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Wolf
Dodge Dakota
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7/24/2002
15:07:37
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 Subject: Suspension Idea
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ok was thinking about this for a couple of days now... i have drawn up rough sketches for the idea... but here let me explain it.. there are no lifts that i can see out there for a 99+ Dak thats more then 3 inches because of the R&P... so i had an idea that would enable you to get 6" of lift (what it is designed for in the drawing but could be more or less i supose) and keep all the same factory angles and what not also allowing you not to have to drop the stearing box... now this is for a 2wd modle... i have a 99 2wd SLT extended cab..... there is no detail in the drawings for the stabalizer bar because i havnt figured out what to do there yet... i wanted to hear other peoples ideas on this subject... would it work would it not... just general feed back would be great... im no expert... ok well i dont have a webpage put up but im starting to think i should get one up... but if anyone would like to put the PDF file up on their webpage and list a link in here please email me and ill send you the file... until then anyone who would like to see the drawings please email me at lonewolfed69@hotmail.com
thanks
Wolf
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Wolf
Dodge Dakota
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7/24/2002
17:39:32
| RE: Suspension Idea
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ok just so its clear its the lower Aarm and spindle and all... but i didnt show the disc breaks in the drawing because well they just get in the way... so yall dont get confused
Wolf
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Wolf
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2002
10:47:41
| RE: Suspension Idea
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ok i put it up on a webpage you can goto it at
http://www.geocities.com/wolfdak99
and click on the link for it on the lower right hand side its called suspension plans
or if your lazy like me just goto
http://www.geocities.com/wolfdak99/suspension.pdf
thanks for checkin it out yall.
Wolf
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EBOLAVIRS
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2002
11:02:54
| RE: Suspension Idea
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Well at least you are thinking about how it could be done but I suspect if it were easy one of the major lift makers out there would have come up with something already......
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Rick Gessler
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2002
11:08:30
| RE: Suspension Idea
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Good concept, but looks a little shaky. I would try to provide something additional to keep the arm spacer from getting pried away from the frame rail. Probably a few bolts. Also the steering linkage just using a 6" tall standoff is asking for trouble. I would also look into a way to have some sort of triangulated support. I am not familiar with the 2 wheel drive models, as I have a 4X4, but I think with a little more detailed work you could get it done. If you think you have something here that people are interested in, I may be able to help out with production this winter. I am a mechanical engineer in the MPLS/St. Paul Minnesota area and I have access to all sorts of machine tools, but most importantly I have a CNC mill in my garage that is down at the moment, but should be running this winter.
-Rick
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Chaximus
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2002
11:18:44
|  RE: Suspension Idea
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Oh my.....all this talk is making my hormones rush. I am witnessing the birth of a new suspension lift for our 2wd!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! May the force be with u! :)
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Wolf
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2002
11:23:58
| RE: Suspension Idea
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I uploaded a new PDF file... i blew up the detail section so its easier to see...
that would be kewl Rick... if there are enough people wanting it that would be kewl... and yeah i dont have aolt of detail in it its just a concept drawing at the moment... your right about it looking a bit shaky... i was also thinking of trying to mount it with something extra to the frame to keep it sturdy... but instead of a bolt (unless i can find a good place where i dont have to actualy make a whole or weld on my frame) i was thinking of making a cover type thing to go over the outside of the frame that would also sit flush... the problem is.. is when i make it the messurments would have to be to atleast 1 hundreth of an inch to make it so it doesnt vibrate too much....
as for the steering extension... i have it to where it doesnt just bolt on it actualy goes around the link then a bolt is put through it because there is about a 3/8" - 1/2" space between the outside of the link and the break rotor... so it can wrap around im figuring a thickness in that area of about 3/16"-5/16".. that should make it sturdy enough but i still have calculations to do.. i need to find out how much force my steering arm will put out and how much the bar could take at 6" before it bends... so ive gota dig out some of my old engr. books... but anyways thank you all for your feed back... keep it coming please... the more i have the less chance of having my truck suddenly drop 6" while im driving ;)
Wolf
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Wolf
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2002
11:25:04
| RE: Suspension Idea
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oh yeah... any idea's of what i could do with the stabalizer bar?
