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08:45:51 - 11/17/2024
Dakota Performance
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mrsbaddakota
Dodge Dakota
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11/09/2003
23:32:35
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 Subject: Valvoline Synthetic Oils
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Has anyone out there used Valvoline Synthetic oils? We have used there petroleum oils for years.We know all about Amsoil my husband used it 25 years ago. We just what to find out if anyone has used Valvoline Synthetics & there thoughts on them. Valvoline Synthetics have been accepted by Porsche and is reccomended in their owners manual as OK to use.
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GO HERE
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2003
00:56:13
| RE: Valvoline Synthetic Oils
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http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php
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Hemi
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2003
06:43:26
| RE: Valvoline Synthetic Oils
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I own a Ferrari as well as a Dak.
Be very careful. The oils for my Ferrari
are imported from Europe and cost me $70 qt.
They look very similar to the American oils
you see on the shelf at Walmart but they are
not. They may say Valvoline or Shell, Etc.
but they are a special racing formula. Might
very well be the same for Porshe.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/10/2003
07:01:20
|  RE: Valvoline Synthetic Oils
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Two things.
#1) I'm assuming your husband is alive, because you use the word "we".
#2) Your husband was VERY smart and connected to know about Amsoil 25 years ago. He must have been an Airforce Pilot. Amsoil has been in business for 30 years, the technology came directly from the synthetic oil technology used in Airforce Fighter Jets, and for the first few year it was only Airforce personnel that had the opportunity to buy Amsoil.
#3) If he was smart enough to use oil from a "brand new" company 25 years ago - he is certainly smart enough to figure out all he wants to know about Valvoline.
BOTTOM LINE: This is a baited question otherwise you would NOT have referred to Amsoil in your question. I know that it was "Go Here" that posted the original, and also his response. He thinks I am stupid.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsr
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2003
08:35:50
|  RE: Valvoline Synthetic Oils
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Okay,
Now that I have had my third cup of coffee, I am back. In regards to my above post, I feel the original post was to "bait" me (the AmsoilSponsor at www.dodgedakotas.com) so that I could be flamed (please refer to #'s 2 and 3 above).
In response to Hemi, you are correct. My brother-in-law is a Ferrari Dealer as well as a Dodge/Jeep Dealer. I get a lot of my information from him. I can't help you with anything for your Ferrari, as my bro-in-law's Dealerships are in England.
Regarding the link posted by "Go Here", that is a very good site, and I am one of their largest contributors with almost 1000 posts. I also ask a lot of questions on that site because "no man is an island" ... and everyone can't know everything. The Lubricants Industry is in a constant state of flux and changes almost daily.
Regarding Valvoline, if anyone is interested, please acknowledge as to whether you are asking about Synpower, Durablend or MaxLife, etc.
Thank You.
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jumperalex
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2003
10:47:26
| RE: Valvoline Synthetic Oils
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Well I don't know about all the BS games being played but I'll jsut answer the question honestly. I have been using Valvoline syntec since Mobile 1 played their little game with their "improved" tri-synth oil that was actually a reduction in their formulation. I know M1 still makes a great oil and I occasionally use it if the store is out of Valvoline. It just bugged me enough that I choose to switch.
Anyway I have had good experiences with the V-brand in both my heavily beat-on street/road course use car car (turbo eagle talon) and my motorycycle (race only R6). I'm also using it in my 03 Dak but of course not much history with 1000 miles. The biggest thing I found is that it seems to keep the hydraulic valve lifters in my talon quieter for longer as it is a known "problem" with those bad boys ticking.
So FWIW I'm someone who uses it and is very happy.
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mrsbaddakota
Dodge Dakota
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11/11/2003
01:21:39
| RE: Valvoline Synthetic Oils
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JUMPERALEX,
We want to thank you for your honest opinion. That is all we where looking for, someone who had or is using it.
I don't understand the BS above either. If you mention synthetic on these boards some Amsoil dealer jumps in as above. This is one reason my husband won't buy Amsoil. This seems to be the way Amsoil has gone. Like all companies cost cutting happens, and my husband questions if Amsoil is the same product it was 25 years ago when the military held them to strick guidelines. The BS from the dealer above blew any chance of us buying his product.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/11/2003
06:47:32
| Amsoil - Valvoline Synthetic Oils
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mrsbaddakota,
Sorry, but it looked just like a baited question.
1) You mentioned that your husband knew Amsoil 25 years ago.
Answer, 25 years ago only a small circle of friends were buying the product direct from the founder, Mr. Al Amatuzio. Al Amatuzio was inducted to the Lubricants World Hall of Fame. His commitment to higher quality and his belief that consumers respond to superior products remain the core of the Amsoil philosophy.
