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Fox
Dodge Dakota
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11/03/2004
23:27:30
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 Subject: Stock no more
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Hey guys, Im new here and I just had some questions. I just bought a 1998 Dakota 4x4 with a 5 speed, bone stock, and Im totally up for giving it a little "boost". Im kinda low on funds at the moment (having just bought it) so Ive been looking around for some of the most cost effective bolt ons, drivetrain wise, that wouldnt break the bank. Cold air intakes, new throttle bodies, a throttle body spacer, computer upgrades, things of that nature. I was reading around on the board and found tons of topics about throttle bodies, and they answered alot of questions, but then just raised some more. For instance: What is the stock size of the TB on my truck? (Its a 3.9) I think its 50mm, but correct me if Im wrong. Also, does anybody know the stock CFM's of it? Ive found lots of performance TB's around, but they all are smaller (unless Im wrong about the 50mm stock size). And then the Fastman I heard about, is only 46mm? What am I missing? Then also, I saw that a v8 TB could be directly mounted onto the 3.9 intake with only the cable being modified. If this is true, why wouldnt you just go with a v8 Fastman? Is it too much flow or what? Also, has anybody tried a TB spacer? Ive heard really great things about them, but cant find a real review or anything. Ive also been looking at a few different cold air intakes, and I saw that MAC intakes claim they give at least a 10% increase in gas mileage (yeah...right). Does anybody have one of these? Or can somebody point me in the right direction of a good one? K&N are good obviously, and Ive heard lots of good coming from http://www.intenseperformance.com/ and some Airaid stuff, but Ive got nothing to compare it to. As for computer modification, Ive got no ideas. Not looking too much in that direction. New headers and maybe exhaust could come maybe in the spring, but not anytime soon. Any help would be greatly apprectiated, thanks alot guys. Cya
-Fox
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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11/04/2004
09:05:42
|  RE: Stock no more
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as far as tb's go, the 3.9 came with (from the factory) either 42, 44, 46mm. if your lucky you got the 46mm. i modded my stock tb, helpd a little then i got a v8 tb. much better. all you have to do with the v8 tb is get a throttle cable for a dak with a v8.
as far as cold air, all i did was take the funky little horn out of the stock airbox and opened up the hole on the air box to about 6" in diameter. way cheaper than a cold air intake and IMO just as effective. search for the CPS(crank position sensor) mod on this site. works good.
exhaust manifolds form a '92 or '93 3.9 are supposed to flow better than any other stock manifolds. and you also may want to look @ 1.7 ratio RR's(roller rockers). there are a few more ideas keep searchin' and have fun with it.
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Fox
Dodge Dakota
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11/04/2004
17:22:23
| RE: Stock no more
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Wow thanks alot. Is there a way to tell what TB Ive got other than measure it? Like is it in the vin? And how do you measure it? Is it just diameter? And you mentioned those manifolds I assume cause theyre alot cheaper than new headers? Oh, and do you know anything about PCM modification? Im not really even sure what it does, or what a PCM is :/. Again, thanks alot.
-Fox
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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11/04/2004
17:33:37
| RE: Stock no more
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not sure if mopar offers a perf pcm for your truck or not. try www.socaldakota.com. sam is the owner(and a member here) and real easy to deal with. i bought my crower 1.7 rr's from him. but i think i may be selling them. never got a chance to install them.
if you want to look for those '92 to 93 exhaust man's check out www.car-part.com. uses salvage yards all over the country. check it out.
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Fox
Dodge Dakota
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11/04/2004
17:44:53
| RE: Stock no more
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Cool, how much did your rr's cost if you dont mind me asking. What will they do for my truck anyway? And why are you selling them? Yeah theres a scrap yard around here too Ill take a look at but Ill be sure to check there too. I gotta check around for a damn door too...I mashed my passenger door. Not too bad, but theres a good size dent. I backed into a fence post (DAMNIT!!) Would a door from a 97 or 99 fit my truck? Any ideas? I found the CPS mod and that looks pretty cool, and not "too" hard to do, and the best part is, its cheap :P. Does it have any downsides? Like am I going to need to use 93 octane?
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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11/04/2004
17:56:08
| RE: Stock no more
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97 to 04 are all Gen III bodies. they will interchange. i paid about 300 bucks for those RR's. they are roller tipped rocker arms. they open and close the valves. stock ones are 1.6:1 ratio. the ones i bought are 1.7:1 ratio so they lift the valves open a little more which makes the engine act like it has a little higher lift cam in it. i am thinking about selling them because i have a new project and could spend the money on that. a'78 buick skylark 2dr. had 1 22 yrs ago and my wive made me sell it. so she bought me another one last week for my birthday. so that's gonna be my "new" baby.
sorry for ramblin'
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Fox
Dodge Dakota
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11/04/2004
18:27:29
| RE: Stock no more
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Wow thats great. Kinda up there on the rr's...they might come later. Did you notice a real boost? I read this in another thread somwhere
"I have the flowmetrics 48mm TB, and I think it was the single best mod I have made. Installation is very easy, just read and follow the supplied directions if you decide to get one. It took about 2 hours, including fabricating the S bolt and modifying the air-hat."
I also read somewhere that to get the full benefit from a v8 TB you would need to open up the intake manifold...is that really necessary? Or just for the BEST possible performance? And did that guy have to modify stuff because of the type/brand of TB hes using (the flowmetrics thing) or is that with all v8 tbs?
And good luck on the lark :)
-Fox
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Fox
Dodge Dakota
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11/04/2004
18:47:01
| RE: Stock no more
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And whats the difference between using an aftermarket v6 TB and a stock v8 TB?
