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bludak
Dodge Dakota
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10/15/2006
19:18:15
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 Subject: Noisy lifters
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O.K, so I had a problem with the lifters rattling on start up when the truck sat overnight so I run down to the local NAPA store and get new roller lifters and they are not cheap. Instal them and soon after its doing the same thing. No, its not the timing chain, what the heck is going on?? This is very upsetting, it was a lot of work to change them out let alone the cost. Is there a faulty lifter in the bunch? How could I be this lucky?????
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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10/16/2006
00:24:53
| RE: Noisy lifters
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Every time I hear this lifter problem, 99% of the time it is the oil filter draining back throughout the night. Most filters are good but if your using a fram filter or a fram with differant markings. there are several companies that use these with there brand on them. For some years Dodge was installing good filters at the factory but when you went to the dealer for a replacement you got a black fram filter in a Mopar box. They have a cheap plastic valve that fails regularly plus it alows unfiltered oil to be dumped back in the pan. The ends of the filtering material is glued to cardboard which also can and does fail. When the oil drains down, it takes a bit of time to reload the filter and the valve train which is the highest point in your engine. I'd almost bet money this is your problem.
Just for history sake some will tell you they have used these frams for years and years with no problem. At one time long ago frams were good filters. This changed when they got involved with the big box stores who wanted to buy bulk with dirt cheap prices. Also the lub joints get these filters cheaper yet. There special made super cheap and these special filters are sold only to the lub joints. Remember, there are frams hiding behind other brand names as well. Do your reserch and pick your poison. there are many good ones out there.
So many problems .... So little time
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J and J Auto
GenII
 
10/16/2006
01:03:43
| RE: Noisy lifters
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Go back to napa and get one of the gold series oil
filters made by wix
OBDI3 the valve is not even plastic its cardboard
the fram is junk as are many of the cheap filters
Wix
Baldwin
Amsoil
K&N
the first 2 are around $5
the Amsoil and K&N have a sythetic medium filter
not paper and steel valve $10 they also hold more
dirt and filter down to 10 microns
I run the K&N royal purple 6,000 miles, the K&N
also has a 1" hex on the end makes removing
very easy
you screwd with the rest now try the best
It is also posible you got the rhodes varible
duration lifters
Larry
J&J Auto
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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10/16/2006
01:51:20
| RE: Noisy lifters
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I wasn't aware they went from a cheap plastic valve to a cardboard one but it doesn't surprise me. Frams main interest is to keep the price as low as possible with no reguard for quality in order to maintian the lowest possible prices to keep the big box stores in there pocket.
So many problems .... so little time
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bludak
Dodge Dakota
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10/16/2006
09:35:44
| RE: Noisy lifters
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Thank you guys, I will go the WIX route and post my findings!
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jayb
Dodge Dakota
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10/16/2006
23:38:48
| RE: Noisy lifters
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DAMNIT! Im running fram! I'm changing my filter tomorrow! I should have known not to use Shotty filters!
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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10/17/2006
08:29:07
| RE: Noisy lifters
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Has anyone dissected the Fram Tough Guard filters and compared them to the regular ones to see if the construction is the same?
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Joe M.
Dodge Dakota
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10/17/2006
09:24:15
|  RE: Noisy lifters
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hey Larry once again has this covered
Wix in "MHO" are the best!
there was a website out there somewhere
that did an independent study on filters
K&N came in #1 wix with a close behind #2
both scored high on filtering
and wix was only slightly behind with oil pressure drop, (fram scoring the lowest there)
so when you compare the price of the two
wix would be the choice for most
they even make the small filters for the lawn an garden tractors
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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10/17/2006
21:45:50
| RE: Noisy lifters
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Can't argue with wix. NAPA GOLD FILTERS are wix. Car Quest fiters are wix. at least in these parts. There are others. Just ask the parts guy who makes there filters. Wix makes filters for several.Our NAPA parts store has a great display with several cut open filters. You don't need to be an expert to see which are good filters.
So many problems .... So little time
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J and J Auto
GenII
10/18/2006
02:06:48
| RE: Noisy lifters
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oilfilterstudy.com I think
what do you want with a filter that cost $1.69
I have a 1962 studbreaker 3/4 ton truck with a
sweasteaks 289 paxon blower and the filter is
right in front of the carb on top the motor
with a fram no oil runs out with others a messy
job to change
this old truck gets 25mpg and will hit 130mph
now thats vintage iron LOL motor out of a silve
hawk
back in 1968 bought this car and a 1957 chrysler
new yorker 392 hemi both $150 the hawk is history
but still have the 57 actualy 2 57 new yorker
hemi cars now there is a tank with the hemi this
lead slead will do 135mph
Larry
J&J Auto
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Joe M.
