| From | Message |
Peter
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/11/2005
23:04:21
|
 Subject: Crank Sensor mod to Retard timing??
IP: Logged
Message:
I have a 97, 3.9, auto. I checked my timing and I know it
is off by 5 or 6 degrees. I am thinking it is advanced
because I am getting a pinging. Is it possible to retard
the timing by moving the crank sensor the opposite
direction than the normal mod calls for. I know this is a
short term fix until I can find out what is causing the
advanced timing. I've changed to the Champion Truck
plugs, new wires, new cap and rotor. Next week i think
I'll be switching out the coolant temperature sensor, see
about a new 180 thermostat, and switch to the famous
autolites. Any other suggestions would be helpful?
Also, has anyone ever heard of the distributor bushing
and gear going bad in a 97, I know the 92's were
notorious for it, but haven't heard anything past that.
When i changed my cap and rotor, there was a lot of
buildup on the points inside the cap, not sure if it is
caused by arcing or what. Thanks in advance.
|
racerX
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/12/2005
02:51:31
| RE: Crank Sensor mod to Retard timing??
IP: Logged
Message:
yes, going in the opposite direction will retard timing a few degrees, this is mentioned in the krc article on timing advance
|
N56629
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/12/2005
06:39:37
| RE: Crank Sensor mod to Retard timing??
IP: Logged
Message:
You say that you "know" it's off 5-6 degrees and then only say that you "think" it's advanced. That's a bit puzzling. It would be very unusual for one of these engines to be off that far. The cause of the pinging is likely elsewhere. You may actually be getting detonation, often mistaken for pinging, due to carbon buildup in the heads. If you always go to same gas station to fill up try a different one. The 180 stat may help but it's more of a band-aid for an unknown problem.
|
daddio
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/12/2005
08:45:52
| RE: Crank Sensor mod to Retard timing??
IP: Logged
Message:
try something to clean the combustion chambers such as seafoam. a colder range plug should help too. you don't want to retard timing unless absolutely necessary. you will kill power & mileage.
|
xmr
GenIII
7/12/2005
09:21:43
| RE: Crank Sensor mod to Retard timing??
IP: Logged
Message:
If your timing is really off it must be due to a bad sensor giving the computer bad info. I would check the incoming air temp. sensor and see if it is working correctly. Also the crank positon sensor bolts could be loose. there are others but those are a good place to start.
'98 cc auto /Home brew cold air with K&N,Dynomax, Superchip Tuner, 1.7 RR,, F&B tb. NAPA cap and rotor, 3923 plugs,tps mod,relocated & switchable iat, 180 t'stat, Crankshaft sensor mod.,PVI,Ported and Polished manifold, bosch injectors,Black Magic Elec Fan, msd wiires
|
Peter
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/12/2005
11:52:58
| RE: Crank Sensor mod to Retard timing??
IP: Logged
Message:
Thanks for all of the info.
I checked the timing with one of those adjustable lights from a friend and I was able to adjust the light to know it was off 5 degrees, but I didn't know which way I was adjusting it. From the front of the engine, the timing mark on the harmonic balancer was to the left (or ontop) of the TDC mark without the timing light adjusted.
I'll attempt the seafoam to see if it helps. I was thinking about getting that engine flush done by Pep-Boys, so now might be a great time.
I have also cleaned off the IAC, it had a lot of buildup on it.
Thanks again.
|
daddio
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/12/2005
12:12:28
| RE: Crank Sensor mod to Retard timing??
IP: Logged
Message:
i think that engine flush your talking about is for inside the block only and does not clean the combustion chambers.
|
bigdave
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/12/2005
12:24:59
| RE: Crank Sensor mod to Retard timing??
IP: Logged
Message:
Have you checked your timing chain? Yes dist. gear and bushings do wear out, just did mine at 140,000 and they were bad, gear was missing a tooth and bushing was sloppy.
|
Gregg
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/12/2005
13:05:47
| RE: Crank Sensor mod to Retard timing??
