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fseventy
Dodge Dakota
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4/01/2006
22:52:28
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 Subject: Replaced lots of parts/now runs rough
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I just recently replaced a number of parts, and now the truck will miss at both idle and through all rpm ranges while crusing.
Parts:
cloyes timing chain, removed old tensioner (broken) and did NOT add a new tensioner. (Didn't think tensioner was needed with this set?!)
belly pan gasket
intake gaskets
valve cover gaskets (Fel-Pro metallic looking ones. I used red RTV around the water ports ONLY and the rest of the gasket was dry)
fuel injector O-rings (thin coat of engine oil only)
cleaned IAC (idle solenoid)
sort-of cleaned the throttle body(scrubbed the bores with toothbrush and carb cleaner, but did not clean the ports or blow out w/ compressed air) I resued the old TB gasket, and just put a very thin coat of gasket cement on each side before bolting back on.
new cap and rotor
cleaned and reused old spark plug wires
I've checked most of the hoses for vaccuum leaks, but the engine increases rpm when unplugging hoses?
One huge problem with this engine was sludge. IT has 180,000 miles on it, and the belly pan probably leaked for a long time of that. Sludge in the lifter valley and under the vavle covers was BADDD. I used the shop vac to get most of it out, but I'm wondering now if I managed to push some of the sludge farther down into the engine. I removed the rockers while cleaning out the sludge as well.
The reason I tore down the engine was that it was using coolant (intake gasket leak), but it still idled pretty good and no problems at speed. Plus the fact the timing chain was ratteling pretty bad.
I'm thinking I should pull the plugs and look for signs of coolant on the plugs again.
What else? I really don't want to tear it apart again until I have some ideas as to what may be wrong.
Sorry for the long post, but I'm hoping someone can help. Thanks
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Steven
Dodge Dakota
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4/01/2006
23:41:09
| RE: Replaced lots of parts/now runs rough
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there are over 100 things that could be wrong, if there was a lot of sludge you removed then your valves are probly off on old engines they will wear and the sledge can be holding them together to form a tights seal.
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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4/02/2006
00:33:21
| RE: Replaced lots of parts/now runs rough
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If this is an actualy miss rather thewn vacuum leak, the fact you cleaned the plug wires bothers me. How did you go about cleaning them. Was they wiggled around a good amount. If so you most likely made a graphit or wire break in one or even 2. try pulling the wires one at a time while idleing and see if you have a cylender or 2 that makes no differance . If it doesn't turn out to be a wire but miss doesn't change while doing this, your in the right area to find it
So many problems .... So little time
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zzark
*GenII*
4/02/2006
10:37:54
| RE: Replaced lots of parts/now runs rough
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Wow, you've been busy.
Get new plug wires.
Get 2 cans of Seafoam. Put one in your engine to clean it, and of course change the oil.
Put half a can in the gas tank.
Run the other half through the TB.
Seafoam has instructions on their website.
Then let us know what worked the best.
zzark
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Scott C
Dodge Dakota
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4/02/2006
23:10:51
| RE: Replaced lots of parts/now runs rough
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well the fact that ya did all that work and reused the plug wires but replaced cap and rotor and so on.... new wires should fix your problem and with it having that kinda mileage it wouldnt hurt with going with new wires.... cleaning them well there isnt a need for that... but i dont think you did any harm with what you did as far as your repairs went....
Scott C
Royal Auto
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nummnuts
Dodge Dakota
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4/04/2006
18:17:24
| RE: Replaced lots of parts/now runs rough
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how come ya reused the wires ya cheap bastard!
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fseventy
Dodge Dakota
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4/05/2006
01:40:59
| RE: Replaced lots of parts/now runs rough
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I mentioned I cleaned the wires because sometimes you can pull apart the ends when doing so. I pulled all of the wires back off and I checked the resistance in each wire. They all had a range of 3.5K Ohms to 5K Ohms depending on the length, which was the same (as I can best remember) resistance when I checked the wires a year ago. I don't think it's the wires.
The Check Engine finally came on so I pulled the codes. One code was random misfire in multiple cylinders and the other was misfire in #3 cylinder.
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fseventy
Dodge Dakota
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4/05/2006
01:47:20
| RE: Replaced lots of parts/now runs rough
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I cleaned them because they were covered in dirty, oily, sludge and because when they are clean it is easier to inspect the outer jacket for nicks and cuts.
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fseventy
Dodge Dakota
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4/06/2006
01:08:14
| RE: Replaced lots of parts/now runs rough
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Double checked the firing order tonight and it's OK. Pulled #3 plug wire and the engine ran the same as with it was attached to the plug. Hooked the plug wire to an extra spark plug and grounded the base and it got good clean blue spark. Did the same with #1 for comparision and the spark looked the same.
So I have spark in that cylinder, so it must be a fuel problem, possible vacuume leak in that cylinder, or maybe even coolant is leaking into that cylinder. I'll plull the plug tomorrow when the engine is cold and see what it looks like.
Since I pulled all of the injectors out, maybe I boogered up #3 somehow. How do I test just that injector? Should I pull the whole fuel rail off with the injectors attached and crank the engine to see what the spray pattern looks like? Besides the huge fire hazard that poses, should I be able to see anything helpful?
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Jesus
Dodge Dakota
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4/06/2006
08:18:11
| RE: Replaced lots of parts/now runs rough
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"Besides the huge fire hazard that poses, should I be able to see anything helpful?"
Immediately after you ignite and perish, you will see a brilliant white light. Go toward the light.
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fseventy
Dodge Dakota
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4/07/2006
01:13:25
| RE: Replaced lots of parts/now runs rough
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Sometimes I think I am ready to go be with Jesus, and leave all this junk behind....