Dodge Dakota
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10/18/2006
18:34:20
| RE: Noisy lifters
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hey Larry
and worst off with the ole studes
it's also upside down! LOL
and hey dont forget
the dip them in wrinkle black paint now
for that "no slip" grip!
so thats another buck now! lmao
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J and J Auto
GenII
10/19/2006
02:32:09
| RE: Noisy lifters
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Yes its upside down straight up and down
I am going to sell the stud truck someday it was
my fathers since around 1968 had a 6 he put the
289 and auto trans in the truck
last time I started it I had to put a starter in
it clean the points and she fired right up man
the little 2bl under the blower cover is tiny
Larry
J&J Auto
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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10/19/2006
02:48:50
| RE: Noisy lifters
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LARRY... With all due respect, It was always my understanding the study silver hawk was the 6er and the golden hawk was the V8 with the optional supercharger. I was a teenager in 57 when My dad bought the golden hawk.It also had the standard with overdrive. There just wasn't nothing around here that could touch it lol. That car cornered well to.
So many problems .... So little time
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fotodak
Dodge Dakota
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10/19/2006
11:39:49
| RE: Noisy lifters
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The oil filter study was done by Russ Knize at the Mini Mopar Resources site.
Fram is crap, based on his studies get a Motorcraft or Purolator.
In fact, back in the 80s Ford issued a TSB on 5.0 Mustangs that had lifter rattle on startup. The problem?
Fram filters.
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bludak
Dodge Dakota
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10/20/2006
23:52:29
| RE: Noisy lifters
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O.K, I changed oil, put in the Wix Gold series filter, ran downtown for a bit, let the truck sit overnight and there it was again, rattling through the top end for a few seconds on fresh start up. So I figure, alright, I will cruise around some more, let the truck warm up real good, then head off to work and let it sit about 4 hours till its time to go home for lunch. Again, rattling on start up. Now what??? This is very frustrating especially when I put in new lifters already.
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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10/21/2006
01:36:39
| RE: Noisy lifters
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I'm wondering if the filter was letting the oil pass without cleaning it alowing the larger pieces of carbin that should have been removed enter your lifters. If this happened to be correct the lifters could well be leaking down. Or.. maybe it's the brand lifters you put in . Maybe poor quality. Other then that, I'm coming up empty. Was the new lifters quiet for at least a short time when installed . If so, i'd be suspect of lifter problems.
So many problems .... So little time
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Mike Stager
Dodge Dakota
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10/21/2006
01:38:32
| RE: Noisy lifters
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Well, your lifters sound like they are bleeding down. I hadn't noticed, but are you running the correct weight engine oil? I can only assume that since the noise goes away, the oil pump is working and pressuring them right back up. How long does it take for the rattle to go away? Should only take a few seconds if everything is working right. If not, I'm going to have to say that you've got another problem with this.
When you put the rocker arms back on, did you follow the directions properly for reinstalling and torquing them? The reason I ask is that I just saw a torched Camshaft due to someone over tightening the rockers and just destroyed the lobes and lifters on a couple of cylinders ( this was a chev 350 with flat tappets mind you, I don't know the tighting sequence on the 3.9 off hand ).
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Mike Stager
Dodge Dakota
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10/21/2006
01:43:39
| RE: Noisy lifters
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One more thought on this. Are you sure it's the lifter and not possibly an exhaust leak? It'd be crazy to be chasing down a lifter problem when it just might be a loose or broken exhaust manifold bolt. My Dak has 2 broken bolts currently and it ticks like crazy cold, but once the manifold warms up, it goes away...comes back if the engine sits for a few minutes ( manifold cools ) and goes away shortly after enough exhaust gas has passed to warm it back up to seal the leak, as there is no gasket for the manifolds...expansion can cure a leak.
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bludak
Dodge Dakota
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10/21/2006
11:12:22
| RE: Noisy lifters
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Ya, its the lifters, it goes away after just a few seconds. I must have gotten a bad one in the bunch when I put the new ones in. I am really not looking forward to doing it all over again right now, so I will put a few more miles on it and see if maybe the one bleeding down will loosen up or something and start to work o.k. I doubt that will happen though as I just came back from a long mountain range trip this summer and it didn't go away after that. Aftermarket lifters must not be very good, don't remember what brand they were but am going to look up the invoice and see if I can get some warranty. I have the Harland Sharp rockers and there is no way to tighten them down wrong so that would not be the problem. Thanks for the suggestion.
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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10/21/2006
15:41:17
| RE: Noisy lifters
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BLUDAK........ You need to state your problems as accurate as possible. You clearly stated RATTLING LIFTERS not ONE LIFTER. Everybody that answered including myself Got the defenite impression ALL your lifters were rattling. One lifter sounding off is a whole differant program. Pretty obvious you have ONE BAD LIFTER.
So many problems .... So little time
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bludak
Dodge Dakota
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10/22/2006
10:50:58
| RE: Noisy lifters
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Its so hard to tell on start-up, it could be 1, 2,3,6 or whatever. It is noisy and then goes away. Thats as accurate as I can get. If I put a stethoscope on the valve cover then had someone start it I may get a better idea, but thats a tough way to do it. I would have to do that every morning at each cold start up. Just thought you guys may have run across this before, and you did, and the oil filter thing was a good suggestion, just didn't help me this time, although it is a very good thing that you pointed out that the fram filters are not very good. I guess just because new lifters were installed, i assumed they were all good. Too bad, its been too long to go back on them now. I will live with it.
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