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Robert
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2006
11:55:04
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 Subject: 93 Dakota wont start
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I have a 93 Dodge Dakota with about 360,000 miles. There have no unusual problems with it. The other day while driving at about 40 mph it died and would not start again. I have read most of the related postings here and checked out some of the suggestions. One thing I can say is that I do not hear the fuel pump for a couple of seconds when you switch between the on and start positions of the key. I have a 2001 Chrysler van and a 2000 Durango which I can hear clearly. I do not have the wire splice problem that has been reported. I have swapped relays around in the under-hood box. I do not have the pulsing 12v at the coil. One thing I intend to check is for power at the fuel pump. The five wires that go up there are Blue with yellow tracer, Blue with black tracer, Green with black tracer and two blacks. I presume the two blacks are grounds and at least one of the others is the fuel gauge (which works correctly by the way). Could someone tell me which is the fuel pump power? I hope this is not the onboard computer as some have reported. I have kept driving this thing just to see how far it will go and I need a truck from time to time. 99.999% of the miles are highway.
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jayb
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2006
14:14:12
|  RE: 93 Dakota wont start
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did you check the easy sh!t first? you never mentioned checking the fuses?!
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Robert
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2006
18:28:09
| RE: 93 Dakota wont start
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Yes, I checked the fuses when I swapped the relays around. All are OK.
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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10/09/2006
09:14:41
| RE: 93 Dakota wont start
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"I do not have the wire splice problem that has been reported." How did you verify this? Do you have 12V at all the relay terminals that should get 12V?
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Robert
Dodge Dakota
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10/09/2006
10:09:07
| RE: 93 Dakota wont start
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I did not measure at the relay terminals but I did measure at the splice after I remade and soldered it but before I taped it up.
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Chris
Dodge Dakota
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10/09/2006
16:48:20
| RE: 93 Dakota wont start
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If you've that many miles on the original fuel pump, and now you can't hear it when you turn the key on, then I would be real suspicious of that.
I believe my 93 3.9 has a shrader valve on the fuel line to tap in a pressure guage. You might want to try that. If you don't already have one, a cheap little guage can be good investment. It might save you from throwing a bunch of expensive parts at the truck trying to get it to run.
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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10/10/2006
08:10:46
| RE: 93 Dakota wont start
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"I did not measure at the relay terminals but I did measure at the splice after I remade and soldered it but before I taped it up." It's free and it can't hurt to check at the relays before buying parts.
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Robert
Dodge Dakota
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10/10/2006
22:17:41
| RE: 93 Dakota wont start
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New information on the won't start problem.
Tonight I carefully removed a little of the insulation on each of the five wires at the place where the fuel pump/gas gauge wires exit the wiring harness in front of the left rear wheel well.
With the switch turned to ON, the Blue/Black wire measures 12 v to either of the black wires. With the switch ON, the Blue/Yellow wire measures 5 v to either of the black wires. I don't see anything on the Green/Black in any switch condition.
I have checked the ASD and Fuel Pump relays and the coils are good. I removed their covers so I could see whether or not they were pulling in when attempting to start the truck and neither is pulling in. Of course I don't know if they are supposed to but my guess is that they are since they are obviously low current relays (by the size of wire and number of turns) so they will operate under poor voltage conditions.
Consequently, my conclusion now is that the Blue/Yellow is the return side of the fuel pump motor which should be closer to 0 v if the relays would pull in. Maybe someone can teel me if that is a correct assumption.
So besides a poor ground return, what could cause the relays not to pull in (if they are supposed to)? Something with the onboard computer?
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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10/11/2006
08:19:28
| RE: 93 Dakota wont start
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"So besides a poor ground return, what could cause the relays not to pull in (if they are supposed to)? "
Umm.... low or no voltage? It seems that you still didn't measure the voltage at the relay sockets. Don't know why you wouldn't, if you went to the trouble to open the relay packages.
I found I had less than 5V to my starter relay at the socket, had 16K ohms of resistance between battery and socket. It doesn't have to be an open circuit to fail. I think you're wasting your time with the fuel pump wiring.
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Chris
Dodge Dakota
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10/11/2006
10:27:19
| RE: 93 Dakota wont start
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I believe that on most electronic FI cars nowadays, you only get power to the pump for a second or two when you first turn on the ignition, to pressurize the fuel line. Then the circuit goes dead until you crank the engine and ignition impulses are sensed. If no ignition pulses, then no more fuel pressure. This helps to avoid flooding the engine if you aren't getting spark. (This may also provide a bit of a safety feature, in that if you get in a bad accident that severes a fuel line, the pump will stop when the engine dies.) I'd be rather surpised if these trucks are not rigged this same way. Anyway, I'm drifting off here. The point is, you may be sampling the voltage when none is expected, even if the ignition switch is on.
Just as a test, can always run a jumper wire straight from the battery to the pump if you suspect you have a good pump but a bad relay or power wire. Good luck.
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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10/11/2006
10:48:44
| RE: 93 Dakota wont start
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"I do not have the pulsing 12v at the coil."
maybe check the crank position sensor.
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Chris
Dodge Dakota
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10/11/2006
13:18:28
| RE: 93 Dakota wont start
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Have you read out the fault codes?
