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23:36:31 - 12/19/2024
V6 Dakotas
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GB2000
GenIII
1/11/2007
04:24:02
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 Subject: The Driving Safely Thread
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Okay...this was inspired by some stuff that was said in this thread...
http://www.dodgedakota.net/boards/v6/14576.html
I decided to bring up a few things based on observations I've made over the past 5 years or so of driving.
After I got my license...I wrecked my truck/nearly wrecked my truck more times than I'd like to admit. I've never been in an accident with another vehicle except once but I was parked and standing next to my truck when that wreck occurred.
Anyway... Bob Lincoln posted telling me I need to grow up because lately I've been having fun burning off my tires on corners and such. While in most situations, I would agree...I'd like to give my thoughts on why I think doing stuff like this can actually be positive.
First off, I DO NOT advocate driving crazily in situations where other vehicles/people can be hit. If you're going to do it, do it in a place where you can be SURE (and can double-check simply by looking) that nobody is anywhere NEAR where you intend to be or where you could possibly end up (since unexpected things can and do happen).
With that being said...I personally believe that it's actually a GOOD idea to drive like an idiot when you're following what I said in the above paragraph. Why? Because in my experience...most accidents involving traction loss or requiring you to react extremely quickly were because the drivers either didn't know what to do when they got into the situation or they panicked. Now obviously in situations involving failure to obey traffic signs, traffic around you, etc...generally those accidents happen before you have a chance to try and avoid them. What I'm referring to is more stuff like...losing traction...or things that catch you by surprise.
If you're on the interstate and you get off on a wet exit that's got a pretty tight curve and lose traction...most people panic...and they overcorrect themselves which sends them into a spin 10x worse than the initial spin. I know I have multiple times. The most memorable was when my rear end broke loose and I ended up doing 55mph BACKWARDS...missing the wall on the right side of me (when facing the proper direction of traffic) by mere INCHES. Of course, if I would have remained calm in that situation...I could have totally come out of that spin with only a little fishtailing. Which is why I've been practicing driving like an idiot around curves and stuff...and practicing stuff like 180's (from a stop...don't feel like rolling my truck or blowing tires off the rims doing it from a roll).
The guy I work for owns his own industrial park...so some nights when I'm leaving from his house after shooting a few late-night games of pool, I'll mash the gas on the corners and practice keeping my truck under control as I go around the corner with the tires spinning. Yes, it's hard on the truck...and I can break something if I get loose and slam into the curb...but I've noticed that since I've been practicing that stuff, when I take corners a little faster than I should have for the conditions and start to spin out, I'm usually able to remain calm and pull right out of it without freaking out and hitting something. Now of course, I don't consider myself a professional at it...and I wouldn't think to try and pull a corner sideways with parked cars or pedestrians walking down the street while I do it...but I am confident that I can avoid those types of accidents a lot better.
Anyone else wish to chime in with their opinions on this?
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Dan M
Dodge Dakota
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1/11/2007
06:16:55
| RE: The Driving Safely Thread
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I'll start by saying that I've been driving almost 15 years now and have been in 3 accidents.
1) other car drove straight in a turning lane only as i turned in in the other lane. It was almost $1000 worth of damage to my old 95 dakota that i had owned for about 2 months at the time.
2) van full of youths did a 4 lane change in front of me, I skidded into them. This was a hit and run. I did get the tag number and called 911 from my cell phone. Turns out it was just paint on my bumper, I didn't get the chance to find that out until after I had already called the police. I did file a report. I bet someoen was in trouble that night with their parents. Kids need to learn and take responsibility. If you're old enough to drive, you're old enough to know better than to do a hit and run.
3) Someone backed into me at a stop sign (guy actually put car in reverse and backed up to let a cop turn when the cop had plenty of room). The look on the cops face was priceless as he saw the guy backing up into me. only damage was to my front tag mount.
Having driven for this long and in many large cities, I've been involved in hundreds of near misses. 99% of them were the result of the other driving being carelss/stupid/in a rush.
"If you're on the interstate and you get off on a wet exit that's got a pretty tight curve and lose traction". That means you're driving too fast. it's an exit, you should be braking or have breaked enough to slow down so as not to lose traction.
Driving in not a right, it's a privlidge. You should always be looking what's going on around you because some people are just bad/stupid/carless/dumb drivers. A car is a seveal thousand pound weapon, treat it as such.
Do "accidents" happen? sometimes, but not all that often. Most "accidents" are the result of someone being carless.