2) You asked about Valvoline, wich is a Group III base oil (hydrocracked dino). Anyone familiar with Amsoil would never settle for a Group III based Valvoline. (Though MaxLife is -or WAS - a good oil, but I think they just weakened the formula).Another red flag.
3)You talked about Valvoline being accepted by Porsche. Is that the European Valvoline (European oil and lube standards are higher than our MINIMUM API Certification - the Little Donut). I don't think Porsche would recommend the current line up of Valvoline available in the U.S.
NOTE: Mercedes made the same mistake. Their little "idiot light" that tells you when to change your oil was set for EUROPEAN OIL STANDARDS and not the WEAKER U.S. Standards --- so now they have hundreds of sludged engines to replace because people were using Dino, Synthetic Blends, Or Group III Fake Synthetics. To remedy the problem, Mercedes added to their "NEW" Owners Manual --- USE ONLY 100% FULL SYNTHETIC OIL.
Sorry, but your post looked like a baited question and most anyone would agree. It was a bad morning here at the office and I shot my mouth off a bit. Happens to the best of us.
__________________________________________________
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/11/2003
07:01:46
|  Amsoil = www.american-synthetic-oil.com
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Oh, and I forgot to answer you mrsbaddakota,
--------------------------------------------------
Amsoil is NOT the "same oil" that was introduced 25 years ago. Like everything around us, technology has changed --- and Lubricants and Tribology has improved as well. Please allow me to post an article where someone else toots our horn:
As a www.DodgeDakotas.com Site Sponsor, and to keep everyone informed, I would like to post the following article reprinted from an Industry Trade Magazine.
_______________________________________________________________________
..............................  ..............................
---------------
(David McFall's column on AMSOIL, reprinted from "Lubes 'n' Greases" Industry Trade Magazine, March 2003, in the hopes of "Reducing America's Dependence On Foreign Oil", and the elimination of tens of millions of unnecessary oil changes)
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AMSOIL Applauded for Extended Drain Technology
AMSOIL founder A.J. Amatuzio coined the phrase "extended drain intervals" back in 1972 with the introduction of AMSOIL 10W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil, formulated for 25,000-mile/one-year drain intervals. Not only was AMSOIL motor oil the first synthetic oil to pass American Petroleum Institute (API) service requirements, AMSOIL INC. was the only motor oil company promoting oil drains beyond 3,000 miles.
Today, motorists are still bombarded with propaganda from the major oil companies promoting 3,000-mile oil changes. However, the industry is slowly but surely coming around. Vehicle manufacturers typically suggest 5,000- to 7,500-mile intervals in their owners manuals, and many manufacturers have also started incorporating oil life monitors into their vehicles, allowing motorists to safely extend drain intervals by monitoring oil life and alerting drivers when the oil needs changing. Competing oil companies have also begun marketing their own synthetics, some claiming service lives extending beyond 3,000 miles.
Lubes-n-Greases Automotive Editor David McFall, once with the American Petroleum Institute recently tackled the issue of extended drain intervals in his March column, criticizing the standard 3,000-mile oil change and referring to the American motor oil market as "shackled".
"In Europe the average engine oil drain interval for current gasoline-fueled cars is about 10,000 miles," explains McFall. "In the United States, indicates the Automotive Oil Change Association, the average drain interval followed by most drivers is somewhat less than 5,000 miles, one-half of Europe's.
"Every year in the United States, this "too-short" drain interval results in the unneeded production of 300 million to 400 million gallons of engine oil; excess consumer expenditures of around $1.5 billion; and tens of millions of unnecessary oil changes."
Not only are these unnecessary oil changes an expense to consumers, explains McFall, but they have an environmental cost as well. "The added environmental cost of having an average 5,000-mile oil drain interval (instead of 10,000 miles, as in Europe) may be nearly 100 million gallons of engine oil being dumped, untreated, into the U.S. environment annually."
McFall's examination of Mobil 1, Shell and AMSOIL demonstrates the differences among companies who are shackled to the current system and one who isn't.
According to an ExxonMobil spokesperson, "Car owners should follow the oil change intervals specified by the manufacturer. We believe it is inappropriate to recommend drain intervals that may conflict with those set forth by the car manufacturer's specifications."
"Here, in a nutshell," says McFall, "is this observer's take on ExxonMobil's and the oil industry's 'owner's manual' position: It is designed solely to increase motor oil sales." He backs it up by mentioning that Mobil 1 SuperSyn motor oil claims to meet European ACEA A5 and B5-02 specifications, two specifications intended to extend oil drain intervals. "If the oil can be used in Europe for extended drain intervals, why doesn't ExxonMobil notify U.S. consumers of that capability?" asks McFall.
