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GraphiteDak
GenIII
 
10/29/2003
19:52:21
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 Subject: Removed the CLutch Fan
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I removed the Clutch fan on my '03 Dakota yesterday then drove up the mountains from Phoenix to Payson, AZ.
The truck ran fine. May have had some more power on the hills without the fan.
The temp gauge drops down to just above the bottom line except when pulling hills, then it hit between 1/3 and 1/2 on the gauge.
I searched on the forum and found several people with the tow package such as mine say they went thru several summers with no overheating. And they just left the fan control stock, coming on with A/C or on at approx 200 degrees without running the A/C.
My next mod will be to build a circuit to engage the fan relay at approx 180 degrees. I'll have to reach in my boxes of electronic parts and build something. I'll post the circuit after I build it. Should be able to buy most of the parts at Radio Shack (circuit board, comparitor IC's, etc) except for maybe the thermistor.
This circuit would be easy to make adjustable too.
Oh yeah. I filled my tank in Payson. Then drove down averaging 75 MPH. Most of it highway driving except for the 10 miles or so on Shea BLVD (stoplight to stoplight) to the next highway. I even raced a guy at a light on Shea who thought his fart can Civic was bad (I killed him) and then filled up again on the West side of Phoenix.
I got 19.1 MPG. My truck is rated at 18 and I barely got that before with my driving. This mod may have helped the MPG.
2003 Graphite QC 4X4 4.7 Auto 3.55
Home Brewed Cold Air Intake, Flowmaster 40 series, Modified TPS to .72VDC, Modified IAT. 160° T-Stat.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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10/29/2003
21:30:37
| RE: Removed the CLutch Fan
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So now you have just the electric fan????? Is it quieter???
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jeremiah2360
Dodge Dakota
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10/29/2003
23:03:20
| RE: Removed the CLutch Fan
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.boB-You don`t get the fan roar when it`s first started anymore. That`s about it.
Graphite-It will be interesting to see what you come up with. I`m running a flex-a-lite adjustable thermostatic switch from the battery to the green wire off of fan. PCM still controls fan, this mod just turns it on sooner. Works great if you don`t mind the fan running for a while after shut-down.(at least the motor doesn`t cook, just the battery)
03 qc 4.7 auto 4x4 20k
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
10/30/2003
00:09:19
| RE: Removed the CLutch Fan
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Oops. I was moving files around on my website to clean it up and killed my photo above.
Oh well.
I only drove it yesterday and didn't hear any roar. It usually does that in the mornings and then it pretty much free wheeled the rest of the time except when going up big hills in the summer.
What I plan on using will be a thermistor in the radiator. I'll have to look at the radiator tomarrow and see if there is anything I can thread in there. If there is I'll go to the parts store and get a temp sending unit and map out the thermistor's resistance values so I can build a circuit. It if doesn't have any place to do that I'll probably just insert a thermistor (I allready have) into the fins of the radiator.
So once I get that part figured out I can build a very simply comparitor circuit. This is using a comparitor IC that you give a reference point on one input and feed the other input the signal derived from the thermistor in the radiator with other resisters. Basically you can set a REFERENCE point for temp, make it adjustable if you want and then when the input from the thermistor circuit reaches or exceeds that it will switch on the output of the comparitor IC.
Then I'll drive a transistor from that and a few diodes I can switch the factory relay that's in the stock relay box without interfering with the PCM or anything. The A/C will still be able to engage the relay, the PCM could if it was over 200 degrees or whatever it's set for, and my circuit will bring it on which I suppose I will aim for 170 to 180 degrees. I've allready had a 160 t-stat in my truck for over a month and no problems. I may bump that back up to a 170 or 180.
I'll post a schematic when I do this. Should be within the next few days.
2003 Graphite QC 4X4 4.7 Auto 3.55
Home Brewed Cold Air Intake, Flowmaster 40 series, Modified TPS to .72VDC, Modified IAT. 160° T-Stat.