IP: Logged
Message:
Yeah, thanks to this site I spanked my pinging problem on a,new to me,'99 DAK. Don't tweak the timing until you install the 180 T-stat which tricks the brain into delivering a slightly richer mixture to warm up the still "cold" engine. With a half tank-o-fuel dump a can of Seafoam in and drive it at higher RPM ranges for a couple days. Use mid-grade octane. You could do the recommended 1/3 can down the throttle body at idle. On the next fill up add another full can. Keep her from lugging or shut off overdrive for several miles. Don't add to Seafoam to oil unless you're right on top on an oil change.
I still use mid grade fuel for trailor hauling but a nasty ping issue went away doing above. Sounded like a troll beating a trash can lid under load.
|
gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/12/2005
13:56:37
| RE: Crank Sensor mod to Retard timing??
IP: Logged
Message:
The pinging may be due to a leaking intake belly pan gasket. Your timing issue may not be as it appears. It could be that the elastomer ring in your harmonic damper is failing, and the outer ring has slipped some. Thus, the timing marks would be off, and make it read incorrectly. The "carbon-up" theory is also a very valid possibility. The worn distributor bushing wouldn't cause a timing advance so much as it would allow the shaft to wobble, which would cause the engine to run rough. Seafoam is an excellent overall cleaner, inside the crankcase or in the combustion chambers. It's also the only over-th-counter product I know of that can actually dissolve the hard deposits that build up in the fuel injectors. Lesser products only dissolve the soft deposits. Just don't go making changes til you have addressed these issues.
|
daddio
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/12/2005
13:59:38
| RE: Crank Sensor mod to Retard timing??
IP: Logged
Message:
just a thought but, wouldn't a worn dist gear or bushing make the timing jump around and not stay steady? also, a loose timing chain? just a thought.
|
Dan M
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/12/2005
15:46:49
| RE: Crank Sensor mod to Retard timing??
IP: Logged
Message:
pepboys does an engine flush where it cleans out deposits from oil break down. It will help with sticky lifters - do they tick? Also helps with milage by removing the buildup.
Seamfoam is good, i use it at every oil change.
You can also get an air induction cleaning done too, remove deposits there. seafoam will do this, though slower than the cleaning service. Seafoam actually lists on the can how to mix it to use in an induction cleaning machine.
also check your timing chain and tensioner, could be cause of timing off. Didn't the 97's come with tensioner? I didn't see where you checked that.
- Dan M
|
Wadak
GenIII
7/14/2005
01:48:27
| RE: Crank Sensor mod to Retard timing??
IP: Logged
Message:
Peter,
The Plenum gasket on your intake manifold maybe defective. If it is it can cause pinging. If your oil consumption has increased about a quart every thousand miles or more that could be your problem. You will need to remove your air clearer or air hat and look down the Throttle body with a Flash light and check for oil accumulation.
The arcing you describe inside the cap can be the result of going a long time without it being changed. How many miles on your truck? Did you check your timing with a auto scanner or timing light?
All of the above suggestions are good ones, definitely check the cps as XMR mentioned just to eliminate any posibility of it being loose.
92 and 97 Daks both with many mods.
|
Peter
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/15/2005
15:40:10
| RE: Crank Sensor mod to Retard timing??
IP: Logged
Message:
I've looked down the throttle body with a flashlight and I can see some deposits but it didn't look like wet oil. It might have used used only half a quart, if that over 3500 miles.
I used a timing light to check the timing. I didn't know that there were scanners than could check the timing.
It's only really pinging when it gets warm, and on humid mornings it has a pretty rough idle for the first minute or two.
I have a little less than 90K miles.
From what I've heard, the 97 does not have a tensioner, and there might be a slight rattling from that, but I definately notice a lot more noise whenever I use the 87 gas. I've thought of the loose timing chain, but trying to think of everything else before I tear the truck apart. Not really sure how else to check the chain.
I just called the PepBoys near my place in Austin and they said they didn't offer an oil flush that everyone described so I'll call some of the other ones in town.
I'll be checking the CPS tonight to see if it's loose.
Do you just pour the 1/3 of a can of SeaFoam down the throttle body while it's running or should I use the plugged test vaccum port on the side of the manifold. ?
Thanks again everyone.
|
Gregg
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/15/2005
21:00:25
| RE: Crank Sensor mod to Retard timing??
