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00:09:46 - 12/20/2024
V6 Dakotas
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Watkinstick
Dodge Dakota
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10/18/2004
14:21:21
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 Subject: ??'s about porting Intake
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Message:
I am planning on doing a little port job on my intake manifold. I am going to gasket match, radius the injector bosses, and cut down the runners about an inch and a half.
My questions are:
will I be lossing any low end with cutting the runners down that far or will it be ok?
and how hard would it be to go ahead and try to port match rather than just gasket match?
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
10/18/2004
14:47:18
| RE: ??'s about porting Intake
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i've cut about 2-2.5" and didnt feel in loss in low end...
but your butt dyno might not measure it the same as mine :D
6.6 Lt. Big Block, 727 TF shift kit, 452 heads, edelbrock 750 cfm, .513/.513 284/300 crower cam, comp cams springs, comp cams pushrods, 1.5 roller rockers, dp intake, mopar ignition, mopar windage tray, dual exhaust w/ 40 series flowmasters, 4.10 gears, coilover drag suspension, approx, 3500 lbs
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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10/18/2004
22:47:36
| RE: ??'s about porting Intake
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"cut down the runners about an inch and a half."
Since you are not likely to exceed 5500 rpm and you are using a stock cam, why would you want to shorten your runners. You notice that Intense is running about 35 degrees more intake duration than you are. He would probably benefit from the M1, but not sure what the runner length is.
The stock manifold has a major runner length of 18" and a minor length of 13.5". I'll let some math wiz figure the mean average. :-)
"I am going to gasket match"
Same here. Why? I thought runners tapered for a reason. Seems to me that you would be losing velocity at a critical point.
I'll try to dig up some formulas for runner length later.
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Gears
Dodge Dakota
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10/19/2004
17:48:13
| RE: ??'s about porting Intake
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hey Intense,
I've got an older intake to port, (gasket match) for my '00 3.9L. Do I need to cut out the divider in the older one? My '00 doesn't have one. If so what tools do you recomend for divider removal? My dremal :-( My 4 1/2 grinder won't fit in there.
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J and J Auto
GenII
10/19/2004
18:09:47
| RE: ??'s about porting Intake
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The runners on the V6 are aprox 16" and will give
a burst in flow around 1400 to 1600 rpm.
Shortening them to 14" will raise this to around
2000 to 2200 rpm and will be very noticeable
increase in perf around 15hp from 2200 to 2500 on
up and will not effect low end at all.
going to 12" you will lose a little low end and
raise the burst even higher 2500 to 3000 rpm this
would be for a engine with a cam and ported heads
running higher rpm to make hp.
The gaskit match will help the low end mid and
top end flow and shortining the runners 1 1/2
will put the burst around 1800 to 2000 rpm with
around a 10 hp gain very noticeable improvement
For the guy who said intense has more duration
look closer he is running a 400 B Block motor not
a V6
Larry
J&J Auto
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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10/19/2004
21:50:56
| RE: ??'s about porting Intake
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"For the guy who said intense has more duration look closer he is running a 400 B Block motor not a V6"
I think that guy was comparing the stock 5.2 cam with 250 degrees duration to Intense's 284 degrees duration. But, then again, the V6 also has 250/264.
Of course you knew that, right?
The only difference between the V6 and V8 is that you might want max torque to come in at a higher rpm, but then I believe that you will lose out on gaining horsepower at max rpm.
"Burst" is a technical term that I'm not familiar with. Would that correspond to one of the four pressure waves? If so, which one? The reason I ask, is that if you know which one, you can calculate when it will arrive.
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rdkc01
Dodge Dakota
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10/20/2004
08:02:26
| RE: ??'s about porting Intake
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Lary I am in the middle of several mods this very min.on my V6 1997 Dakota W/ 89K miles. They are as follows crower 1.7 roller rockers,black magic 150 elec fan,msd6A ignition w/autolite AP3923 plugs gaped @.060,New water pump and hoses,180 deg T stat,new pro gear dbl.roller timing chain and gear set,hughes plenum reinforcement kit.
I have just gasket match ported the intake manifold (and it's looking GOOD). My 1997 has the divder plate down the middle. Is there a noticable advantage in removing it? Should I just shorten the runners and leave the divider? (The divider looks like it could be a pain to remove.)Also what do you know about filling the plenum to maintain air flow veloscity? What material is used and how is it placed? Any pics?
