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DeMarco
Dodge Dakota
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2/28/2007
21:01:05
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 Subject: Bosch? Larry?
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Message:
Hey everyone,
I was wondering if this makes sense or if my O2 sensors have to be bad. In my college town that is basically on a huge hill, i have been averaging around 8.5 mpg. My cat went bad about 2 months ago, and i had it replaced without checkin 02 sensors. I then switched out my plugs for Bosch Platinums, which i hear drop MPG in magnum engines. I had a 70 lb sand bag in the back so i didnt need 4x4 when it was barely snowing or anything. 8.5 still seems really low despite all that, and winter gas. I used to get just under 17 all highway on average, and 13 in the city last year. Am i right in assuming its really low? Or is it about right all things considered?
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go with e3
Dodge Dakota
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2/28/2007
21:51:29
| RE: Bosch? Larry?
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Message:
go with e3 plugs
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J and J Auto
GenII
 
3/01/2007
02:11:51
| RE: Bosch? Larry?
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Message:
If its in question replace it
get rid of the bosch plugs
go right to NGK.com they will list o2 and Vpower
plugs
FR5 is 1 range colder and most trucks react very
well to this
your plugs should be a light tan sandy color
not blackish grey or white if not tan you
have problems
Larry
J&J Auto
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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3/01/2007
08:14:14
| RE: Bosch? Larry?
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Message:
What year is your truck? If pre-1996 or if 2005 and later, it has an EGR valve, and that may have been damaged by the catcon, and could affect your mileage. Doesn't always set a code. My brother found the EGR melted on his truck.
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DeMarco
Dodge Dakota
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3/01/2007
10:29:44
| RE: Bosch? Larry?
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Message:
Its a 99 4x4 5sp v6, got a susp. lift on it and the bars up for about 4 or 5 inches of lift so the wind definitely effects my mileage. I still think 8.5 is low no matter what the conditions are. Once the 30 inches of snow we have gotten in the last week melts ill swap out the plugs to some champions i think. I am worried that this new cat is going to go bad if my O2 sensor is bad though...it hasnt tripped a code and i really dont want to spend a lot of money if i dont need to on it.
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PETE
Dodge Dakota
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3/01/2007
22:01:36
|  RE: Bosch? Larry?
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Message:
My mileage dip off recently so i turn to my tune up which i did and realize about 65,000 miles so i included changed my pre cat O2's and used DENSO brand 02 sensors and still have a mileage suffering a bit, ihave no codes and truck runs great before and after tuneup doing this every 20,000 up to now and and changed the 02's for the mileage and get around 11-13 and used to get 17-18 mostly city driving , and run good quality gas and a treatment of lucas FI cleaner in the tank just wondering if my injectors need to be professionally clean with high pressure like i used to do as mechanic when i was in the feild now i just do it on the side for cash or to help someone in a slump seems everyone has this mileage issue , i know before i bought my current truck which is 02' Club cab and old besty before i traded in was a 91' sport and got mileage 17-18 and put over 160,000 miles on her and it was T.B. injected just got to realize these mid size trucks as they classify them as ?? and they weigh 3,000 lbs + like a mid size car with a cast iron v-6 engine not going to get great mileage no matter what we would like it to and iam not trying to be a smartass justhow i see it .
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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3/01/2007
23:11:48
| RE: Bosch? Larry?
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Message:
Also have to take into consideration your now running winter mix gas and driving in colder conditions. You really are down to low but you also need to cosider this.
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PETE
Dodge Dakota
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3/02/2007
10:21:14
| RE: Bosch? Larry?
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Message:
Definelty right OBIO3 Weather changes espicially when colder our trucks are more sensitive to adjust and run more richer during the colder months of the year it goes to show are computers on our truck are doing a good job with ever changing weather conditions but also should let us know when there is a fault with one of our sensors if they should fall and again sometimes not the case you have to do and look at every sensor functions and the basics go along ways ..
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DC02
Dodge Dakota
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3/02/2007
11:20:27
| RE: Bosch? Larry?
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Message:
Larry,
What's your opinion on those heat shields around the plug wires? Are they serving a real purpose or can they just be removed for easier access?
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anonomous
Dodge Dakota
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3/02/2007
15:28:16
| RE: Bosch? Larry?
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Message:
PETE, Please use commas and periods. We're spending five minutes trying to figure out what you are trying to say.
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PETE
Dodge Dakota
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3/03/2007
13:32:56
| RE: Bosch? Larry?
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Message:
THERE ARE THERE IN SOME OF MY BABBLE TALK SORRY..