Although Shell Oil Products, owner of Pennzoil-Quaker State, has broken through the shackles enough to offer an API unlicensed oil specially formulated for higher mileage engines, they make no mention of a recommended drain interval, preferring instead to avoid the issue and keep consumers in the dark.
McFall marvels at the success of the independent motor oil company that offers drain intervals up to 11 times longer than the standard interval offered by conventional oils, saying, "Purists can sniff that AMSOIL's data isn't derived from a controlled field study, but the sheer mountain of vehicle miles over three decades, and the absence of any confirmed performance, wear or maintenance issues, speaks volumes."
McFall sums up his column by highlighting the true value of AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil, stating the cost may be "two to three times higher than most retail conventional oils but if you can securely count on a 15,000- to 25,000-mile drain interval, it's a flat-out bargain, not to mention providing a clear environmental bonus."
So, what is it that allows AMSOIL motor oils to be used for extended drain intervals, while other oils must be changed significantly sooner? First, the synthetic base stocks with which AMSOIL motor oils are formulated are worlds apart in quality compared with conventional base stocks. The synthetic molecules are uniform in size and shape, resisting the vaporization that boils off the smaller molecules of conventional motor oils and leaves behind a thicker, higher viscosity oil that compromises engine protection. AMSOIL motor oils surpass even the most stringent European volatility standards, providing superior protection for extended drain intervals.
Second, AMSOIL spares no expense when it comes to additives, selecting the most robust additive packages on the market. These additives keep AMSOIL motor oils shear stable, resist the degrading effects of varnish and sludge, keep engine components clean and deposit-free and effectively resist rust, corrosion and foaming.
By using only the highest quality synthetic base stocks and additives available, AMSOIL motor oils are capable of extended drain intervals, all while maintaining performance, providing long-term wear protection and fuel economy, keeping engines clean and deposit-free, providing cold weather starts and protecting against rust and corrosion.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Lubes 'n' Greases logo is a Registered Trademark of LNG Publishing Company, Inc.
______________________________________________________________
------------------------------  -----------------------------
Thank You,
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Dude
Dodge Dakota
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11/11/2003
11:24:02
| RE: Valvoline Synthetic Oils
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I have no opinion of Amsoil, b/c I have not used it.
I do however use Valvoline and Mobil 1 synthetics. Mostly I use Valvoline for everything else but eng oil, that is where I use Mobil. Either of them will be much better than the old stuff. I use Valvoline's Durablend when I purchase a car to get it from old to syn. oils. After 3-4 changes I go with full syn. Syn can find small areas to get out of that the old stuff cannot get to. I'm thinking of switching to Redline or Royalpurple soon just to see how good they are.
By the way AmsoilSponsor, GE will only allow its users to use Mobil in some of their biggest and baddest jet engines (ex. DC-10). It's night and day difference between then and now, and car vs. jet engine, but it's true.
I might try some just to see if it is any better. However my friends with Synergyn might beat me up even more so than now.
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mrsbaddakota
Dodge Dakota
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11/12/2003
01:10:38
| RE: Valvoline Synthetic Oils
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THANKS DUDE. We grately appreicate your post. We have received many postive posts from different forums, In fact we went out tonight and purchased all the valvoline we needed.
As for Amsoil it is a good product, the problem for us is their marketing ways and this question brought out part of their ways. Also my husband has been very familiar with Amsoil since close to its beginning. This Amsoil person jumped up with a bunch of talk before he found out who he was talking to. He is not alone. My husband refuses to buy from companies that use this type of marketing. It reminds me of Amway.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/12/2003
09:54:05
| Amsoil Apology
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My apology to anyone who migh have been offended by any of my posts, especially "mrsbaddakota". I have fallen victim on this forum to some people that like to "Bait and Flame", so I overreacted this time.
This is a FACT: There are a "few" overzealous Independent Amsoil Dealers and I find them to be an embar"ass"ment. Unfortunately Amsoil has no way to monitor everything that is said and/or posted by Independent Dealers, but they have revoked the "Dealer" priviledge many times in the past.
I for one continue to educate myself and understand as much as there is to know about the lubrication industry (even attending non-Amsoil conferences and seminars). You will never find me over-promoting or bashing another product, unless when the case is necessary such as something that might be harmful to the engine (Slick 50, zMax, MMO, etc.).
