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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
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12/24/2003
11:59:20
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 Subject: RE: The 4.7L debate ends
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THIS, is a great thread!
WalterOne, you might even see lower ET with the manual.
Again, this is an awesome thread, even Duner chimed in!
I've been trying to get some low cost duals on, or get rid of the third cat. But here in the HOuston area, even the surrounding counties are mandating emissions, and the shops won't do it. Guess I might try cutting myself, and clamping, or having a pipe welded in for the third cat. Down south near Mexico, I think they'll gut my cat for me, and I'm going to San Antonio tomorrow, maybe I'll try then.
Todd Bouton
01, QC, SLT, tire and handling, trailer towing, .........
4.7, 5spd manual, HO cams and intake, no stink'n belt clutch/fan, ported 68mm TB, homebrew 'true' CAI, 3923's,
lot's of fun for a family truck/sedan!
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Waltherone
Dodge Dakota
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12/24/2003
16:55:32
|  RE: The 4.7L debate ends
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Ehh, maybe I would and maybe I wouldn't see better times with the manual, but I sure as hell ain't switchin :P
Truck shifts at 5400 on it's own, and with the 26" slicks and 3.92 gears, and stalling it to about 1500 at the line, it spins up plenty fast, and I doubt running higher than 5400 would net me a lot of power anyways.
I'm in Sugar Land, you just gotta find a shop to set you up with an emissions sticker :) I didn't have the exhaust when I got inspected last year, but I hear the cutout is gonna cause me problems next year....I just bought a sticker for my corolla, so maybe I'll have to do that for the truck as well :\
How come you're in houston and we've never met you?
http://forums.delphiforums.com/HTownRTs/start
Go, now :)
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xplikt
GenIII
12/26/2003
10:49:58
| RE: The 4.7L debate ends
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I run slower shifting after 5400 RPM range (current setup anyways). I think about 5200 got me the best times. I tried shifting right before 6K and was only like 15.5-15.6..
So no big deal for the autos.
-Mike
http://www.dodgetruckworld.com/xplikt/
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out | straight piped 3rd cat | turndown tip
Full Hotchkis and RAS
Shaved emblems and antennae
150BM fan | removed clutch | HD Radiator
R/T wheels on 275/40/17 Dunlop 9000s
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
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12/27/2003
12:01:25
|  RE: The 4.7L debate ends
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Waltherone,
Didn't you have 4.10's installed?
If so, I don't think the 5spd manny would help. That would put first pretty low ratio. I meant if you had 3.55's and a little less weight, it me be a tad faster.
Nice times though!
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xplikt
GenIII
12/27/2003
14:26:04
| RE: The 4.7L debate ends
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"I meant if you had 3.55's and a little less weight, it me be a tad faster."
3.55s would make him slower, 4.10s would easy make a noticable difference in times (being lower).
You know the law is they can't take a cat off unless they put ont back on right? If you cut off your cat yourself and drive it to them, there should be no problems -- they can't get in trouble. Most shops do that around here (MT).
-Mike
http://www.dodgetruckworld.com/xplikt/
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out | straight piped 3rd cat | turndown tip
Full Hotchkis and RAS
Shaved emblems and antennae
150BM fan | removed clutch | HD Radiator
R/T wheels on 275/40/17 Dunlop 9000s
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Waltherone
Dodge Dakota
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12/27/2003
15:06:49
| RE: The 4.7L debate ends
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xplikt, what he's tryin to say is that, if I had auto with 3.55 gears, I'd see better times probly from manual with 3.55 gears.
Either way, Todd, I got 3.92's put in, I dunno why I didn't do the 4.10's, but it's too late now :)
Letting one of the Houston guys with the 5-spd/3.92 borrow my 26" ET Streets, he was having to shift before the 60' mark.
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.alex.
Dodge Dakota
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12/29/2003
08:18:34
| RE: The 4.7L debate ends
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Brian, I am having to shift my manny tranny at 5500 rpm with my 3.55 rear and 26" tires, so you are not missing out on much, if the slushbox is shifting at 5400 rpm.
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CThomp
*GenIII*
12/29/2003
08:32:20
| RE: The 4.7L debate ends
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I know this is off topic and all but I thought I'd let you guys know that SSB brakes is offering their front brakes upgrade for $220 with free shipping through their web page. I'm ordering it at lunch today. The offer is only good for 2 more days.
I just stumbled across it. Makes me wonder what other companies are offering good deals.
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
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12/29/2003
09:52:15
| RE: The 4.7L debate ends
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Thanks Walterone for clearing that up to Mike for me, yea, I meant what you said.
The 3.55's I have now are pretty long in 5th, I thinking about the 3.92's also, especially with my heavy ol QC.
Again, nice job on the 1/4 times. I'll bet those regrinds really help some more too. Do you still have a nice smooth idle?
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waltherone
Dodge Dakota
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12/29/2003
17:49:05
| RE: The 4.7L debate ends
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Well man, I HAD a real sloppy rough "glug glug glug" idle before the PCM flash...and I loved it :) But it was also prone to some stalling (rare, but it did happen some) when the RPMs were dropping, say while coming to a stop at a light or something. Now after the PCM, it idles steadily at 900rpm. It's far smoother, but I kinda miss the sloppy sounding idle it used to have...made me feel like I had a big V8 or something :P
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BLK00DAK
Dodge Dakota
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1/17/2004
19:42:30
| RE: The 4.7L debate ends
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Awesome times! I'm glad to see someone finally killed the LIE that only 4.7 5-speeds can hang with the auto-only R/T's. BTW Waltherone, are you running the mod that disables the timing retard before the trans shifts?