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PETE
Dodge Dakota
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3/03/2007
13:38:58
| RE: Bosch? Larry?
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Message:
They are there not from last post. Just find so much to on thought and babbling on and get carried away with any grammer check did'nt think were in english class. LOL.....
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J and J Auto
GenII
3/06/2007
00:37:44
| RE: Bosch? Larry?
IP: Logged
Message:
read your plugs
I just got 22mpg in 0 to 30 degree weather with
my 95 4x4 with my 5 min warm ups than I stay
30mph or less for 5 miles to let the drivetrain
warm up
I just can not beleave the gas mileage people are
getting on this board not just my truck but all
my customers trucks with the V6 are getting 20
or better there are a few in the 17 18mpg but that
is the way they drive
I have seen some hit 27 28mpg on the highway my
personal best was 25.8
The V6 if tuned properly is a very economical
motor
draging brakes
bad o2's
low fuel pressure
these are the big killers
IAT
engine temp sensors being off more than 15 will
hit mileage but only 1 to 3mpg
The Air/Fuel ratio must be correct if you want
good mileage and power
This can easily be checked by reading the plugs
they must be a light tan color or something is
wrong and you will never run good and get good
mileage
do a search on the net and look at some pics of
plugs to see what they should look like
anyone can do this
a good mechanic will not just scan for codes but
watch all the sensors from a cold start to full
operating temp they must fungtion right
A lazy map will also kill mileage the best way
to check this is to use an old type vac guage
on the test port on the intake and compare this
to the scanner readings must be within 2psi or
its crap
These are things most do not do they scan find a
code replace a part or find no codes and say all
is ok never taking the time to properly diagnose
running probs poor perf and gas mileage
the modern mechanics are not taught these things
they just know how to read a scanner I could train
my dog to do that and bark if theres a code LOL
This is a big problem these days the scanners
and computers can not always tell you what is
wrong one needs to look farther than this
My 95 4x4 has a 92 motor with all the mods port
matched intake and just a head port clean no
actual material removed all the bolt on's and
mods except the crank sensor because I am running
the mopar V6 performance computer 120,000 miles
oil changed every 6,000 miles royal purple all
other fluids Amsoil never burns a drop of oil
in the warm weather 22 24 is normal mpg
What you need is a better mechanic or learn to
do it yourself
with a scanner and a digital voltmeter you can
test and diagnos every part of your own truck
an investment of $250 and just a little study
anyone can do it themselfs and do it right
its not that hard to watch sensor operation
and check voltages
Larry
J&J Auto
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PETE
Dodge Dakota
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3/06/2007
10:37:17
| RE: Bosch? Larry?
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Message:
Yea Larry, i agree with you a good voltmeter and and vacuum gauge along with good scanner can take you along way if you know what your troubleshooting, thats how i was trainned when i worked in the field as a mechanic and still do. I have so many people come see me after they been wherever they get there vehicle look at and throw me a code and they say " they say i have this code and the sensor is bad and $$$ add up to empty wallet and disappointed when the problem is'nt corrected or masked another problem solved. I Like that Fuel Injection troubleshooting it allows me to check everything that leads to the problem . Old days like when we had Mixture controlled solenoids on mechanical MAP sensors and one wire 02 sensors those were fun and before that just your basic carburetor plugs,cap and rotor and if your really lucky points and condenser LOL...
These mechanic trained now days need to do a little more work instead of relying on a stupid scanner Agree Larry ??
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DeMarco
Dodge Dakota
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3/06/2007
14:13:24
| RE: Bosch? Larry?
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Message:
Thanks a lot guys, I appreciate the feedback. I hit just over 10 mpg the other day, and i used 4x4 for a good amount of time, and a lot of it was short trips on these hills. I just dont understand how people can get 20+ mpg. I am happy if i get close to 17 when everything is running correctly. My 31's with a suspension lift and the torsion bars cranked probably takes off a couple mpg. Also, i have a grill guard and other things that arent helping my aerodynamics. I am going to try to switch my plugs this week while at home if its warm enough, might not get a chance though since my transfer case is leaking...hope i can afford to get it fixed! Just out of curiousity, anyone have a ballpark for getting a seal replaced? just like to have an idea just in case it ends up being that
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J and J Auto
GenII
3/07/2007
02:56:52
| RE: Bosch? Larry?