Personally, i'm a d!ckhead when it comes to driving, I have no tolerance for idiots. I expect other drivers to be "smart drivers". There's a road at a light before an on ramp to the highway. They will get a green light to turn right as they have to cross the lane of traffic is is for the entrance only to the highway. I have people all the time blocking that lane while their light is red trying to cross it. Why do that? If your light is red, wait, do NOT block the lane for traffic entering the highway. This is just bad driving. In my opinion drivers like that have no business driving. If someone does that to me when my light is green to cross the intersection to get on the highway, i'm going to stop right next them and continue honking the horn until they move.
Also, if you are in a turning lane and realize you don't need to rurn, don't just stop blocking traffic from proceeding on an arror to turn hoping to change lanes to a straight lane. Turn, go down to another road and turn around. Don't be an @55head and make others wait and suffer for you being dumb.
Also, most insurance companies policies are to give as cheap a rental vehicle as possible. This usually means a sub compact/compact/or potentially a midsize car. The guy who hit me in my old truck in #1 above's insurance company was only willing to pay for a compact car. My accident happened on a saturday, the next friday i was going out of town on a camping/fishing trip. It took some arguing from me with his insurance company to get me a)a truck and b) them willing to let me take it out of state. So if you are in an accident, becareful in dealing with other people's insurance companies.
- Dan M
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Trevor
Dodge Dakota
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1/11/2007
08:09:36
| RE: The Driving Safely Thread
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I agree with GB2000...once you know...and really know how to drive a vehicle, you are an a lot better driver for it. If you know the limits of your vehicle, and your own limits, you know what you can and can't do. Driving training teaches a very basic understanding of vehicles, and if you want to become a good driver, you have to learn on your own.
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Dan M
Dodge Dakota
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1/11/2007
08:16:49
| RE: The Driving Safely Thread
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If you really want to be a better driver, get one of the city/county/state drivers to teach you how to drive. These are the guys that teach police, fire, ems, etc how to drive. They make you drive 60 on wet roads and lock up the brakes, yelling at you the whole time to distract you.
One of my fishing buddie's is an officer with a local fire department. He recently went through this course again.
- Dan M
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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1/11/2007
08:22:22
| RE: The Driving Safely Thread
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"If you're on the interstate and you get off on a wet exit that's got a pretty tight curve and lose traction...most people panic...and they overcorrect themselves which sends them into a spin 10x worse than the initial spin. I know I have multiple times. The most memorable was when my rear end broke loose and I ended up doing 55mph BACKWARDS...missing the wall on the right side of me (when facing the proper direction of traffic) by mere INCHES. Of course, if I would have remained calm in that situation..."
And that's the key. If you are a calm, confident driver, you will not panic if you lose traction. No amount of spinning out is going to teach you to be a better driver. Handling a vehicle under control over years is what will give you confidence. If you are the type of person who will panic, you will panic during the real thing, no matter how much you practiced.
I once hit a patch of ice hidden under snow in my RWD Dart. I was going 40 mph in a 55 zone, which was the average speed of the traffic and seemed to be safe. I spun out and could not get the car straight again, even with gentle correction. I ended up with the left side of the car facing forward and sliding toward a guard rail where it came up out of the ground. Behind it was a deep swamp. I did not panic, I just held on for the ride. I climbed the guard rail sideways and came to a stop with the front wheels off the ground. A tow truck later pulled me off with the only damage being a very slight groove in part of the floorpan, and a partially crushed tailpipe. I was able to drive to work. Had I panicked, I might have played with the steering more and hit someone. As it was, I did not hit anyone as I slid. But no amount of practice in spinning out or speeding, or burning out tires, would have mattered in preparing for that situation.
So how old ARE you? How many years have you been driving? I'm 45 and have nearly 29 years of driving experience, with about 500,000 miles of driving in all conditions (including 7 years as a firefighter/EMT driving a rescue and a ladder truck). Even in emergency driving, I never pulled the stunts you described.
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GB2000
GenIII
1/11/2007
13:33:15
| RE: The Driving Safely Thread
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"And that's the key. If you are a calm, confident driver, you will not panic if you lose traction. No amount of spinning out is going to teach you to be a better driver. Handling a vehicle under control over years is what will give you confidence. If you are the type of person who will panic, you will panic during the real thing, no matter how much you practiced. "
I do agree with that...however, in order to be a confident driver, you need to know what to do in that situation. And I don't mean book knowledge. You need to actually have experience in that situation...under more controlled conditions though. For example...I have tons of book knowledge. I can sit here and diagnose Dakota problems all day long...or tell you how each and every one of the popular mods works...but there's no way in hell I could actually install some of the stuff myself. How do I know that? I've already tried some stuff and ended up breaking things in the process. It's just not the same...knowing how to do something and actually doing it.