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Wolf
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2002
11:27:58
| RE: Suspension Idea
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EBOLAVIRS... i was thinking the same thing... but then i started thinking 1 the big companies concentrate on 4x4's mostly... and 2... they are always thinking that they have to drop the steering box... maybe they never thought of doing something like this... but maybe your right maybe its not this easy.. but ill never know if i dont try right?
WOlf
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Wolf
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2002
11:28:02
| RE: Suspension Idea
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EBOLAVIRS... i was thinking the same thing... but then i started thinking 1 the big companies concentrate on 4x4's mostly... and 2... they are always thinking that they have to drop the steering box... maybe they never thought of doing something like this... but maybe your right maybe its not this easy.. but ill never know if i dont try right?
WOlf
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Chaximus
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2002
11:36:25
| RE: Suspension Idea
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I got a simple idea...let's just have a chat with this guy:
http://www.jeepaholics.com/citizensband/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID =8186&FORUM_ID=2&CAT_ID=2&Topic_Title=Check+out+this+Truck&Forum _Title=General+Jeep+Discussions
He lifted his truck (in the worse way imaginable) but nevertheless, he lifted it!
What was he on!!!! damn.
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Chaximus
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2002
11:39:52
| RE: Suspension Idea
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http://www.jeepaholics.com/citizensband/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8186&FORUM_ID=2&CAT_ID=2&Topic_Title=Check+out+this+Truck&Forum_Title=General+Jeep+Discussions
did that one work?
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4wDakota
GenIII
7/25/2002
12:02:19
|  RE: Suspension Idea
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It's actually not a bad idea but that guy just screwed it all up.
one thing that sticks out is a dana 44 could not have been too much more than that custom made pipe crap he did.
But if you must stick with 2wd and can't get spindles you could but the front axle off of a 2wd cherokee. They were a solid I beam. You could use leafs or coils. The major thing (where this guy screwed up) is the trackbar. You need to have it as close to horizontal as possible to alleviate bump steer.
98 CC 4x4, 5.2 Auto 3.55LSD
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Wolf
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2002
12:02:37
| RE: Suspension Idea
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holy cr*p... i bed that rig never see off road... its heck hit a speed bump and you might flip!... theres a guy that has a chevy like that in COllege Station... *shudders at the though of having leaf springs in the front with that much lift*
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Wolf
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2002
13:01:21
| RE: Suspension Idea
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ok does anyone know where i can get coils and shocks made for my truck with the 6"lift... im talking about a place that i can say ok this is my truck... i have 6 extra inches of travle and i need shocks and coils for it how much will it run me... thanks
Wolf
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Wolf
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2002
13:10:47
| RE: Suspension Idea
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ok i had an idea... i figure it shouldnt cost too much to get this fabed up the coils and shocks are the most expensive part... i was thinking maybe i could make a temp extension to just bolt in to where the coils and shock sits and raises it up... yeah i really dont like that idea either but it would allow me to see if the lift would work before droping the money into the coils and shocks... im going to see if i can get a rough estamate from a foundry that the company i work for goes thro... but hey if coils and shocks aint too expensive i could do that instead of the extension... well anywyas ill stop posting so much its starting to look like im talking to myself hehe ;)
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Wolf
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2002
13:53:37
| RE: Suspension Idea
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well hell ;) i asked my boss about what it would cost me at the foundry and stuff but that might be a little too expensive because they actualy dont pour the steel there they press it and that would be nice but that looks like a 12K startup fee... buuuuut he got all excited and he wants to fab and powder coat it here and sell it and ship it.. hehe so anyways he had a good idea... i can make it out of square stock and weld it and machine it to what i need and add anything else to it that i need... so basicly he told me i can come in on Saturdays and use what ever i need to make it and stuff... so i might go that rout.. be alot cheaper too but anyways... ill probably get some new drawings madeup with more exact measurements... and what not... well anyways... i need to know about those coils and shocks so if you know something please post it... so i can try this out...
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4wDakota
GenIII
7/25/2002
14:06:32
|  RE: Suspension Idea
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Rams 4x4's have the same coils as Dakota 2wd's so a 3" coil spacer for a ram 4x4 would work(Procomp Rancho and many others use spacers in there basic kits). That combined with 3" coils from Fabtech will give you 6".