IP: Logged
Message:
replace the seal yourelf
rear you can just pop out the front you need to
remove the yoke and than carfuly pop the old seal
out
the new one can be taped in with a small hammer
just tap all the way around evenly have a good
light to be sure its going in even these seals
a seal instaler is not nessasary a socket or a
straight cut piece of pipe will also work just
take it slow and even
be sure you put some oil or trans fluid or grease
on the sealing part before instalation
a shop around $50 plus part
here again not all shops have the seal drivers
most just tap them in
I have seal drivers for every seal if not I have
a lath and can make anything I want on these seals
or like the axle seals taping them in works fine
PETE I also get a lot of people who have been to
dealers than come in show me the list of parts
replaced but they still run like crap I have
even seen receipts for parts that were never
replaced that really gets me whem shops do that
to people
most times just looking into the running isues
a little farther the problems are solved very
easy cheap and right most just will not take the
time to make them run right its sad
labor rates these days $75 or more per hour
scan a truck replace the part 20min but they
charge an hour take it for a ride say its fine and
out the door it goes, that the customer complains
its not fixed and are fed a line of bs thats the
way they run BULL $HIT is what that is
Larry
J&J Auto
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PETE
Dodge Dakota
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3/07/2007
15:29:05
| RE: Bosch? Larry?
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Message:
Larry thats what i call the backyard trained mechanic even if they have a piece of paper for there training or might want to call them a shadetree mechanic LOL... I dont like knocking new kids on the block agree with wht you said in last part of your sentence more mechanics out for a dollar in there pocket and empty your wallet , I worked for one of those a$sholes and glad i quit before he put i bad name on my reputation i was honest with my customers, never did i put something on vehicle that was'nt the problem or to masked the problem for short while and return with the same complaint or something new arise to add to the problem ?? I still follow my basics and dig into it before i send it down the road and very few if any comebacks just referal to another potential customer that gave me good name and the good work i did. And i don't want to be a shining star just HONEST!!! goes along ways with me.
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J and J Auto
GenII
3/09/2007
05:36:07
| RE: Bosch? Larry?
IP: Logged
Message:
PETE
I know what you are saying the thing that really
makes me laugh is that a lot of these shops than
complain that there is not enough work for them
LOL
never thinking that word gets around especialy
in the small towns around my area
we have a 1 year waiting list on restoring the
old muscle cars right now we have so much work
in that aspect of the business we have to turn it
away but a lot of people know our reputation for
quility work and are willing to wait
word does get around I have had the local dodge
dealers telling there mechanics to call me when
they have things they can not figure out, I am
glad to help its just the way I am they are no
compitition to us they have even sent new vehicles
to us for warrante work lots of new vehicles
with running isues, there techs come to there
shop 3 days every month and cant figure some of
these running issues out
One day they called me and sent there tech over
to the shop with a truck that would not idle
LOL the vac line that ran to the heater pots
was broke LOL and they could not find this
a factory trained tech that is sad
Larry
J&J Auto
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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3/09/2007
09:45:37
| RE: Bosch? Larry?
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Message:
At 115K miles I once got a code 51 and rough idle, stumbling on my Dodge Daytona. Took it to the dealer (because I also needed work that I could not do in my driveway). They told me that my O2 sensor was bad, the EGR valve, and probably the MAP sensor. I paid the diagnostic and took it away from them.
Went home, did my own diagnosis. EGR worked fine. O2 was fine; the trouble occurred even with engine stone cold. Replaced the MAP, as unplugging the vacuum line smoothed out the idle. That was it. $30 repair instead of the $240 shotgun the dealer wanted.
What had happened, and the reason it tripped a code 51 and not a code 13, is that the MAP sensor's output had drifted, become non-linear just enough to screw up the mixture. But the computer only looks for the sensor to be out of bounds at the limits of vacuum, with no sampling points in between. So the O2 sensor saw the mixture was off and slammed to one end of the scale, tripping its code. The O2 sensor lasted til 190K miles, and the EGR diaphragm finally ripped in the transducer at 130K miles. I diagnosed and replaced each.
Most mechanics these days can't troubleshoot.
I had another situation with the car where it was skipping and at idle it would actually stumble, almost stall and recover. At idle it would trip a code 13, but not while driving at speed. Also, the voltmeter would plunge to 11V and then snap back to 14V. Most people would replace the MAP, the alternator, or the computer for its voltage regulation. It took weeks of diagnosis because I work full-time and don't have a garage for shelter, but I finally found a short in the cooling fan harness. It was yanking the alternator output down, which would cause the engine to almost stall, which would drop the vacuum enough to trip the code 13. Cost me $20 for a relay, wiring and connectors to bypass the defective harness. My wife had urged me to bring it to the dealer or junk it (same thing, right?). Been working fine for a year now.
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