Now I do also agree burnouts, drag racing, donuts, etc aren't going to help you in real world driving. I don't have much of a problem with those things if you do it in a secluded area away from people (except for drag racing...take it to a track), but you're right...it's not gonna do a damned thing for you. However, when you're taking a tight corner and you intentionally break your tires loose around that corner...either you're gonna lose control of your vehicle or you're gonna learn how to handle it so you can come out of it smoothly, which in turn will make you more confident when you get put stuck in that position.
Dan M,
I pretty much agree with everything you've said...when I referred to losing traction on the exit ramp, it wasn't so much due to speeding...the first time I was exiting off the interstate and merging into traffic on a highway. I was going around 40 (speed limit on that highway is either 55 or 60...can't remember which at the moment) and my tires just couldn't grip the curve...my foot wasn't even on the gas when I started sliding. Turns out the road was just a little damp...and that's all it took for me to completely lose it.
Another time I was getting off the interstate and I was slowed way down...at the end of the ramp I was making a left turn and I don't know if I hit a patch of oil or what, but damn...my ass end just slid right out. I caught it and managed to keep from hitting the vehicles waiting at the light, though I overcorrected prolly 3 times in the process. I was prolly doing 25mph tops. Had a vehicle right in front of me and I wasn't going any faster than they were. But yeah...overall...you're right...it's an exit ramp...people should be braking for it. But sometimes they don't realize the road conditions are that much worse than they appear and they lose control.
As far as taking a course with the people who teach the police/fire/EMS drivers how to drive. I would LOVE to do that...but around here the only way you can get into a course like that is if you're taking a program that requires it. Either that or you gotta pay out the ass for it.
I'm almost 21 and been driving since I was 15. Haven't had a ticket or a wreck since I was 16...well except one kinda-wreck when I was 18, but it was an accident while attempting to off-road in my truck...stupid idea btw.
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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1/12/2007
08:21:12
| RE: The Driving Safely Thread
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"Dan M,
I pretty much agree with everything you've said...when I referred to losing traction on the exit ramp, it wasn't so much due to speeding...the first time I was exiting off the interstate and merging into traffic on a highway. I was going around 40 (speed limit on that highway is either 55 or 60...can't remember which at the moment) and my tires just couldn't grip the curve...my foot wasn't even on the gas when I started sliding. Turns out the road was just a little damp...and that's all it took for me to completely lose it. "
DanM didn't say you were speeding, he said you were going too fast. And your story proves it. In that spinout, I ended up getting a ticket for driving too fast for the weather conditions, even though I was traveling the same speed as everyone else. Had I gone even slower, would I still have spun out? Almost certainly. But in your case, you let centrifugal force overcome your friction - bad judgment. Experience will correct that.
I have had only two accidents - one when 21 years old and a defective traffic light suddenly changed red directly from green, and one when I was 30, when I dozed at the wheel and grazed someone. Again - bad judgment in the 2nd case. But burnouts will teach you nothing, as you said, except how expensive tires and new drivetrains are.
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modain
GenIII
1/12/2007
12:13:21
|  RE: The Driving Safely Thread
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Dan M, I'm with you - [Personally, i'm a d!ckhead when it comes to driving, I have no tolerance for idiots. I expect other drivers to be "smart drivers".] But I prefer referring to myself as an a$$h0le. You're term doesn't suit me. :-)
Successful driving today means we have to pay attention for the other drivers on the road to avoid becoming their next plaintif. Success means we have to anticipate and plan for their bonehead moves.
I've been driving for 30 years (wow, that makes me sound "old") and have driven at least 600,000 miles during that time. One small wreck at 17, and I backed into a parked car (d'oh!) at 32. Close calls (not to my charge), but I attribute the lack of wrecks from not driving with my head under my butt.
Experience, knowledge, proper judgement, and practice are necessary to safely operate a motor vehicle. Of those, only the knowledge can be purchased (professional driving shcools, etc.), the others must be gained and cultivate through life and time.
What's your left foot doing?
