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James F.
Dodge Dakota
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9/01/2005
02:59:35
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 Subject: Harmonic Balancer Broke.
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Last Weds I climbed in my 99 Dakota 3.9 v6 turned the ignition and heard a noise against the fan. Got out and looked under the hood and the belt was off. Glanced over the front every thing looked okay and put it back on. Turned the ignition heard another noise that made a little pop. Belt was off again and wraped around drive shaft and AC. I noticed that the water pump pulley was wobley so I thought that was my problem. I discovered a wobley drive pulley and harmonic balancer. The balancer was broke where it goes around the shaft. A piece a little bigger than an inch in diameter. Replaced the harmonic balancer or vibration damper and it would not crank. Sounded like it was out of timing. No compression so pulled the cover and timing chain was broke. Was working on replacing but now the crank shaft doesnt turn very far. Found all the broken pieces but something now is is binding the crank shaft. By the way truck was running fine the previous day. Also the shaft was turning freely until we were ready to line up our new gears and put the chain on. Any ideas what could be wrong. I feel defeated. I didn't have the funds for major repair work. I need to get vehicle back in operation. Please flood me with you ideas guys. Thanks in advance!
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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9/01/2005
08:36:09
| RE: Harmonic Balancer Broke.
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Boy, am I glad I had my harmonic balancer replaced when it had an 1/8" wobble! I didn't think about it breaking. Had the timing chain and water pump, and hoses done, too.
Can you turn the crank with a wrench on the bolt? Probably will be OK after you replace the parts listed above.
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Peter
Dodge Dakota
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9/01/2005
13:50:22
| RE: Harmonic Balancer Broke.
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Does anyone know how much clearance there is between the valves and pistons. If the crank was turning and the cam wasn't, what kind of damage could that have caused and how do you line the crank and cam up after that?
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
9/01/2005
13:58:47
| RE: Harmonic Balancer Broke.
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the valves wont hit the pistons.. like most 2 valve motors, it's a non-interference design, meaning the valves will never touch the pistons unless you break a valve, a keeper or possibly a valve spring.
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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9/01/2005
14:20:37
| RE: Harmonic Balancer Broke.
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"like most 2 valve motors, it's a non-interference design, meaning the valves will never touch the pistons unless you break a valve, a keeper or possibly a valve spring."
Like most 2 valve motors? Huh? There are LOTS of 2-valve interference motors, one of them being my wife's 2.2L Camry; the 2.4L Chrysler engine; the old 2.3L Quad-4 from Pontiac.
It is something to consider.
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jake
Dodge Dakota
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9/01/2005
15:53:05
| RE: Harmonic Balancer Broke.
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bet ya the valves and the pistons are meeting up.... intense is aparently clueless
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hum
Dodge Dakota
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9/01/2005
16:45:51
| RE: Harmonic Balancer Broke.
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Recheck the cam/crank timing it sounds like it is off and the valves are hitting. since it was ok before you put the timing chain on that would seem likely. Did you read the "replacing timing chain" on the how to section of this form/
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James F.
Dodge Dakota
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9/01/2005
19:23:14
| RE: Harmonic Balancer Broke.
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We tried to follow the directions. We were trying to line up the cam and crank to tdc before we put the chain on. Could the distributor get out of wack with this kinda of thing. We haven't pulled the distributor out but when turning cam to line up with number one the mark on the cam is at 9o'clock position. So the valves and pistons can be meeting.
Thanks!
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Joe M.
Dodge Dakota
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9/01/2005
22:16:29
|  RE: Harmonic Balancer Broke.
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if you screw the cam timing up
yes most def. you can make valve to piston contact
(cam turning out of time, opening valves
compression stroke & bam)
if you did you could be looking @
bent valves (allmost 100% positive)
and also could have broken guides
i just went through something similar
on my Harley (motor is pretty worked up)
but to cut it short
i run V-thunder Hy-Rev lifters (by comp cams)
they are a hyd. roller that after 6000 rpm's
have a travel limit, well one went south
& went into a full solid action and hung an intake open at 6 grand,
bent the valve and busted guide.
and so goes life! LOL
ok so who's got the cold beers???
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James F.
Dodge Dakota
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9/02/2005
01:07:24
| RE: Harmonic Balancer Broke.
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Just to see if I am following everyone here. If the cam and crank are out of wack that could be why the crank will turn until the piston and valve collide or make contact. Can I correct this. Seems most of the directions are comming from chain replacement and leaving the cam gear and crank in the same position as you removed them. A guy at the shop wanted over 900.00 dollars to do the job. He said there was no compression and that timing chane was probably broken. I couldn't afford his price and decided to do the job myself since the parts were just over 100.00 dollars including balancer.
So what I am saying is that with no chain the crank was rotated by me and I assume by the shop. It turned freely and easily until we removed the old sprockets put the new ones on and tried to line cam 6 0'clock and crank at 12. with the marks on the sprockets. This is the point where the crank turned some until it hit whatever.
Okay! can some give a 1 2 3 step to see if this corrects my problem or is it more likely that some major damage has occurred. I am good at changing parts but this timing stuff is frustrating the heck out of me. Guess what I was delivering pizza for income but now I am going broke with no auto. I appreciate all the post helping me with this.
One other thing. What would have caused the harmonic balancer to break in the first place. Engine has always fired up on a second and no noticeable noises to warn me of problems.
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why?
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2005
14:12:23
| RE: Harmonic Balancer Broke.
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what I would like to know is how the timing chain and harmonic balancer broke at the same time, then the serpintine belt, according to you got wrapped up in the drive shaft, which is at the opposite end if the engine behind the transmission? something smells a bit fishy with this story.
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James F.
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2005
20:25:45
| RE: Harmonic Balancer Broke.
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Sorry I meant crank shaft.
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
9/04/2005
21:07:05
| RE: Harmonic Balancer Broke.
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bob,
i know ya like to argue with anything i ever say or suggest, but i did say most, not all.
the 3.9 is non interference...
i'll give suggestions, tips or advice, but i'm not gonna argue.
something is seriously wrong with the motor other than a valve.. it would take some work to break a harmonic balancer, not a valve or timing chain. If a harmonic balancer broke, more than likely something is out of balance now... such as a crankshaft. If the 3.9 was an interference motor, a valve or pushrod would bend. If you dropped a valve, it would gut a piston.. but the crankshaft would still rotate.
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93dak4x4
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2005
11:04:19
| RE: Harmonic Balancer Broke.
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I put some stock into what IntenseDak said. It would take alot to make a motor stick like that which leads me to believe something else happened. Maybe you threw a rod during the process which bent the crank? But something is causing your crank to bind as you turn it and something had to missalign your timing chain for it to snap along with to break you balencer. If I were you I would pull out the motor and start Dissassembly. These motors are actually quite simple and can be rebuilt in a week or so depending on your amount of machining that needs to be done, this isnt going to be a $100 dollar fix.
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James F.
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2005
14:54:51
| RE: Harmonic Balancer Broke.
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Thanks! 93dak4x4 and others. Thats the kind of answer I was looking for. Looks like its going to the shop.
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Dennis
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2005
22:20:58
| RE: Harmonic Balancer Broke.
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I'll argue the 'non-interference' tag. My 92 Dakota 3.9 ate a timing gear due to the oiling tab being ground down. When it went out of time, it bent about 2/3 of the valves and/or the pushrods. To me, that's NOT 'non-interference' and it's not the first 3.9 I've heard of doing that. Luckily, the valves took the brunt and not the pistons, but they did have nice little clean spots on them where the valves hit.
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