Also the factory valve cover gasket had some damage to the silicon on one side so I cleaned it all off exposing the metal surface of the gasket. I plan on stacking a set of Flepro's on top to get the clearance for the roller rockers along with a BFH mod to the baffels. Should I replace the factory gasket or do you think the Felpro's will seal just fine on the one side
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
10/20/2004
09:08:04
| RE: ??'s about porting Intake
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Message:
sorry for the confusion guys. When I said I cut my runners 2-2.5", I was referring to my V6 that was in my truck. It had a stock cam, stock springs, stock valves, stock lifters, stock pushrods, stock rods, stock pistons, stock crank... you get the idea.
only thing not stock IN the motor was the 1.7 RR.
oh... and sorry, that cam i have listed in my signature is not being used anymore. Didnt work well with a lot compression motor. Using a xtreme energy 262/270 .462/.470 now.
Gears,
I used a dremel on my first one and it took me forever to do. Now i use air tools and a die grinder will cut the time in half.
6.6 Lt. Big Block, 727 TF shift kit, 452 heads, edelbrock 750 cfm, .513/.513 284/300 crower cam, comp cams springs, comp cams pushrods, 1.5 roller rockers, dp intake, mopar ignition, mopar windage tray, dual exhaust w/ 40 series flowmasters, 4.10 gears, coilover drag suspension, approx, 3500 lbs
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rdkc01
Dodge Dakota
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10/20/2004
09:16:49
| ??'s about porting intake
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Intense; Could you shine some light on my questions posted above? Need to get back to working on it soon.
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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10/20/2004
11:39:25
| RE: ??'s about porting Intake
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"Could you shine some light on my questions posted above?"
Are you trying to tune the intake for torque or high end horsepower? Intense said his "butt dyno" didn't feel the difference, but I can almost guarantee you that there was a difference.
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
10/20/2004
23:18:29
| RE: ??'s about porting Intake
IP: Logged
Message:
i was just suggesting that did not notice a loss in torque... if it was there. It wasnt measureable by me (not enough to notice).
rdkc,
i would remove the divider. I dont know if it will do much because i havent just done that as the only mod... but i would hate to take everything back apart and redo it. A dremel will work to remove it but takes a loooooong time. It's best to use a die grinder with a 3" cut off wheel.
Also, if you have a messed up gasket, replace it. Dont wanna learn the hard way if it will leak or not.
If you use a BFH on the baffles, you shouldnt have to stack the gaskets in pairs. I would just use the factory gaskets because they are reusable.
6.6 Lt. Big Block, 727 TF shift kit, 452 heads, edelbrock 750 cfm, .513/.513 284/300 crower cam, comp cams springs, comp cams pushrods, 1.5 roller rockers, dp intake, mopar ignition, mopar windage tray, dual exhaust w/ 40 series flowmasters, 4.10 gears, coilover drag suspension, approx, 3500 lbs
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rdkc01
Dodge Dakota
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10/21/2004
06:37:11
| RE: ??'s about porting Intake
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IntenseDak39
Thank you. Do you know anything about filling the intake. I see Hughes engines has a picture on there website of a V8 thats done.
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
10/21/2004
16:17:31
| RE: ??'s about porting Intake
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Message:
never done it.. dont plan on ever doing it.
doubt it would have any effect on performance. It sounds good and all... but probably just one of those "TB spacer" mods (looks good on paper, but nothing in real world).
6.6 Lt. Big Block, 727 TF shift kit, 452 heads, edelbrock 750 cfm, .513/.513 284/300 crower cam, comp cams springs, comp cams pushrods, 1.5 roller rockers, dp intake, mopar ignition, mopar windage tray, dual exhaust w/ 40 series flowmasters, 4.10 gears, coilover drag suspension, approx, 3500 lbs
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Gears
Dodge Dakota
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10/21/2004
19:01:46
| RE: ??'s about porting Intake
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Thanks Intense.....Thanks Larry
I have all winter to cut out the divider, I'll be installing it AFTER the last frost. I plan on polishing it on the outside too. It'll be sweet..
After see Larry's post about cutting down the runner, I'm thinking maybe 1 or 1 1/2 inch trim on the runners
Gears
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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10/21/2004
21:08:17
| RE: ??'s about porting Intake
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"doubt it would have any effect on performance."
Intense, are you saying the manifold doesn't play a part in the design of single plane manifolds? What manifold do you run on your 400?
"but probably just one of those "TB spacer" mods (looks good on paper, but nothing in real world)."
They are pretty useless on keggers, but other engines that have small plenums can benefit greatly. Like so many things that work in one application, they are laughable in others. In this case, their function would be just the reverse of filling the manifold.
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
10/21/2004
22:15:15
| RE: ??'s about porting Intake
IP: Logged
Message:
so are you agreeing with or arguing?
do you just like to see yourself post?
they are pretty useless on the dodge dakota's factory keggers.. that's what the topic is about... not other engines that have small plenums. I know they work wonders on a chebby 4.3.. infact, the '03 silverado has one factory installed and makes more power than any of the other 4.3s.
what i was doubting on performance was filling in the little area below the throttle ports on the intake. I am not arguing that point... but stickin' with my opinion on the mod until i see a performance measurement being made (anybody wanna just fill in their stock manifold and dyno?).