Amsoil is not the choice of everyone and if you choose to not use Amsoil that is fine. Many vehicle owners have driven 100's of thousands of miles using conventional "dino" oil. However, automobile companies and engine manufacturers have been building smaller engines with greater horsepower, and these engines need the added protection of Synthetic Oil. That is why many Owners Manuals now recommend that only synthetic oil be used.
Once again I am reminded ... oil is like a religion. And here on www.dodgedakotas.com we are basically divided into two groups. Those that really want to learn and buy what is best for their truck (be it Amsoil or something else), and those that just want to see their own words in print. Bait and Flame.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/13/2003
11:47:17
| Amsoil vs. Valvoline
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First, when anyone has ever asked me to compare Amsoil vs "______", I make every attempt to be fair and unbiased. I have recommended Mobil1 to those that still believe they should change their oil every 3k miles. I have recommended Castrol Syntec (hydrocracked dino - and NOT a true synthetic) to those that still believe that synthetics are bad.
So here I go ... with blunt honesty:
Valvoline Synthetic uses a Group III base oil, so it's not technically a synthetic, but hydrocracked dino (PRETEND SYNTHETIC), and there really is no comparison between it and Amsoil, which is a TRUE SYNTHETIC (other than it's XL-7500 line that is).
Valvoline's additive package is pretty weak, while Amsoil's is very good. Long drain intervals are Amsoil's big selling feature, and I would not want to chance going long intervals with Valvoline, as I don't believe it would handle it very well. If you remain with Valvoline, your oil should be changed often and regularly.
A TRUE synthetic uses either the Group IV or Group V base oil, or a mix of the two, plus their own unique additives package. As a matter of fact, I don't think any of the TRUE synthetics use all of one, they mix a combination of both. Group IV is PAOs (Polyalfaolefins) while Group IV is the esters.
If you insist on using a NON-SYNTHETIC ... I would recommend Castrol or Amsoil XL-7500 over the Valvoline. Both the Castrol and Amsoil hold up better as per my interpretations of Used Oil Analysis' (UOA's) on all three.
IMHO ... Amsoil XL-7500 and Castrol put up some of the best UOA's within the hydrocracked Group III Oils. NOTE TO THE FLAMERS: I made positive comments about Mobil1 and CASTROL.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AMS Dude
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2003
08:31:19
| RE: Valvoline Synthetic Oils
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Cant you see that they are screwing with you. mrbaddakota standing behind mrsbaddakota at the computor, come on dear tell that sob that I dont like the way he is marketing his product, it really pisses me off. Tell him that I would not buy his products, come on dear cant you type faster? I would rather buy an inferior product because I am a bone head.
Just my take on things.
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FlameAway
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2003
03:17:11
| RE: Valvoline Synthetic Oils
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DISCLAIMER: I don't pretend to know anything about anything.
Can anyone without a conflict of interest (sorry, that leaves you out Amsoil guy) show some reputable documentation that shows Group III synthetics with comparable additive packages to be inherently inferior to Group IVs in terms of real-world performance? And yes I've looked on BITOG and found no clear consensus.
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Hank2001
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2003
15:40:35
| RE: Valvoline Synthetic Oils
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I think I read that the AMSoil Guy said Castrol was good Group 3, whatever that is. At least he said someting good about a product other than AMSoil so why don't you cut him some slack.
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Hank2001
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2003
15:42:59
| RE: Valvoline Synthetic Oils
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--------------- AND
I think who ever posted using the name mrsbaddakota is a fake and was looking to start a fight. My 2 cents.
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FlameAway
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2003
18:04:50
| RE: Valvoline Synthetic Oils
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Hank2001 - My question was not "What's a good G.III syn?" or "How does one G.III compare to another?". Amsoil guy (among others) implies that GIIIs are inferior (across the board) to G.IV/G.V synthetics. I actually don't have a problem with him - AFAIK the bulk of what he says is factually correct. My original question stands.
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FlameAway
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2003
18:12:19
| RE: Valvoline Synthetic Oils
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"I think who ever posted using the name mrsbaddakota is a fake and was looking to start a fight."
Perhaps, but it usually takes two to tango and in this instance AmsoilSponsor was all too eager to dance (which to his credit he admitted).
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Dr. D
Dodge Dakota
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11/18/2003
20:42:25
| RE: Valvoline Synthetic Oils
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To quote Dude :
By the way AmsoilSponsor, GE will only allow its users to use Mobil in some of their biggest and baddest jet engines (ex. DC-10). It's night and day difference between then and now, and car vs. jet engine, but it's true.
Dr. D's reply :
There is a big difference between Mobil Turbine engine oil and Mobil1 ..... and I should know !
Dr. D
Former GE and Sikorsky Technician and ...... Current AMSOIL user !
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