| From | Message |
Troy
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/29/2003
10:34:26
|
 Subject: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
I have searched the posts and can't find what I'm looking for, so any help would be appreciated. I am wanting to really help the low-end torque on my 2003 4.7. Are the HO cams going to help this a good bit? I want to improve in the 2,000-3,500 rpm range. Also, any other ideas to help in this range would be appreciated. By the way, do the cams help, hurt, or keep fuel mileage about the same. Thanks to all who help.
2003 4.7
180 Robertshaw stat
Redline water wetter
removed clutch fan
electric fan on thermal switch
custom "true" cold-air intake
3" single muffler
|
McyMike
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/29/2003
11:16:19
|  RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
I have the same truck / questions too. Want to go to the KRC 206. Haven't been able to contact Marty. I do know that the MOPAR cams have more duration than the KRC so that should mean more low down torque. Would like an answer on what to expect gas mileage to do with either cam under normal driving.
|
.alex.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/29/2003
13:45:02
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
If you want to boost your low-end torque, but you are not interested in all-out racing power (pulling a trailer for instance), then stick with the KRC 200 cams. Those are the same thing as the Jeep HO cams that you can order from the dealer. I wouldn't even worry with the HO manifold.
If you want a little more power all the way through the band (2000-5000 or higher) the KRC 206 cams are a better choice.
If you decide on the 206's, you will only see the full benefit of the cams with the addition of the HO intake manifold. Otherwise you will just be throwing away money by running the 206's by themselves.
|
CThomp
*GenIII*
4/29/2003
14:21:43
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
Did KRC ever figure out how much rwhp the 206 cams make over the 200's?
|
Chris
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/29/2003
14:22:57
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
I think it was not too much.
|
.alex.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/29/2003
14:46:48
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
Looks like about 12-14 hp and at least 20 lb of tq over the HO cams.
Basically you are looking at 25 rwhp and 40 lb of rwtq over stock by adding these 206 cams.
And those numbers reflect the lack of a PCM flash. With a proper flash, those numbers are almost garanteed to be bigger.
|
CThomp
*GenIII*
4/29/2003
14:57:08
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
Thats pretty damn good. Now only if compcams or crane would come out with some cams for comparison.
|
.alex.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/29/2003
15:04:41
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
Psssst..... guess who's grinding these for Marty?
|
Demon Dakota
DakotaEnthusiast
4/29/2003
16:02:01
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
Probably Comp Cams...
K&N Drop in AF (CAI during summer months)
True Dual exhaust and removed third cat
HO Cams & HO Intake
FASTMAN 70mm TB
Autolite 3923 Plugs
TPS @ .76 VDC
IAT Adjuster Mod
14.52@94.2 MPH at Silver Dollar Raceway
|
.alex.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/29/2003
16:15:02
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
Actually, I think it might be Crane, but all the same.....
Wonder if you could take the specs to Crane, get custom grinds, buy the necessary springs, lash caps, & retainers, and beat Marty's price?
Anyone care to price all that out & see how it compares to Marty's price on the 206 "kit"?
|
MCW82
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/29/2003
16:26:42
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
Once the HO cams and manifold are installed, is there anything else that needs to be adjusted, tuned, blown up, etc?
Does the PCM need to be reset?
|
.alex.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/29/2003
16:46:21
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
Even if you don't reset the PCM, it will learn that the truck has grown larger nutz after about 200+ miles.
A PCM flash by a custom tuner will do your truck a world of good, anyhow. Do a search on the Kenne Bell Optimizer flash. You'll see.....
|
Demon Dakota
DakotaEnthusiast
4/29/2003
16:53:09
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
Well, we shouldn't be able to beat Marty's price b/c he would be ordering more cams at a lower price per unit, but then again...who knows.