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FLDak
Dodge Dakota
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10/30/2003
11:20:57
|  RE: Removed the CLutch Fan
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GraphiteDak;
I did the samething jeremiah2360 did with the Flex-a-lite Adjustable Temp Control switch PN#31147, it takes all the science out of it unless you are just into that. No need to re-invent the wheel.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
10/30/2003
12:15:58
| RE: Removed the CLutch Fan
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Yeah. I'm "into that" I guess.
I have pretty much all the parts I need to build my own fan control from scratch. It's easier than it sounds as long as you know how to use transistors and IC's etc.
The good thing about this is I could make it small enough to HIDE it somewhere and route my wires in the stock looms and into the stock relay box. This way all I have to do when I take it in to the dealer (which is every 3000 miles with my included service package) I can just wiz on that fan before I go so they don't know what I've done to my truck.
Speaking of, has anyone taken their truck into their dealer with the clutch fan off running only on the electric? I just don't want them to like DOCUMENT somewhere that they saw the FAN missing. That would be BAD if something ever happened even un related. I hear too many horror stories here about Dodge dealers and waranties!
2003 Graphite QC 4X4 4.7 Auto 3.55
Home Brewed Cold Air Intake, Flowmaster 40 series, Modified TPS to .72VDC, Modified IAT. 160° T-Stat.
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jeremiah2360
Dodge Dakota
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10/30/2003
19:16:32
| RE: Removed the CLutch Fan
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LOL, I`d like to see their faces when they see that CAI of yours. Man they`ll think your thermostat is stuck with that 160 in there too. Wont`t they notice the IAT was altered as well? Why put the fan back your not getting any warranty work done anyways you maniac.
Well I hope you have a sense of humor Graphite, no offense. I brought mine in for warranty work and they made note of three things;
One, I "by-passed" my cooling system with the thermostatic switch. I told them the PCM still controls the system, it`s just for extra cooling when towing. I knew they wouldn`t like it but didn`t want to go through hassle of hiding it. If it becomes an issue with any warranty work I`ll fight that battle if I have too.
Two, I welded a drain plug on the trans pan. I didn`t want to get stuck with paying for a new trans so for $35.00 I bought a new pan.
Three, (this pissed me off big time) I altered the rear differential. "Somebody messed with it", was what the service writer said. I explained that it states in the manual you have to change to synthetic if you tow, so I did. Then I brought it in for a rear pinion seal leak. Over the phone the service writer said it was the cover leaking and wouldn`t honor warranty because someone didn`t do a good job with sealant, it looked "globby". Now I knew it was the pinion seal and got the service manager on the phone and stated that the tech should check it again. They called back and said they would do me a favor and replace the pinion seal under warranty. I said why replace the pinion seal if it isn`t leaking! I was talking pretty angry at this point because of this BS being flung at me and then they said it was leaking the last time I had the truck in. Thats when I really lost it. Unbelievable.
If they ever saw the fan off.......
Anyways to make a long post monotonous I ended up talking to the general manager about what happened. He said they would change their records to show the pan is back to "normal" and the differential was not "messed with" but changed "as per manual". He also said that these changes would not be in a national dealer database anyways, just in theirs. I even asked him, "if I went to a different dealer they wouldn`t know?", he said no. I don`t believe it and will try to verify by asking another dealer if they would check the computer for me.
I still go there because I hope at least I will receive the benefit of the doubt and no BS in the future. The Devil you know.
Keep up the good work Graphite. (I didn`t understand what the hell you were talking about with the thermistor thingy, but good luck)
03 qc 4.7 auto 4x4 20k
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
10/30/2003
20:35:17
| RE: Removed the CLutch Fan
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Man what a hassle that must have been!
The dealer I go to seems to be pretty cool. The IAT was allready moved and the CAI was allready on. They didn't seem to care and were pretty cool when I talked to them.
I hear that every dealer can be different.
Anyway, I just got done doing my prototype for the fan controller. I had to do it different than I originally thought and had to use a seperate relay to switch on the fan (the OEM relay will still switch it on too).
So what I did was I poked into the wire on the temp sending unit that's in the front top of the engine. I watched the voltage and it would be around 1 volt when it got around 180 degrees or so and would go up to about 1.2 volts when it cooled down to around 170 or so.