=========================================
2002 Graphite QC SLT Plus, 4.7L, NV3500, Superchips 3715, 3.92 LSD, loads o'fun...
2001 Patriot Blue Durango SLT, 4.7L, 45RFE, Superchips 3715, 3.55 Open (for now)
1999 Forest Green Dakota RC Sport, 2.5L, NV1500, 3.55 Open
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Trevor
Dodge Dakota
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1/12/2007
17:27:54
| RE: The Driving Safely Thread
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Do you guys see any benefit from doing donuts in a parking lot after a new snow?
Sure it's alot of fun, but you learn how to handle a vehicle, in less than optimal conditions.
I am just a kid myself at 19, I havn't had any bad accidents, I bumped a post one time that was too short for me to see, but other than that, nothing.
There have been several times on the other hand where somebody has cut me off, when the roads were slick. If I wasnt as aware as my truck's capabilities, i would have piled right into them - at 'my' fault. Instead, I knew that there was no way around them, unless i put her in 4x4. So, i put in 4x4, and drove around them...
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GB2000
GenIII
1/12/2007
18:45:32
| RE: The Driving Safely Thread
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I have had a few people (older adults) recommend doing donuts in an empty parking lot after a fresh snow...not concentrating on doing donuts, but concentrating on turning sharp enough to the point that you start to spin and then have you pull the vehicle back straight. The overall goal is NOT to do donuts and it's supposed to help younger drivers out for their first experiences driving on snow-covered roads...teaches them how much they slide when they try and pull a corner like they would on dry roads, what happens if they steer the opposite direction their sliding rather than go with the slide and pull it out, etc. I can't remember for sure, but I think even my driver's ed teacher recommended it. All I know is whenever I tried it, I always ended up heading straight for the light poles so I decided that wasn't something I cared to do...lol.
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Trevor
Dodge Dakota
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1/12/2007
20:54:42
| RE: The Driving Safely Thread
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I did it in driver training too...my driving partner couldn't do it at all haha
Yea, my goal is just to have fun in an open lot, but I know for a fact I've learnt from it.
There have been lots of roll overs around here, always young kids. I wonder how many people realize what to do with a front wheel drive/rear wheel drive vehicle, when you've lost traction all of a sudden...
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works2long
Dodge Dakota
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1/12/2007
22:40:44
| RE: The Driving Safely Thread
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if ya buy the best goodyear tires and follow the posted speed limits youll have no probs.......
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Mike Stager
Dodge Dakota
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1/13/2007
00:15:43
| RE: The Driving Safely Thread
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A lot can be learned from playing games like Gran Turismo also. I've been driving for a while myself, but playing a game that actually teaches you how to stop properly, how to turn, how to move the weight of the vehicle around a corner so you have maximum traction and maximum speed while staying in control, and then being able to force the car to its limits and learning what it takes to drift a car around the bend....there's a lot to be said about that kind of experience too. I never really understood what braking into a corner really did if you did it the right way until I saw and had to mimic it in a game.
When it comes to driving a car in real life, nothing beats taking your car into a snowy parking lot and finding out what it takes to lose traction/control and what it takes to get it back. More importantly, learning when you have gone over that boundary and are just in for the ride and learning when you'll have an opportunity to gain control back.
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GB2000
GenIII
1/13/2007
01:53:41
| RE: The Driving Safely Thread
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Gran Turismo gave me a lot of "book knowledge" but ain't no way I'd try half that stuff just cuz I knew how to do it...and I was pretty good at that game. lol
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Dan M
Dodge Dakota
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1/13/2007
10:30:16
| RE: The Driving Safely Thread
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Just because the posted speed limit is 55 doesn't mean you can always drive 55. Driving is alot of common sense. If it's snowing or raining, you simply can't drive as fast as you can on dry pavement. There are laws for speeding existing conditions.
Why do you think it's recommended you check air pressure every 30 days in your tires? It's not because the tire manufactures want to make you look like an idiot. Tire pressure has alot to do with driving stability. Also, it gets you down to the tire and you can see the conditions of the tires. How do you know when it's time to change tires? I know by checking them (depth of tread, smoothness of tread, uneven wear, etc). Also, I know when I'm driving it if it handles differently. especially making turns on wet roads. I'm not purposing trying to gun it and spin the tires, but worn tires will spin more on wet payment than new tires. I recently purchased another set of tires for my truck. No longer on wet pavement does my LSD lock in when i make turns.
how many of you actually check your tires often (30 days or less)?
and modain, it's better to be an @$$h0le than a wh0le@$$ :)
- Dan M
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modain
GenIII
1/13/2007
20:39:26
|  RE: The Driving Safely Thread
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Big smile. Never thought of it that way. I'll keep that in mind. :-)
What's your left foot doing?
