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2 HI 4X
Dodge Dakota
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5/04/2006
13:45:07
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 Subject: Stalling and Low Idle
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HELP!!! I'm having problems with my 97 3.9 4x4 stalling. Basically it only happens when at idle. If I'm giving it gas its fine. -Somewhat sluggish at times though. But usually when I let off the gas and come to a stop the idle drops down to around 800 or so and acts like its going to stall, and sometimes does. It doesn't happen all the time though. somewhat irratic. I've tried fuel injector cleaner, and resetting the pcm. It only has 56K on it, so I have a hard time believing it is the fuel filter. Any Ideas? Please help, Thanks.!
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Joe M.
Dodge Dakota
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5/04/2006
15:13:13
|  RE: Stalling and Low Idle
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IAC ? & clean the TB maybe ?
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Scott C
Dodge Dakota
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5/04/2006
20:51:36
| RE: Stalling and Low Idle
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your IAC valve is stuck shut... try taping on it with the key on.... after tapping on it try starting it if idles then replace that IAC valve.... cleaning them dont do much for them... their cheap to replace and simple enough to replace...
Scott C
Royal Auto
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2 HI 4 X
Dodge Dakota
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5/05/2006
09:54:33
|  RE: Stalling and Low Idle
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I tried cleaning the IAC last night. -It was pretty dirty, but not stuck shut. After a good cleaning I reassembled it and found that it made it drop back to idle after an engine rev more smoothly, but it didn't fix the problem. -This morning I barely made it to work. -Stalled about every 100 feet. -I pissed off everyone behind me over and over again! Man the bad looks I got. I dropped it off at a repair shop near my work, -He mentioned something about the Accel aftermarket hi output coil I have on it having reports of it going bad and that it would make the truck act like it was out of fuel. -Has anyone else experienced this problem? I really hope its not the fuel pump! -By the way, its now dies while on the gas too. -Not just at idle. So the problem is deffinetly getting worse. Hopefully the repair shop can find out whats wrong.
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Troy E.
Dodge Dakota
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5/13/2006
15:16:42
|  RE: Stalling and Low Idle
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I am dealing with the same problem on my 98
v6 4x4. My check engine light is on, showing a code of P0123(TPS high voltage). Replace TPS and swapped in another used PCM. Still the same. I'll try cleaning the IAC. Does anyone have another possible solution?
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2 HI 4X
Dodge Dakota
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5/16/2006
23:05:24
|  RE: Stalling and Low Idle
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Well, I think I've found the problem. -After taking it in to a local auto shop, and running ever test they could think of on it, checking the fuel pressure, codes, diagnostic computer etc. they couldn't get it to duplicate the same problem (GO FIGURE!). So, get this, the mechanic was actually nice enough to let me borrow the fuel pressure gauge over the weekend. And he didn't even make me pay for the work untill I got back on Monday. -You don't find many mechanics that will let you borrow their tools over the weekend anymore. -Anywaym Joe and Scott, you were right, what I found was the IAC motor was dirty as hell, I cleaned it and for a few days it ran pretty good, not great, still had some idle problems. but atleast it ran. -Untill today. -Came out to go to work, and it started, but died instantly. -Couldn't even get it out the garge. -So I got a new IAC motor, and removed the throttle body and did a complete cleaning of it. There was a lot of black junk on the underside and around the throttle bore. -after reassembly and a the new IAC motor, I took it for a test drive. -Man what a difference. Idle is as steady as a surgens hand, throttle responce is better, and overall ran great. -Now watch, now that I've posted this, I will jinx it, and tomorrow it won't run. -God help me if it doesn't. -Hope the sheds some light on anyone elses problems. -And thanks for everyones help.