Then I built a small circuit board with a comparitor IC on it. I used a potentiometer to adjust the reference input to around 1.1 volts or so and then temporarily hooked up a wire from that temp sensor in the engine thru a resistor then into the other input on my comparitor IC. Then I hooked the output of the IC to a small transitor to switch on my fan relay.
I hooked it all up with juper wires and the such to test it. I monitored both the input voltage from the temp sensor and the temp of the radiator itself with my temp probe and watched it turn the fan on and off pretty much like I wanted.
The only bad thing so far was it bounces the relay on a few times real quick when the output first switches but I can fix that by adding to my circuit.
Here's what it looks like so far...
The protptype of my fan control.
This is the wire on the temp sending unit that I will splice into. I just have a allegator clip poked thru for testing.
Here I am testing the results.
The control is laying on the battery temporarily connected and I am monitoring the voltage from the sending unit with the meter on the left and temp of the radiator with the meter on the right.
It did work like that. Not shown is the relay I allready bolted to the inside fender. I ran fused wire to the battery to the relay and from the relay I spliced into the fan wire.
I'll work on it some more later and when done I'll post my results.
2003 Graphite QC 4X4 4.7 Auto 3.55
Home Brewed Cold Air Intake, Flowmaster 40 series, Modified TPS to .72VDC, Modified IAT. 160° T-Stat.
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2003 black
Dodge Dakota
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10/31/2003
15:34:27
|  RE: Removed the CLutch Fan
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how did you remove the fan? I tried putting a pipe wrench on the bolt and turning counter clockwise. I use a 2x4 and a hammer to give the wrench a few wackes, but the pulley just spins. How do i stop the pulley from spinning? I tried sticking a screwdriver in the pulley plus some WD for the nut.
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/31/2003
15:54:47
| RE: Removed the CLutch Fan
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Graphite Dak,
You've got a lot of time on your hands, don't you?
Good. Because whatever you fab for a 'thermostatic switch' is really just overkill on these 4.7's, especially with the towing package radiator, etc. With a 180 t-stat, no belt fan, and everything stock on the system, it works just fine. You do know that the belt fan really doesn't do anything when moving over about 20-30mph?
But, I'm sure it will work too.
2003 Black, If you put a phillips scredriver thry the hole in the pulley, then seat against the water pumpo housing, and tap the nut using a pipe wrench, or the correct size on, and a 2x4 perpendicular the the end of the wrench, it should come right off.
Or, you could buy an expensive tool, to use once!
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
11/01/2003
01:21:06
| RE: Removed the CLutch Fan
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The belt slipped on me too. Then I put a vise-grip on the nut, then pushed down on the tensioner by hand and gave the vise-grips a WACK with the hammer and the nut turned and the fan spun right off.
I drove to Payson earlier this week with the fan off and only the PCM controlling the electric fan and it held it's own but got up near the half way mark.
I got my finished control on today. The hardest thing was hiding the wires that tied into the factory wiring harness so that the dealer wouldn't notice. The control would probably just look like a stereo accesory to them.
Now the gauge never goes over 1/3 and the fan cycles on and off.
Usually I don't have "a lot of time on my hands". I was however on vacation this week.
I'll post pics later tomorrow when I get home.
I'm going to be driving up the hill again and this will be a good test.
2003 Graphite QC 4X4 4.7 Auto 3.55
Home Brewed Cold Air Intake, Flowmaster 40 series, Modified TPS to .72VDC, Modified IAT. 160° T-Stat.
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stealthloader
Dodge Dakota
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11/08/2003
17:42:05
| RE: Removed the CLutch Fan
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I installed two imperial electric fans on my 94 Dakota, one in front of the condenser and the other on the radiator. The radiator cooling fan is controlled by a 1986 Nissan Maxima electric fan switch inserted in a copper tube in the upper hose that turns on the fan at 192, same temp as thermostat and condenser fan is hooked to the a/c clutch. Both have seperate relay circuits and over ride switches on the dash.