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Waltherone
Dodge Dakota
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1/17/2004
23:41:19
| RE: The 4.7L debate ends
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Nope...I got no plans of using it.. Given what it does, I'm doubtful that it would actually improve E.T.'s so for now that wire is staying in tact. :)
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BluDak01
Dodge Dakota
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1/18/2004
01:29:08
| RE: The 4.7L debate ends
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Waltherone, did you change the valvesprings when you did the cams, & did you do any head work? I have a 2001 C/C auto, I have true duals, ported 68TB, CAI, (JBA'S are comin). I talked to Marty at KRC about runnin the 212's and he said I should have no problems with the converter, he also said they have a program for my PCM. Last question, did you notice a difference after you installed the HO intake over the stock one?
Thanks,
Mark
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
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1/18/2004
10:20:20
| RE: The 4.7L debate ends
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Walt,
I'm definitely no authority here, especially since I have to shift my Dak myself, (thank god),
But from what I've heard, that mod would still help you alittle more. The reasoning behind it is sound, sounds like an easy change, might be worth it.
Again, way to push the envelope.
Todd
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Waltherone
Dodge Dakota
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1/18/2004
11:32:03
| RE: The 4.7L debate ends
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BlueDak,
Nope, I'm still on the stock springs, and no head work was done. Would be nice, but I don't have the money to port heads :\ As for the intake, I noticed very little if any gain. I did the HO manifold after the cams but before the PCM flash, the only thing I noticed was that power didn't fall off after 4800. It didn't INCREASE either though, power just kinda flatlined from 4800-5400 when the shift hits. Either way, truck shifts at 5400 on it's own, so might as well not have the power drop off for those last 600 rpms right? Ask .alex. if it's worth it, maybe with his 212 cams the powerband is moved up a little and the manifold can really help. On my 206's though, not much of a gain :\
Todd,
Yeah the reasoning behind it is sound, but
1: so far no one has actually produced any numbers showing it to increase E.T.
and
2: If you think about what it does, the tranny is sitll acting 100% normal. People say 'oh yay my truck shifts hard now' etc, but the truck shifts the same, it just keeps full timing and makes it feel harder. It's just my reasoning that keeping an extra few degrees of timing for about 1 full second (if even that) during a shift won't gain me anything in the 1/4 mile. I wouldn't even expect to see a full tenth of a second out of it really, and given that the purpose of the torque-reduction wire is to make shifts softer *and to prolong tranny life*, and the fact that I already stall a stock tranny up to 1500 at the line, I don't think I wanna give it any more abuse if I'm not gonna gain anything from it.
Just for sh!ts and giggles, and since a lot of people have told me it would make a difference in E.T's, I might cut the wire and put a switch on it and test it next time at the track, but after that I'll probly crimp the wire back together because I am still almost certain no worthy gain will be seen.
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BluDak01
Dodge Dakota
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1/18/2004
13:33:34
| RE: The 4.7L debate ends
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Walterone, Thanks!
.alex., do you think the HO intake will help if I go with the 212's. Also do you think the PCM flash is worth it?
thanks,
Mark
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ticats
Dodge Dakota
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1/18/2004
17:43:18
| RE: The 4.7L debate ends
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Waltherone ... congrats! Glad to see an auto. and a club cab to boot within a tic of 13s. Good luck!!!
ticats, ontario, canada.
97 Dak CC Sport, 5.2L, 44RE, 3000 stall, 4.56SG, race weight 4,120 lb, 13.98 @ 99.85.
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.alex.
Dodge Dakota
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1/19/2004
09:56:18
| RE: The 4.7L debate ends
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Blu,
You're my boy Blu! You're my BOY! (see Old School)
Anyhow, I originally installed the HO cams & HO intake all in one day. I can't vouch for the gains from the intake one way or the other, but I'd say that since they have shorter runners, the HO manifold will help you rev up into the power band where the 212's really work best. They are designed to make a LOT of power above 3500, but the stock manifold starts to restrict airflow at about 4800 rpm..... The HO manifold allows the motor to keep revving and I eventually shift at 5500 rpm.
My combo is the 72mm TB, the HO manifold, the 212's, true duals with no cats, and a Mike Leach flash. My truck has an ass-load of power from 2000 to 5800, but the majority of that power is from 2800 to 5500 rpm.
End result is this: If you are running the 212's, I'd recommend the HO intake AND the KRC computer flash. I have had so-so luck with the Mike LEach flash, and Marty seems to have gotten the computer pretty damn dialed in for Waltherone. He's faster than me and he still has a single exhaust and a stock 68mm TB.
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Waltherone
Dodge Dakota
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1/19/2004
11:33:08
| RE: The 4.7L debate ends
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2000's had 65mm throttle body ;)
Also gotta consider the weather I made that run in though, was COOOOOOLD out, the engine was COLD, it was great. Your 14.14 run was in like early november wasn't it?
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.alex.
Dodge Dakota
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1/19/2004
15:00:15
| RE: The 4.7L debate ends
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It was actually late October. Temps were in the mid 50's and the track was at 450 elevation.
I am going racing this Saturday at a track that is 100 feet lower. Problem is that the air will be in the low 60's.... :~(
I may wait til after dark and make some really cold-ass passes like you did. Maybe there's a few tenths left in it.
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