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Joe
Dodge Dakota
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11/05/2004
00:57:47
| RE: Stock no more
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well i think i noticed the biggest differance from my electric fan it took quite a bit of drag off the engine and it increased alittle bit on mpg i got a tb spacer to u cant really notice any differance on speed but they add a good 1 or 2 mpg same with the k@n cold air intake didnt notice much perfomance but it helped with gas milage the 5.2 kit for cold air intake will fit on ur 3.9. i got a flowmaster 50 series its got a nice sound to it and it helped with mpg. to tell u the truth all these mods i have really dont help with my performance to much. it helped alittle but nothing to noticeable. im gonna try dual exhaust with some gibsen headers next
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Fox
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2004
00:31:30
| RE: Stock no more
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Are the stock exhaust manifolds off a 96 as good as a 92-93? Are they any better than my 98? Cause I can get both for $30 at a local scrap yard. Thanks.
-Fox
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2004
09:11:38
| RE: Stock no more
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from what i've read on this site, only the '92-'93 stock exhaust manifolds flowed better than the other years. so you probably won't gain anything. see if you can find a V8 TB in that boneyard. that would help. then put in a free flowing muffler. i bought a cheapo ($19.00) Cherry Bomb Turbo muff from JC Whitney. it works for me.
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greyDAK
Dodge Dakota
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11/11/2004
09:46:39
| RE: Stock no more
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Daddio, I find your thinking to be very cool indeed. You do the things that feel best for you and it sounds like you really have it working. I congratulate you on your method and like to think I follow it myself. I do the "mods" on my Dak not to spend money, but to enjoy to process of doing the project and enjoying the results. Too often the bolt on doo-dads are flashy pieces meant to impress onlookers with little or no difference to the performance or economy of the vehicle. I like to find some part that isnt necessarily meant to fit and spend the time to see if I can make it fit and work properly. Case in point was the V8 throttle body. I read many the different threads on this site (very informative too, by the way) and bought a used one from a junk yard. I spent a few hours coming up with a simple, yet effective, solution to having to buy a new throttle cable. Since I ported and polished the V6 TB, and had ruined the heads off two of the torx screws that hold the butterfly valves in place (who's idea was torx anyway?) I simply welded one of these screws in the appropriate position and slid the V6 cable on to it. It snapped into place as if it belonged there. I have been running with it for over six months now (and giving it hard when necessary - thats fun) with no ill effects whatsoever. The feeling of accomplishment when you can stand back and call yourself a MacGuiver is reward in itself. Nope, spending money just to spend money is no fun at all.
To everyone: enjoy your Dak, I know I love mine.
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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11/11/2004
11:27:53
| RE: Stock no more
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thanks greydak! i try to get as many opinions on mods as i can. i figure that way, i can make a more informed decision as to which way i want to go. i do not want nor can afford to just throw money at my truck and see what happens. that's why i just decided to modify my stock airbox instead of paying $300 for an FIPK that is gonna ad what? 2 hp? i fact, it's not really about the money. i have worked under the hoods of many vehicles over the years just for the pleasure of accomplishing something with my own 2 hands.
individualism, it's what rodding is all about. just think what it would be like if everyone drove camaro's & msutangs? YUK! that's why i am starting a project with a '78 buick skylark. like kowalski's sig: "Lead, Follow or get outta the way".
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greDAK
Dodge Dakota
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11/11/2004
13:55:31
|  RE: Stock no more
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I hear ya. I sold my 1937 Pontiac 2 door sedan in the spring. I had it for 5 years, and had raised it from the back 40 (sitting in the mud, no wheels, green on the north side and cows were using it to scratch themselves on it). I did a major body off rebuild to a rod, trying not to spend too much on it (mostly on tools). New front clip, new rear end, boxed frame, new brakes and suspension (when I say new, I mean used stuff from various doner cars). The body I banged and welded till it was in pretty good shape, and doused it with a thick coat of primer to be block sanded. I never did get a chance to do the interior, as the house needed a new roof and the car was the funds source. All in all, I learned more about cars on that project than on anything else I did. All the welding, fabricating, painting, cleaning and problem solving was me, doing like you, asking a lot of questions and getting a lot of opinions before committing to anything.
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greDAK
Dodge Dakota
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11/11/2004
13:57:17
| RE: Stock no more
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Gone, but not forgotten
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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11/11/2004
15:10:46
| RE: Stock no more
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"Since I ported and polished the V6 TB, and had ruined the heads off two of the torx screws that hold the butterfly valves in place (who's idea was torx anyway?)"
There's nothing wrong with the torx design. It offers nearly twice as much surface area as a philips head. You most likely had problems because the screws are swagged on the otherside. After you initially loosen them, rotate them back and forth gradually working them all the way out. Sometimes a lubricant helps to reduce the friction.
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greyDak
Dodge Dakota
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11/11/2004
15:44:38
|  RE: Stock no more
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N56629, I did what you suggested when I took them apart (the same deal for the butterfly valve on carbuerators as well, which I have done many times in the past), the trouble was the cheap t-25 screwdriver I was using. I poke fun at Torx only because in Canada we have the Robertson (which is a square tip) invented about a 1/2 century ago by a Canadian. Apparently due to patents etc. the Torx was a response to that. I agree that its by far better than Philips in that it holds the tip better, but the Robertson wont strip like either of them (actually will shear the head off before it strips in many cases).
Dont mind my sense of humour, I have nothing against Torx in any shape or form (and if I did, I'd be screwed (pun intended) since virtually all things automotive are Torx).
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