The only down side of using two fans is I had to install a bigger alt (165amp rating).
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tazzy
GenIII
12/29/2003
17:36:00
| RE: Removed the CLutch Fan
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Tried to install the thernister bulb in the rad neck as it says on the package..but i cant stop it leaking any advise....
thanks
Brass Cap& Rotor
K&N Home brew CAI
Full MSD6a
V-8 TB.
Superchips program
Crank Sensor Mod
Bullet Muffler
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jeremiah2360
Dodge Dakota
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12/29/2003
17:57:44
|  RE: Removed the CLutch Fan
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I have the 4.7 and put it the inlet side after rad cap toward the motor. It`s an aluminum neck there as opposed to the outlet side which is plastic.(also the recommended site) Didn`t want to chance cracking the plastic. Also used a Marine SS exhaust clamp.(tightens with a nut and bolt set-up) Works great, no leaks. Of course this may not apply to your V6 but hope it helps.
03 qc 4.7 auto 4x4 24k
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dakfan
Dodge Dakota
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4/23/2004
09:57:22
| RE: Removed the CLutch Fan
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i am installing 2 eletric fans in my 97 dak w/ 5.2l
how can i wire them in full time running without a switch off the battery?
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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4/23/2004
15:55:04
| RE: Removed the CLutch Fan
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You don't want the fans running all the time as they will suck a lot of power, create a lot of noise and shorten the life of the fans. Also, once you get going about 45MPH ram air should be enough to cool the engine and the fans don't need to be running. I had a dual fan setup on a hot rod and had to hot wire the fans to run all the time one day, I fixed it realy quick since I didn't like the fan noise all the time.
The best way to run the fans is to run 2 thermostatic fan controllers, one set to 185-190 degrees and the other one set to 190-200 degrees, or what ever combination is a little hotter then your coolant thermostat like 195-200 and 200-210 for a 190 degree cooolant thermostat. This way your not running the single fan unless the engine needs a little cooling and your not running both fans unless the engine needs a lot of cooling .
Your sitting at a traffic light in August and the engine starts to warm up so the first fan kicks on at 195, it's a real long light and the pavements sizzeling, so the second fan kicks on at 200 since the first fan couldn't flow enough air to cool the engine.
If you want to run them both all the time anyway, just connect a relay to a spot in the fuse box that gets power only when the engine is running, not accessory or battery.
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another mark
Dodge Dakota
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4/23/2004
18:23:08
| RE: Removed the CLutch Fan
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It's easy to take the factory fan off. At least for me it was. Get a 36mm wrench, put it on the bolt and give it a hit or two with a hammer. That's it. No 2x4s or other pieces of wood are needed. You don't have to worry about the spinning pulley, the whack you give it while the wrench is on it loosens it. You don't have to wedge the fan in place either. I didn't. I removed mine 5 years after buying the truck and it came off that simply. Maybe I'm just lucky though. I also put a little WD40 on the nut first. The wrench cost me a whopping $18, whoop de do. At least I can always easily reinstall the fan if needed.
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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4/23/2004
20:56:12
| RE: Removed the CLutch Fan
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Pipe wrench worked on mine. :-)
But, I have to run the clutch since it will engage and cool the engine at 80MPH when it's 125 degrees outside.
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dakfan
Dodge Dakota
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5/05/2004
09:29:07
| RE: Removed the CLutch Fan
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thanx, but i just installed a themostat that turns em both on at 85
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
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5/05/2004
10:24:53
|  RE: Removed the CLutch Fan
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DSW,
You mean you still have the fan clutch, but no fan, and it still cools better?
How,
If, you're still running the fan clutch, you still have some weight that the motor is overcoming, small yes, but you still will get a little more results by taking the whole thing off.
I guess I don't understand your comment, cuz surely you didn't just leave the fan clutch on.
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jeremy
Dodge Dakota
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5/05/2004
21:17:48
| RE: Removed the CLutch Fan
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I had to cut the nut off with a dremel tool.
he's right though if you still have the clutch fan on your defeating the purpose.
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