K&N Drop in AF (CAI during summer months)
True Dual exhaust and removed third cat
HO Cams & HO Intake
FASTMAN 70mm TB
Autolite 3923 Plugs
TPS @ .76 VDC
IAT Adjuster Mod
14.52@94.2 MPH at Silver Dollar Raceway
|
CThomp
*GenIII*
4/29/2003
17:05:15
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
Weren't there PCM problems with the 206 cams? If so have they been worked out? Or was it just that you need to have the HO manifold?
|
Demon Dakota
DakotaEnthusiast
4/29/2003
17:10:59
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
I don't think that Marty said exactly what the cause was for the dropoff in power. It could be the stock intake...who knows.
K&N Drop in AF (CAI during summer months)
True Dual exhaust and removed third cat
HO Cams & HO Intake
FASTMAN 70mm TB
Autolite 3923 Plugs
TPS @ .76 VDC
IAT Adjuster Mod
14.52@94.2 MPH at Silver Dollar Raceway
|
.alex.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/29/2003
17:27:33
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
After a little research on my part and discussions with Marty, I am pretty well convinced that it's the PCM that's at fault. The problem was that the power curve should have peaked at about 4000 to 4500 rpm. Instead, from about 4000 to 5000, there was this big DIP in the hp curve. My dip occurs between 4500 and 5200. Matt Barret's curve dips in the same exact place. The dip occurs on dyno graphs from every 4.7 truck I've seen. The more mods you have installed, the worse the dip gets. There is a dip on the HO intake manifold trucks and a dip on the non-HO manifold trucks. Where they occur is about 500 rpm apart between the two (HO's at 4500, stockers at 4000), but the moral of the is, I think the PCM is pulling timing out at that point.
It is in anticipation of the shift that the automatic trannies have to make at about 5000 at WOT. If you were to drive an auto-tranny truck and have it making full-power at WOT and shifting at 5200 rpm, eventually it would make a mess of the tranny. That equates to warrnty repairs, and that's cash out of Mopar's pocket. Therefore, they have retarded the timing at around 4000-4500 to soften the shift on the automatics to save themselves money in the long run.
Sucks for us, rules for them.
End result: find a better flash, because even the almighty Leach Flash has missed the boat on this one. Neither Me nor Matt Barret were able to overcome "The Dip" with our identical set-ups. We've pretty much got identical dyno graphs (expcet mine is still running rich in the top rpms).
That, in a long-winded nut-shell is what happened with the KRC206 dyno testing. Once we can overcome the dip, the numbers on those cams will be a lot more than just 12hp/20tq. I garantee it.
|
CThomp
*GenIII*
4/29/2003
22:21:01
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
Damn dip...there was some schmoe on the V8 board proclaiming that his bro-inlaw or something like that could tune 4.7L pcm's. I wonder what happened to that guy.
But then again my girlfriends-uncles-brothers-ex-wifes old roommate said the same but i'm not sure if I believe it.
This is killin me.
|
graphiteRT
R/T
4/29/2003
23:01:31
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
Actually my bro-in-law is kind of a deadbeat, so I'll be doing the tuning myself. Probably use a HO cammed truck since it's the only guy I know locally with a 4.7 and hopefully start this weekend.
As a backup plan, we have a guy back east working with the HO stuff too and he's got a few thousand hours of tuning experience on the Dodge computers, so pretty much just a matter of time now.......but thanks for the vote of confidence.
Bob
'01 Graphite CC R/T, MP headers, Magnaflow muffler into 'Cuda style exhaust, M1 2bbl, ported 2.02 R/T heads, custom grind cam, Crower SS rockers, Paxton Novi2000, Boyd's 20s w/Dunlop SP9000s, Featured in April '03 Sport Truck, Viper 4 wheel discs
|
CThomp
*GenIII*
4/30/2003
07:54:59
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
Nah it wasn't you grapite...it was someone not registered. Speed something was his name. He was talkin like mopar was about to start up performance pcm production for the 4.7L.
|
graphiteRT
R/T
4/30/2003
11:02:51
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
Mopar isn't doing anymore performance PCMs. They are leaving that to the aftermarket. Not to say they won't buy somebody's development work later, but they won't be doing any themselves.