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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4/07/2006
01:53:57
| RE: Replaced lots of parts/now runs rough
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You said you PULLED the wire and hooked it to an EXTRA PLUG. So I am assuming you never pulled that plug back out to be sure it was firing right? Also try running the engine at idle in total darkness to see if your wires are cross firing. Also in the dark, run your fingers slowly down the wires end for end. If your fingers glow blue, there shot. Unless they are really bad you will not get shocked.
So many problems .... So little time
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fseventy
Dodge Dakota
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4/08/2006
01:41:12
| RE: Replaced lots of parts/now runs rough
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I found a TSB (NO: 18-48-98)about Cross Fire/Ignition Wire Induction.
It basically states to cover the coil wire in convoluted tubing an all exposed areas that are not in wire retainers, and keep the coil wire a minimum of 1" away for other ignition wires.
I'm going to give it a try, my coil wire is corrently resting on some of the other ignotion wires.
I recently replaced the wires (MSD) on my 1970 Camaro because I burned one of them. I think I'll swap out the MSD's to the truck to see if there is any difference. There sure is a difference in resistance. The MSD's and the new Taylor wire set on the Camaro are around 500 to 800 Ohms, where the truck wires are around 4,000 ohms!
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fseventy
Dodge Dakota
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4/08/2006
15:25:45
| RE: Replaced lots of parts/now runs rough
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Before I pulled spark plugs, replaced wires, moved coil wire, etc.. I decided to run some SeaFoam down the throttle body and add to the gas tank. I decided to run the SeaFoam 1st, then chase it down with some water from a spray bottle. The water turns to steam in the combustion chamber and helps knock off carbon deposits. If you don't believe me, heat up some kind of junk metal part that is greasy and hit it with some water. The grease will fly right off. You want to make sure to spray water carefully at a high idle ( I did at about 2200 rpm) and listen to the engine. It should run a little rough but not horribly rough and make knocking sounds. YOU DO NO WANT TO ADD LOTS OF WATER AT ONE TIME OR YOU MIGHT HYDRAULIC A PISTON. Water is NOT compressible and you will damage a piston or bend a rod if you put too much water in. You will also want to chase the water with carb/throttle body cleaner just to make sure all traces of water are gone so as to not corrode any air passeges in the throttle body/carb.
After the SeaFoam and water cleaning, it idles smooth and no missing. I hope this was the fix!
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Josh P.
Dodge Dakota
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4/10/2006
01:17:55
| RE: Replaced lots of parts/now runs rough
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Fseventy,
Did you send it down the Throttle body or a vacuum line? If I read it right, sounds like you just poured it down the throttle body. Now that you mention it, I wouldn't mind a smoother idle. ;)
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fseventy
Dodge Dakota
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4/10/2006
01:53:44
| RE: Replaced lots of parts/now runs rough
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NOT POURED, but SPRAYED from a generic spray bottle (both SeaFoam and with water) If you pour it, you risk getting too much in at once.
Otherwise, yes I sprayed it down the throttle body with the throttle wedged open at the throttle stop by a small flathead screwdriver. M engine has so many miles on it, I never risk taking it past 3000 rpm, but I guess you rev it that high while you are adding water. Otherwise, 2000 to 2500 rpm seems to work well.
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fseventy
Dodge Dakota
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4/10/2006
01:59:17
| RE: Replaced lots of parts/now runs rough
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Just for giggles, I made a new coil wire for the Dak out of a leftover section from the 8mm Taylor Sprio Pro wires on my Camaro, covered it in convoluted tubing like the TSB says to, and routed it away from the other plug wires. I compared resistance of the old coil wire and the Taylor wire. Old wire 5,700 Ohms, new Taylor wire 850 Ohms!
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Josh P.
Dodge Dakota
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4/10/2006
03:22:37
|  RE: Replaced lots of parts/now runs rough
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"Otherwise, yes I sprayed it down the throttle body with the throttle wedged open at the throttle stop by a small flathead screwdriver. M engine has so many miles on it, I never risk taking it past 3000 rpm, but I guess you rev it that high while you are adding water. Otherwise, 2000 to 2500 rpm seems to work well." fseventy
LOL. Mines got just over 200K. And me neither, I have never take it over 3grand. If I do its rare and not much over.
Cool though, I got one can of SeaFoam laying around and was hesistant to just throw it down the throttle body like it says. At least I know someone else has tried it. Oh, and the bottle says to use 1/3, you used how much? with a spray bottle spraying mist that could take awhile. Did you really sit there for some time and empty the whole thing with a spray bottle. if you did, you're thorough. I'll be happy to try it and let you know.
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fseventy
Dodge Dakota
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4/12/2006
01:06:46
| RE: Replaced lots of parts/now runs rough
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I sprayed about 1/3 of can down the TB, and put the rest in the gas with only about 1/4 of a tank. I was hoping to have a more concentrated mix to clean the fuel injectors.
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fseventy
Dodge Dakota
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4/14/2006
01:40:16
| RE: Replaced lots of parts/now runs rough
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Well, the truck is running better, but still not quite right. After doing more research, my guess is that the SeaFoam cleaned up the fuel injectors a little, but I'm betting that they are the problem of the rough idle and missing at light load when crusing. I pulled the injectors out and sent them off to be professionally cleaned. Hope this is the fix! My guess is that I dislodged some junk into them when I removed them to change the intake gaskets.
I'll post another update when the injectors come back.
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zzark
*GenII*
4/14/2006
11:25:41
| RE: Replaced lots of parts/now runs rough
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Very good.
What's the charge to clean the injectors?
zzark
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