=========================================
2002 Graphite QC SLT Plus, 4.7L, NV3500, Superchips 3715, 3.92 LSD, loads o'fun...
2001 Patriot Blue Durango SLT, 4.7L, 45RFE, Superchips 3715, 3.55 Open (for now)
1999 Forest Green Dakota RC Sport, 2.5L, NV1500, 3.55 Open
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J and J Auto
GenII
1/16/2007
02:36:11
| RE: The Driving Safely Thread
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Message:
My record is spot free now
knock on wood
in 1996 I got a ticket for not obeying a road sign
LOL in a construction zone
in 1977 I got 2 nice ones
eluding a police officer
and 90 over in a 55 145mph 69 road runner 383
ballanced and blue printed by me with a 6 pack
out ran the town cop and 2 state boys
Dam thought I got away with it but the local
cheif called me the next day and said I could
come pick up my tickets any time LOL
these days my cruse is set on 60mph unless I am
with a group of cars than I will cruse 70 80mph
the limit around here is 55mph northern wisconsin
michigan
we have 3 spots we run the cars and trucks out
but we have cumunications on both sides of
these spots straight roads for 3 to 5 miles
not on a crowded high way thats crazy $hit
we worrie more about deer out at these race spots
than other people in cars
Oh I did have 1 accident with the 69 runner
side swiped a tele pole smacked my door but I
shifted to 2nd at 60mph broke the tire lose
and went off the road threw a ditch and back
up and drove away had to replace the door but
I had like 6 other cars in the yard for parts
I still have that car bought it when I was 19
years old actualy I traded my 70
challanger for it 318 4 speed
Those were fun days back in the late 60's early 70's for me
Larry
J&J Auto
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boomer
Dodge Dakota
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1/16/2007
08:17:50
| RE: The Driving Safely Thread
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I agree with GB2000. going out in a SAFE SECLUDED place and practice some driving situations is never a bad idea. I love to test my skills as far as breakin the rear end loose and really push the limits sometimes. good way to learn. im not a pro driver in any case either but I do have the confidence to be one if I were trained and tested for it. I'd love to take one of those police driving tests, even before being trained on it properly. just to see where Im at, know what I mean? and of course doin burnouts and stuff doesnt teach you a lot but it can teach you how not to do it when you're stuck at a light due to snow or whatever and traffic is barreling down on you. paying attention to everyone and everything else around you is probably the biggest key to driving. if you cant see a threat, theres nothing you can do about it till its too late.
heres a good example. one time I was on the freeway and it was snowing pretty bad. it wasnt thick on the road but thick enough to loose traction very easily. anyways, i couldnt drive very fast without my rear end starting to slip out. my tires must not of had enough air pressure because it was stupid how easy it was to break loose at 55, speed limit is 70. anyhow, i was keepin a constant pace, not slidding or anything and I seen a semi way back behind me. well, he was moving a lot faster then I was, thats for sure. he was in my lane and was comming fast, so I moved to the other lane to let his ass thru. it was only a 2 lane freeway at that point, and when I was changing lanes I was all over the place. I kept my heading strait but the back tires kept spinnin and losing grip. well, when I changed lanes he changed with me, and he was movin, scared the crap out of me, so i got back in the other lane and he started to follow me. I dont know if he was just f*ckin with me or what but I about had a heart attack. he finally passed me in the left lane but drove next to me for a second like he was tryin to talk to me, but wtf hes in a semi, I couldnt see him. BUT the point is if I didnt know how to control my truck in that situation I would have been ran off the road and stranded or dead for that matter. the little experimenting I did with fishtailing and sliding gave me the experience to know what to do and what not to do going that fast. its definetly worth practicing. when my kids get old enough to drive I'm going to let them learn traction control, just not in my car!
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What???
Dodge Dakota
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1/16/2007
15:11:14
| RE: The Driving Safely Thread
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I can't believe you guys are spending so much time and energy on this thread.
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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1/16/2007
16:43:27
| RE: The Driving Safely Thread
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when that white stuff is on the roads down here there aren't many cars out there either. you guys can have that stuff. it's what we call duck and goose weather. duck under the covers and goose the old lady!
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