IP: Logged
Message:
Reading too much, as you may have, on this site I started with the easy stuff. Go back and review my post to you recommending T-stat, magic plugs (Autolight), cap/rotor and the Seafoam. Do it! Tuning issues may totally clear. Mine did and they are the same vintage, a '99 at 80K. I did this over a month ago and it's still kicking A$$.
The only mistake I made was not doing a step and then testing. I used the all at once shotgun approch. I changed over to Mobile 1 synth to add more voodoo. Result was mega smooth powerband with stable but drifting idle. I pulled the TB sensor and cleaned it as this site documents and all similar symtoms cleared.
I basically sprayed (mist bottle) the seafoam into the open TB at idle. I had to grab the throttle a couple times to keep her running but it works. I made up this method, thought pouring would be a bit much to control.
I think the lower temp stat making a richer mixture with a cooler engine made 40% of the improvement. They run these motor too hot and way lean to exceed emmission laws. The ignition parts combined are proven to reduce pinging and add power. The Seaform cleans the injectors, fuel system and de-carbonizes any build up. Buy two or three cans adding one with each fill-up.
|
Flippy
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/15/2005
21:21:34
| RE: Crank Sensor mod to Retard timing??
IP: Logged
Message:
I say sell the truck and spend all of the money from it on crack then you will not have that problem will you cracky
|
93dak4x4
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/16/2005
10:21:11
| RE: Crank Sensor mod to Retard timing??
IP: Logged
Message:
if you really want the seafoam to do an extremely good job you want to concentrate it as much as possible. wait til you have a quarter tank or less and pour in a full bottle or more. (you could run straight on this stuff, i have done it with small motors)Then drive the truck until your low fuel light turns on. I also slowly poured an entire bottle down the throttle body while the truck idles...slowly is key otherwise it will kill the truck. i also added about 2 ounces to my oil. with all this done i saw a 4 mpg city increase and a 2 mpg highway increase.
|
Peter
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/19/2005
10:55:54
| RE: Crank Sensor mod to Retard timing??
IP: Logged
Message:
Just an update. I did the sea foam thing, which didn't help much, but a good cleaning can't hurt. I changed out the 180 thermostat which helped a little, and it feels like a get a quicker response with engine running a little cooler, but it didn't help with the noise. I changed out my plenum gasket and that didn't do a thing, except I know I won't be having that problem for awhile since I used the thicker belly pan. I was still getting a rattling/pinging and finally changed out the timing chain to a double roller, and added a tensioner (it was definately a tight fit, but it went on). I had a lot of slack in my old chain. That solved the rattling. I haven't had a chance to try the normal octane gas yet, but I'm hoping I won't be getting any pinging from it. I also haven't had a chance to check the timing yet to compare a before and after. Just as a side note, the camshaft pulley that I received from Cloyes had the timing mark on the top of the pulley at TDC. I thought I screwed something up but I compared it to the old pulley and the mark compared to the keyway was just opposite. It took me all day to change it out, but I was taking my time and by myself and it included 2 trips to get parts/tools. I probably could have done it in 4 hours with someone else though.
|
Slim
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/19/2005
13:21:56
| RE: Crank Sensor mod to Retard timing??
IP: Logged
Message:
I had a rattle in my chain when I got it. so then when I go to change it out...lookie what I find...
the asss had let it go for so long that the rattling had cracked the timing chain cover all to hell.
|
J and J Auto
GenII
10/19/2005
17:44:42
| RE: Crank Sensor mod to Retard timing??
IP: Logged
Message:
Your base timming at idle should be around 10
degree's before top dead center
pull the fuel pump relay and have someone crank
it over and check with timming light just cranking
this will give the true base timming
My 95 4x4 I moved the sensor and increaased it
to 15 degree's and she runs great 22 to 25mpg
on the high way 22 just running around
1995 4X4 short box sport
Mopar performance computer
running 183 185 in town no fan
injector sync at +6
1.7 harland sharp rollers
48mm F&B
K&N Ram Air hood
ported intake and heads light port
JBA carsound dynomax super turbo system with a
resonator tip
42RH TCI Trans Scat shift kit 3.91 sure grip
Larry
J&J Auto
|
Peter
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/20/2005
17:17:49
| RE: Crank Sensor mod to Retard timing??
IP: Logged
Message:
Larry, are you talking about the CPS sensor?
|
| | P 1 Next Page>> |
