts key on
engine off, open and close throttle and it should
always return to same low volts
looking over fender
left wire ground
center sensor signal
right 5 volt supply
IAC idle air control back of tb remove clean with
carb cleaner also hole it comes out of put a
little oil on oring and reinstal do not push pull
or twist on plunger
It does not sound like a fuel prob if the presure
was low steping on the gas would not change speed
I would find someone with a scanner like auto zone
and also check the IAT incoming air temp sensor
and engine temp sensor you have a very strange
one here
A bad or lazy sensor will not always trip a code
but you can see how its operating with a scanner
check all your connections and grounds this is the
first thing to do on the computer vehicles
Larry
J&J Auto
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Arnold
Dodge Dakota
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3/20/2007
01:13:42
| RE: Why does it stall on a cold start?
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Message:
Alright, thanks. I'll try to look at TPS tomorrow. Will need to buy some carburator cleaner before I touch the IAC. And I did go to a shop to try and scan for a code, but they wanted $89...so I left.
And any idea why the fuel level gauge all of a sudden started going on and off like that?
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Kowalski
GenIII
3/20/2007
06:54:26
| RE: Why does it stall on a cold start?
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Message:
Could be low voltage, like daddio already said. A bad battery doesn't always "make it crank like grandma" as you claimed. Loss of idle memory is often the first symptom; that's how it was in my truck.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Arnold
Dodge Dakota
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3/20/2007
17:46:08
| RE: Why does it stall on a cold start?
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Message:
I checked the TPS. It appears to be fine. Center wire is 0.62 with throttle closed. Then the voltage gradually changes as I open/close the throttle. No spikes/dips. At wide open it is 3.8 volts. The right wire is 5.1 volts. This is with ignition on, engine off.
I also checked the IAC. To me it appeared very dirty. I wiped off the dirt and put it back in. I'd have to buy a cleaner to clean it better next time.
Both sensors when were disconnected, threw a check engine light.
I noticed that my negative battery post is oxidized a little. It was never there before I first saw it last week. So I cleaned the hell out of it and the negative clamp.
After all was done, I started it up and it worked very well. It's too soon to judge right now, so I'll have to wait a few days and see if anything have changed.
About the battery... I did go to Autozone this past weekend to check it out, but they didn't want to do it, because they said a battery wouldn't cause stalling if you have to give gas to keep it running.
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Kowalski
GenIII
3/20/2007
18:39:43
| RE: Why does it stall on a cold start?
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Message:
If you're lucky, the culprit might be the poor conection you cleaned up. Autozone is wrong if they told you that. The PCM is very sensitive to low voltage when it comes to stuff like idle memory; showing up before cranking ever slowed for many of us. Once you run the vehicle a marginal battery charges back up for a bit, but eventually drains a bit. That's why we commonly see this on cold starts, a malfunction of TPS or IAC would be less likely to be linked to cold starting.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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3/21/2007
08:16:02
| RE: Why does it stall on a cold start?
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Message:
Kowalski is dead on. the autozone goober doesn't know what he is talking about. this winter my truck did the rough idle/ stall thing a couple of times. i knew it was my battery for 2 reasons.
1) the battery is 7 yrs old.
2) on a cold start my voltage gage read lower than 8 volts for a few seconds after first cranking the truck and once voltage came back up the idle smoothed out.
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Arnold
Dodge Dakota
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3/21/2007
12:07:48
| RE: Why does it stall on a cold start?
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Message:
If your battery was lower than 8 volts, then it wouldn't start at all. Something around 11 volts is already enough for it not to start. My battery gauge also shows a low voltage on initial start, but that's because the gauge is off. I measured with a DMM the voltage just before first starting the truck yesterday, and it read 11.9 volts.
Anyways, whatever I did yesterday, did not help. The start this morning was pretty bad. Also, when it's really bad, then it won't even start if I don't give gas. I'll try to clean the IAC again today.
Next I'm thinking to buy a new battery from Wal-Mart and return it in case it doesn't solve the problem. Anyone knows if they accept used batteries?
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Jeremy
Dodge Dakota
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3/21/2007
12:41:46
| RE: Why does it stall on a cold start?
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Message:
I have the same problem with my Dakota. Same year and engine but I have over 135k. I bought it 3 years ago and the guy told me about the problem. He had taken it to a dealer and they told him it was the exhaust manifold gasket and were gonna charge 700 bucks to fix it. This was while I was in the process of buying it so he was gonna stick me with the bill so I told him to forget it. Mine tends to do off and on all year long though mostly in winter.
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Arnold
Dodge Dakota
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3/21/2007
13:39:30
| RE: Why does it stall on a cold start?
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Does yours also "cures" the problem after you drive it for a minute or so?
And I'm thinking why mine sometimes won't start at all without giving it gas? How would an exhaust manifold leak cause this?
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