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Huggins
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2006
00:19:28
|  RE: Stalling and Low Idle
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Troy, your problem is wiring related, not sensor related... Check the voltage at the tps... The igntion key must be on for these procedures... Put the black meter lead in one of the very outside wire terminals and the red meter lead in the other very outside wire terminal... Should be 5 volts... If more than 5, you've got a short to power somewhere... If less than 5, but greater than .5, you've got some high resistance somewhere... If it checks out to be 0 volts then you've got an open on either your power or ground wire... If it is 0v then take your black meter lead and connect it to the negative battery terminal, then use your red meter lead to back probe the wires on the sensor connector... You should see a positive 5 volts on only 1 wire... I'm pretty sure the ground wire will be a black wire and the hot or 5 volt wire should be a red wire "outside connector wires"... If you get 5 volts on the ground wire then the ground wire to the sensor is open somewhere, because you are measuring a volt drop durring this procedure and not available voltage like you were on the power or 5v side of the sensor... If the ground side is good you can do the volt drop procedure to the power side by putting the red meter lead into the hot wire of the sensor and connecting the black meter lead to the positive side of the battery... If you get 5v here then there is an open on the power side in the wiring... Up to .5v is acceptable for a volt drop through the wiring, but over that and something somewhere is wrong...
If these two wires check ok then check the voltage on the center wire of the connector... It should vary "while moving the throttle through it's full range of movement" from around .5v to 4.9v, but no less than .5v and no more than 4.9v... If it is stuck on 5v then unplug the tps and recheck voltage on the center wire... With the sensor unplugged, the voltage should be 0v... If it's still 5v, then turn the igntion key off and switch your meter over to read ohm's... Now put your black meter lead in the center wire "sensor should still be unplugged" and take your red meter lead and put it into the hot or red wire... Should be OFL or open... If there is continuity then you have a cross short of your signal wire to your power wire... Now repeat the procedure with the ground wire... Since the engine will run I doubt you will find any continuity here, but check it anyway...
Now if everything at the sensor checks out ok then more than likely you've got an open on your signal return "center wire" to the pcm... You will need to hook you tps back up for this procedure... You can check this by using the volt drop method with the key on going from tps connector to pcm connector or by using the ohm method with the ignition key off "for the ohm method the tps will need to be unhooked and the pcm should really be unhooked as well for an accurate reading"... I don't have the pin number or a connector picture for you to look at for the correct pin on the pcm to check, but it should be the same wire color as the middle wire on the tps... More than likely you will need to bite into the wire with an alligator clip to get a correct reading at the pcm due to the fact that they tend to recess the pins in the connector fairly deeply-if your trying to check it with the back probing method... Before unhooking the pcm make sure the ignition key is in the OFF position to elliminate any possibility of power spikes frying the pcm, that is if your going to unhook it to check for power or continuity that way...
If you get more than 5 volts on any of the wires, such as 12 volts, then your shorted to battery positive, which is a really bad thing and the dealership should really have a look at it then...
I hope this long explanation hasn't totally confused you and if you have any experiance with wiring at all it shouldn't be as bad as it looks... Infact if you've got experiance this should be cake work for you...
The best thing I have found to back probe wiring without destroying anything is a paper clip and an alligator clip to hold the paper clip... Watch out while your doing all of these checks so as you don't spread any of the connector pins any more open than they allready are "this is why I like the paper clips", or you will damage the connector...
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Huggins
Dodge Dakota
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5/18/2006
21:42:49
| RE: Stalling and Low Idle
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Troy, just wondering if you ever figured out what your problem was or not? Let me know if I lead you down the wrong path or if you have any questions regarding the procedures above...
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Troy E.
Dodge Dakota
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5/19/2006
08:17:31
| RE: Stalling and Low Idle
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Huggins, I haven't had a chance to look at it. Hopefully tonight and tomorrow. Thanks for the info. I'll let you know how I make out.
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Troy E.
Dodge Dakota
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5/20/2006
09:24:19
| RE: Stalling and Low Idle
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Huggins, I checked the voltage at the tps. With the key in the on position, it measures 5.12 volts. You think I have a short to power somewhere? I have the pin #'s and a picture of connectors. I don't have much experience with wiring, do you have any other suggestions. Thanks.
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Huggins
Dodge Dakota
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5/20/2006
18:46:39
| RE: Stalling and Low Idle
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Is it 5.12 volts at the outside wires or the center wire? If it's the center then yes more than likely you've got a short to power somewhere, however the outside wires should have right around 5 volts on them... The center wire should vary voltage depending on where the throttle is... As you open the throttle it should go up from around .5 or .9 volts to 4. something volts, but never a full 5 volts on the middle wire...