98 CC 4x4, 5.2 Auto 3.55LSD
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Wolf
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2002
14:11:30
| RE: Suspension Idea
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hrmmm that might be a way to go... but what about the shocks? but still id rather have one single coil all the way down if possible but if not then thats a good idea... i might even be able to rip the coils and stuff off one from a junkyard...
are you sure that the Rams coils will give me 3" of lift? and i thought fabtech only had a 2" spacer...
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4wDakota
GenIII
7/25/2002
14:17:32
| RE: Suspension Idea
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Not the ram coils but the coil spacers. The coils for the rams and daks are different spring rates but the seat size is the same. If you look around for stuff for 2wd dakotas you'll only find 2" spacers or 3" coils. You can buy both and get 5". But if you want 6" just call lift manufacturers that have 3" ram spacers. They will fit and you'll have the proper spring rate because the Fabtech Dakota coil is used.
Does that make sense. Basically if you ask for a 3" spacer for a dakota everyone will tell you it doesn't exist. the 3" made for the ram will fit though.
Or you can call Fabtech, they make 3" springs they can easily make 6" ones. The spacers would still be cheaper though.
98 CC 4x4, 5.2 Auto 3.55LSD
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Wolf
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2002
14:22:19
| RE: Suspension Idea
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hrmmmm kewl now i need to see what the cost would be to go either rout... i wonder what my truck would sit at with the ram's spring rate hehe ;) anyways... but do you have any idea where i could get the correct size shocks?
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4wDakota
GenIII
7/25/2002
14:29:49
| RE: Suspension Idea
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Most offroad shock companies can provide any size. If its an off size you'll pay a little extra per shock.
All they need to know is Dakota 2wd and X # of inches . Then they match up your mount types (bushing, eyelet, whatever your truck has)with a shock 6" longer than the stock Dakota. 4wheelparts can get you that.
BTW What is your plan for this 6" of lift. Cradle? You'll need some radical upper a-arm design to get around everything. My suggestion is stick with the 3" Fabtech and focus on the spindle.
98 CC 4x4, 5.2 Auto 3.55LSD
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Wolf
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2002
14:40:41
| RE: Suspension Idea
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i dont follow what your saying by Cradle... but yeah 6 inches of lift... im going to take a closer look at everything tonight but i think since its a straight drop i might not have to do anything with the upper A-arm... but you have to rember this lift wont give me extra flex... the flex will/should be the same... but i might go a little less then 6 inches maybe a little more im not totaly sure... im going to see how much lift i will need to level out my truck after making it a spring over instead of a spring under in the rear.... im hoping the drive shaft is long enough to still work correctly without having to get an extension... anyone know anything about that?
Wolf
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4wDakota
GenIII
7/25/2002
15:06:25
| RE: Suspension Idea
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A cradle is to drop the lower a-arms. If you look at the big 9" 2wd lifts for fords and chevies they use cradles. It attaches to the frame where the a arms originally did and acts as aa subframe for the arms to attach to.
I say stick with the spindle idea. The upper a-arms are maxed out. Some people have put 3" coils and2" spacers and had no travel downwards because the a-arm was against the coil bracket.
Here's how I see it. To get 6" of lift you can do one of the following
1) 6" coil/spacer lift - this puts the a-arms at a bad angle. New custom a-arms will need to be made or the frame mounts moved down 3-6"
If you do just custom a-arms then the pivot points from wheel to frame are still 6" from stock which changes handling dramatically
2) Cradle lift - as mentioned in (1) this will move the stock a-ams down 6" or a fabtech setup down 3" to keep the geometry right
3) Custom spindles - This can be used with the 3" fabtech to get you to 6" and at the same time can incorporate steering geometry changes to adjust for the rack-&-pinion steering.
98 CC 4x4, 5.2 Auto 3.55LSD
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4wDakota
GenIII
7/25/2002
15:12:35
| RE: Suspension Idea
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Another item to add to #3
I've looked at 2wd's a few times and have spent a lot of time looking at my truck. The spindle idea is very do-able
The problem is that there is no room, even with aftermarket rims. When you move the spindle(the actuale spindle not the knuckle) down 3" relative to the knucke the upper balljoint will hit the rim. The only way to get around this is to move the mount further in (toward frame) to get it out of the rim. This will make the wheel stick out farther or require shorter upper a-arms.