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Robert
Dodge Dakota
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10/11/2006
20:00:20
| RE: 93 Dakota wont start
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I don't know how to read the fault codes.
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Chris
Dodge Dakota
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10/12/2006
08:21:11
| RE: 93 Dakota wont start
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You turn the ignition switch ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON, each turn is within a second or two of the previous. Upon the last "ON", you leave it on and count the blinks of the Check Engine light. If you have some kind of repair manual (mine happens to be Haynes) it should give you the procedure and a discription of what each code means. Maybe there's somewhere on this site that has that info, but I'm not familiar enough with it.
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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10/12/2006
08:33:46
| RE: 93 Dakota wont start
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http://www.allpar.com/fix/80s-codes.html
Again, check voltage to the relay sockets, or at least check resistance.
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J and J Auto
GenII
10/13/2006
21:33:08
| RE: 93 Dakota wont start
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The relays the + comes on with key the ground
side turns on and off while cranking
it will come on for about 2 secs when key is first
turned on than while cranking the best way to
check is with a light the 2 outer termanals
are ground and power the 3 in a row are the
relay switched
The relays can ether turn something on or off
when activated
pin 3 power on off with key
pin 9 power all the time
If you do noty have this its the splice and it
will crank but not start
Larry
J&J Auto
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Robert
Dodge Dakota
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10/18/2006
22:12:07
| RE: 93 Dakota wont start
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First of all, the 1993 Dodge Dakota is running again. Before I get into the blow by blow let me say thanks to those of you who made suggestions that helped along the way. All that notwithstanding, I am still going to take some of the credit.
The short version of the story is that after another trouble shooting session last Wednesday night, I ordered the ECM. It arrived yesterday. I installed it tonight and the truck immediately fired up and runs fine. Of course I knew it was going to start when I heard the fuel pump run when I turned the key on. Now back to the last round of trouble shooting.
Last week I did check the voltage at the realys. No problems. From that I learned that the ground on the relays is pulled on the blue/yellow wires which is the same as goes back to the fuel pump. The one I measured the 5V on.
Somewhere along the way I decided to operate the fuel relay manually (remember I had the lid off)and heard the fuel pump run. Right after that I pushed in the valve (with the head of an 8 penny finishing nail) on the fuel line assembly and fuel squirted out. Since the fuel was squirting out with some force I concluded (rightly or wrongly) that the pressure was OK. Not long after that I decided to order the ECM. Here are the reasons:
(1) The failure was instantaneous. None of the, runs one time not the next episodes, as in some of the posts.
(2) Two separate systems seemed to be failing due to a common cause--fuel pump/relay and ignition (no 12 v on the coil).
(3) The manual operation of the relay had verified that the fuel pump, fuel line, filters and two of the wires to the fuel pump relay were OK.
(4) It would be unlikely that both ASD and fuel pump relays would fail simultaneously.
(5) The coil had already been replaced.
(6) The 5V measured on the blu/yel is what would be expected on a computer controlled gate that was not pulled low when it should be.
(7) The famous splices had been redone.
Anyway, that is it. Thanks again for the help. I think (3) would be a good one to remember.
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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10/19/2006
08:42:18
| RE: 93 Dakota wont start
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Glad you got going again. It pays to do the diagnostic work correctly up front. When my Dak suddenly failed to crank after being parked in the driveway (no prior trouble at all), I checked battery (good), then checked the splice, based on numerous reports here. I had only 4.7V instead of 12V at the relay coil of the starter relay. I measured 16K ohms of resistance between there and battery. Then I pulled the relay and jumped a wire from battery to the downstream side of the relay socket, and the truck cranked instantly. Turned the key to on, jumped it again, and it started. So I knew it was the splice. Fixed it for free, instead of buying unnecessary parts or having it tied up in the shop while they tell me I need a battery or starter, and then still don't fix it.
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Ron Quoetone
Dodge Dakota
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10/29/2006
03:31:56
| RE: 93 Dakota wont start
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I have a 93 Dakota with 186,000 miles. Its a great running vehicle, when it's running. It will run for any where from 1 to 3 weeks when all of sudden it will just die for no reason. Sometimes it will die 1 block from the house or after driving all day at a stop sign in the middle of town. I took my truck to every shop in town even to a Dodge dealer with no luck just a large bill and it still stalls. Each time it dies I have to wait for at least 30 minutes before it will start, but it will start. Could this be form of vapor lock? This is driving me crazy.
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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10/30/2006
10:38:16
| RE: 93 Dakota wont start
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Check fault codes. This could be a bad ignition coil, distributor pickup, bad splice as above, or several other things. Always start with codes.
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layne
Dodge Dakota
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6/02/2012
15:12:57
| RE: 93 Dakota wont start
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i've had my truck for a few years now and it has always been an easy fix, but i recently went out of town for ten days while it sat in the rain. when i came home it would just turn over all day but wouldnt fire up. i have no spark and i'm not getting the full 12v to my coil. like stories above i cannot hear my fuel pump kick on at all. i wasnt getting any fuel through for the first day, i messed with the gas lines and fuel filter a bit and it finally just pushes a few drops out of the release. new spark plugs, cleaned distributor cap, fuzes are good, everything seems fine i just dont know what to do. any suggestions?
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