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Troy E.
Dodge Dakota
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5/20/2006
19:26:45
| RE: Stalling and Low Idle
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It was 5.12 on the outside and .60 on the middle...
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Huggins
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2006
00:53:44
| RE: Stalling and Low Idle
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To start with, sorry for not getting back with you sooner... I've been out all afternoon pretty much... In fact I just got back in and it's 12:30...
So the tps's middle wire registers .6 volts, ok, go to the pin at the pcm and check for the same voltage... Should be just about identical... I'm pretty sure that "high input" means that you have an open somewhere in the wire, infact now that I think of it, I know that it means that... In other words the full 5 volts is having to be dropped internally across the resistor inside the pcm... It would take me too long to describe how a pcm gets it's input from potentiometer sensor such as this:))
Unfortunately opens are very hard to find unless it is just apparent, such as a cut wire... You could use radio antennas and modulated induced frequency, but you would have to know what exactly your doing, so the alternative is to peel open the wiring loom from the tps to the pcm and take your thumbnail and pull it down the wire... It should kinda drop down into the jacket of the wire where the internal open is... All you have to do now is repair the open with solder and some heat shrink tubing... Make sure to wrap the the two ends of the wire together before soldering...
It's not necessarily always advised, but you could also repair the wire by running a known good wire parallel to the one with the open... You could also replace the entire wire from the tps to the pcm if you wished to do so, which is kinda the same as running one parallel to it only in this instance you would actually be removing the old wire and putting a new one in in it's place... But keep in mind the open can still be at the pcm connector, so back probe the connector to check for voltage... If you get the .6 volts there, turn the ignition off, unplug the pcm, turn the ignition back on and check for the same .6 volts on the male side of the connector... If you still get the .6 volts here, then look for connector spreading or things that would cause electric current flow difficulties such as dirt, rust or any type of corrosion...
Again, sorry for the late response, but I hope this will help...
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Huggins
Dodge Dakota
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5/22/2006
22:54:21
| RE: Stalling and Low Idle
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Message:
Troy, just thought I'd check in to see if you had fixed the problem yet or not... If you need anymore information just let me know and if I don't know, then perhaps someone else on here will be able to help out a little bit better...
After you fix the problem you will have to reset the pcm so it can relearn all of your driving preferences...
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2 HI 4X
Dodge Dakota
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5/31/2006
23:37:22
| RE: Stalling and Low Idle
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Well, I though I had fixed the problem until today. -It did it again on the way home from work, sitting in stopped trafic the truck just died at idle. -The idle seems fine though. it just died. then it died another 3 times after that. -took it out after dinner tonight and checked every wire while the truck was running to see if it was a loose connection or something. -but nothing, then testdrove it for a while and it was fine. I don't know what the deal is. Anyone have any other ideas?
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zzark
*GenII*
6/01/2006
10:06:22
| RE: Stalling and Low Idle
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Splice under the fuse box. ??
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Dan M
Dodge Dakota
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6/01/2006
12:10:27
| RE: Stalling and Low Idle
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It's possible it could be #115 splice as Zzark said.
here's a post on the splice:
http://www.dodgedakota.net/boards/gen/21129.html
Could also be a ground issue. Turn the truck on, let it idle and tap on the PCM with the handle of a screwdriver. If the vehicle cuts out or dies, check ground wires at PCM.
if nothing, happens when you tap the PCM, drop the hood down somewhat hard and if the truck cuts out or dies, you have a grounding issue elsewhere.
- Dan M
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Troy E.
Dodge Dakota
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6/02/2006
12:31:56
| RE: Stalling and Low Idle
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Huggins,
Finally got problem resolved. I had a faulty brake switch. Thanks for all the help.
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radarguy
Dodge Dakota
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6/04/2006
10:37:11
| RE: Stalling and Low Idle
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I had that problem with my 92 Dakota. When it Was cold outside it wouldn't idle. Found that the thermostat was frozen open. When it was cold the engine wouldn't warm up but the choke would. Replaced the thermostat and the problem went away.
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