The way I've always looked at it is to basically recreate the stock knuckle with the spindle 3" lower and also lower the a-arm mount. At the same time flip the a-arm so the balljoint is below the mounting point instead of on top to keep it from contacting the wheel.
Got that,
Corey
98 CC 4x4, 5.2 Auto 3.55LSD
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Wolf
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2002
15:46:16
| RE: Suspension Idea
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ok i see what you mean by the spindle problem but see i dont think id have that problem if i do it the way im thinking simply because if you extend the spindle down and keep the same pivot point(the knuckle) you had alot more range of motion(relative radius) into the equation what im talking about is extending it down with a piece that wont move at all... so it has to sit flush to the knuckle mount then have an exact replica of the knuckle mount on the lower end of the extension... therefor keeping the same range of motion... the only problems i see so far is 1 what to do with the stabalizer bar 2 extending the bump stop and 3 is finding a spring that would work correctly that is extended the extra 6" and wont be too limp because of the same range of motion.. so basicly i might hit my bump stops more since it doesnt have that extra 6" of space to compress because the amount of force that is given out is by the equation of F=1/2kx^2 (hrmm i think thats the correct equations.. its off the top of my head... so forgive me if im wrong) but this problem would probably be fixed by running stiffer shocks... but ya know i could be totaly wrong here and you could be 100% right... so keep the discussion coming please ;)
Wolf
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4wDakota
GenIII
7/25/2002
15:59:27
| RE: Suspension Idea
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I'm not totally clear on what your saying. The thing with spindles is not having to change any of the geometry and thus only needing 3" springs and the other 3" coming from the spindles. Shoot me an Acad drawing or pdf of what you thinking and I'll let you know
98 CC 4x4, 5.2 Auto 3.55LSD
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Wolf
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2002
16:16:42
| RE: Suspension Idea
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look at the cad drawing (in PDF form) at
http://www.geocities.com/wolfdak99/suspension.pdf
thats my original idea... but im going to be making changes...
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Wolf
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2002
21:50:13
| RE: Suspension Idea
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ok well heres what i see so far... i negated the upper A-arm hehe opse ;) well that shouldnt be too hard to fit in there and second im not going to be able to order new springs... i was looking at it and the springs and shocks are at an angle to which if i move the lower A-arm down 6 inches or more it will cause the spring to hit the frame.... not good.. so what i figured is i could make a block to fit in the lower A-arm that is a 6" coil spacer... hrmm yeah i know i know i know.. 6" is alot.. but anyways... if its made sturdy and out of steel i should be fine.. but it will let me keep the same shocks and coils... yeah that kinda sucks but at the momet its the only think i can think of to do.. well anyways talk to you all later
Wolf
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Wolf
Dodge Dakota
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7/26/2002
11:28:55
| RE: Suspension Idea
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ok this is starting to look more complex then i thought... well not really complex but its looking like there is going to be alot of extra "adapters or extensions" and more parts = more of a chance for something to go wrong because one small mistake.... so i was thinking.. yeah i know a dangerious thing right? well anyways since id have to make an extension for the connections of the spindle to the top A-Arm (i was thinking about this when i got to work this morning so i have to take a closer look at it) i should make one for the bottem connection of the spindle to the lower A-arm so i no longer have to move the A-arms at all just drop the spindle.. then all i have to worry about is 4 pieces.. the two A-arm extensions the steering extension and the breakline extension.... ( how hard is it to extend the breakline btw.. ive never done it so is it a pain to keep the hose seated or is it relativly easy?)
tell me what you all think (of course id have to disign it so its not wobbly but im confident i can make something thats up to the task)
Wolf
P.S. yes i know what your thinking with all this home made bunk arse lift... he's crazy right?... yeah maybe a little bit...
P.S.S. oh yeah one more thing.. anyone know what new spindles cost just incase i totaly make mine FUBAR
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Phillip
Dodge Dakota
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9/21/2002
18:53:29
| RE: Suspension Idea
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you still need upper c-arms to correct suspension angle
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