.. and i am running a performer 383 manifold. Dual plan, lots of low end power.. only good to about 5500-6000 rpms on the top though. My BB wont be seeing anything higher.
6.6 Lt. Big Block, 727 TF shift kit, 452 heads, edelbrock 750 cfm, .513/.513 284/300 crower cam, comp cams springs, comp cams pushrods, 1.5 roller rockers, dp intake, mopar ignition, mopar windage tray, dual exhaust w/ 40 series flowmasters, 4.10 gears, coilover drag suspension, approx, 3500 lbs
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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10/22/2004
06:52:45
| RE: ??'s about porting Intake
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Message:
"so are you agreeing with or arguing?"
Both, actually. Agreeing that spacer are useless on stock magnum manifolds and disagreeing with your doubt that "it(filling)would have any effect on performance. Maybe you were just over-simplifing, because I think you know that it would obviously affect performance. You just don't know whether it would be good or bad. I'm not sure either, but I have an extra manifold and may give it a try. However, unlike your BB, it's a lot more work. God, I miss the old days.
"do you just like to see yourself post?"
Well, I'm not exactly overly impressed with you either, but that's a different topic. If you want to turn an otherwise intelligent debate into a flame war, be my guest.
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J and J Auto
GenII
10/22/2004
08:10:11
| RE: ??'s about porting Intake
IP: Logged
Message:
You will not lose any low end shortening the
runners the low end loss comes in around 13 1/2
and less 1 1/2 to 2" is fine.
The gasket match helps a lot and it all depends on
how you plan to drive if you like to run hard
shortening the runners and removing the devider
is the way to go, no more than 2" unless your
running a cam that makes power at a higher rpm
What they use is called plastic aluminum you need
to scoff the surface for a good bond, I have used
this on the old 312 ford police intercepter boat
motors on the alm exhaust manifolds that like to
burn threw and it held up. Another thing I did
with the manifolds was to run stainless incerts
full length to stop the burn threw they were known
for.
Just set the cover on with gasket, fuel pump relay
removed and crank it over to be sure it does not
hit the rockers and be sure you leave an 1/8 open
on the ends of the baffles so the PCV will work
and you can get oil into the motor.
If you damaged the gasket that bad replace it or
use some black RTV silicon thin coat in that spot
to replace what was knocked off.
As far as stacking gaskits I would never do that
Larry
J&J Auto
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
10/22/2004
13:48:02
| RE: ??'s about porting Intake
IP: Logged
Message:
N56629,
sorry but i havent started a flame war.. just asked ya a question. Just seems as though you contradict stuff that i mention and dont seem to have any point with it (not just this thread).
if people ask me about something i have done, then i am gonna give them as much knowledge as i have on it... I have done several V6 manifolds and had all of them impressed with it. If someone (not necessarily you) that hasnt even cut more than 1/4" off of a runner on a V6 manifold tell someone else they are gonna loose all this torque with no experience, then i am gonna let them know... that's just how i feel about it.
oh.. and it's nice to see you are impressed with me (but not overly}. It was not part of my plan but it's nice to have people look at me like that.
have a good day!
6.6 Lt. Big Block, 727 TF shift kit, 452 heads, edelbrock 750 cfm, .513/.513 284/300 crower cam, comp cams springs, comp cams pushrods, 1.5 roller rockers, dp intake, mopar ignition, mopar windage tray, dual exhaust w/ 40 series flowmasters, 4.10 gears, coilover drag suspension, approx, 3500 lbs
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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10/22/2004
16:06:25
| RE: ??'s about porting Intake
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Message:
"If someone (not necessarily you) that hasnt even cut more than 1/4" off of a runner on a V6 manifold tell someone else they are gonna loose all this torque with no experience, then i am gonna let them know... that's just how i feel about it."
You are right, I base my opinion on the V8 maifold. Right now I have a friend that I'm helping port a V6 manifold and I'll let you know what he thinks of it when it's done. Of course that will mean that you still have twice as much experience (two manifolds vs. one.)
While, unlike me, you give us the benefit of your experience, I've yet to see any real evidence. You know, like dyno tests. Like you, perhaps, my own experience has shown that you can't always rely on commonly known formulas to calculate intake and exhaust lengths. However, when people tell me things that are contrary to common rules of thumb, I tend to disagree or question things.
I'm a little curious why you think that the V6 responds or should respond so much better to shortening the runners than the V8.
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Wadak
GenIII
10/22/2004
20:34:46
| RE: ??'s about porting Intake
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Message:
I have personally gasket matched and ported 4 of the keg style mainfolds, 1 v8 and 3 v6, I removed the divider on the one for my 97 v6, I didn't cut the runners back on it. It will be coming off when I get the camshaft from krc or hughes have decided on one yet.
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