Bob
'01 Graphite CC R/T, MP headers, Magnaflow muffler into 'Cuda style exhaust, M1 2bbl, ported 2.02 R/T heads, custom grind cam, Crower SS rockers, Paxton Novi2000, Boyd's 20s w/Dunlop SP9000s, Featured in April '03 Sport Truck, Viper 4 wheel discs
|
Troy
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/30/2003
11:55:43
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
Can anyway help me out with the original question regarding fuel mileage?
|
CThomp
*GenIII*
4/30/2003
12:08:08
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
Troy: The HO cams are excellent for low-end torque. You'll get lots. From what most people have said the cams either did not effect their mpg's and a few said their mpg's actually went up a little. Go figure.
|
Chris
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/30/2003
12:43:12
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
HO cams alone: mileage up
HO Cams and HO intake, mileage no different.
But that is my truck with my driving. Youre results may be a little different, but at any rate I say go for it. Cams alone and you will be very happy...
Chris
|
.alex.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/30/2003
13:01:21
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
If you don't change your driving habits, you will not suffer any loss from your current mpg. If you start to really enjoy your new power curve and always stomp the loud pedal, then your mpg will drop. As it is, I have lots of mods on my 4.7 and I can still get 21.5 mpg on a 55mph highway.
|
Troy
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/30/2003
15:00:32
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
Thanks alot for the requested information. I guess I'll be buying the cams pretty soon. I'm not sure about the intake just yet. Thanks again.
|
graphiteRT
R/T
4/30/2003
15:05:51
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
Do any of you have the detailed cam specs for the KRC 206 cam? I would assume that's a Comp Cam grind, but not sure and prefer not to guess.
If you have these specs, can you forward the info to bob@coralfarms.com It will help with a PCM tuning project.
Thanks
Bob
'01 Graphite CC R/T, MP headers, Magnaflow muffler into 'Cuda style exhaust, M1 2bbl, ported 2.02 R/T heads, custom grind cam, Crower SS rockers, Paxton Novi2000, Boyd's 20s w/Dunlop SP9000s, Featured in April '03 Sport Truck, Viper 4 wheel discs
|
McyMike
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/30/2003
15:23:41
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
Alex,
Spoke with Marty today. He indicated that the problem was with the "test" truck (yours?) and not an issue any more. I'm hearing different on the post. I was looking at the 206 cams to get a little more performance from 2500 RPM to the natural PCM shutoff. I dont race at the strip, I don't 4 wheel, I do tow a boat one in a while, but I would like to run a respectable race with a V6 camaro or mustang now and then..... I feel like I have enough low end torque. Again, would like to spread that out from 2500 - 5500. Would appreciate your comments.
Truck: 2003/4.7/QC/4WD
3.92/Gibson and K&N
5 speed AUTO
|
.alex.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/30/2003
15:41:05
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
The test truck belongs to Kicker01, not me. Nobody has been able to post dyno numbers or quarter mile time slips to attest to the 206 cams abilities. The last we heard was the they would be tweaking on the test truck and making some exhaust changes and soem computer changes.
That's the last I heard, and that's been a while. Sounds like I need to call Marty myself.
If it was me, I would not spend $550 for the occasional race with a V6 Mustang. You would do just fine with the HO cams and the HO intake (the factory Jeep parts). And you'd end up saving about $250 or more.
Once i have my 206's installed, along with some other parts, I am looking to drop to at least a 14.00 and maybe look for an occasional 13.9x but that may be pipe dreams at this point.
|
CThomp
*GenIII*
5/01/2003
07:37:27
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
I'd probably get the 206's but i'm very focused on suspension right now. Just ordered my active suspension the other day. Next is the hotchkis tvs and then the hurst shifter. I've got some in the motor but now i'm all over the place. Time to feel stable.
|
kicker01
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/01/2003
15:11:09
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
Hey Guys,
The 206 cams yield a nice increase if you have all the basic mods before hand like .alex. said.
I believe once the PCM problem is solved, the truck will produce some some good dyno #'s and et's. Also the truck is a 2001 and unfortunately is cursed with the death flash and still has stock manifolds and precats, all of which will be addressed in time. How does 300rwhp NA sound? I think its possible...
Cya,
Steve
|
graphiteRT
R/T
5/01/2003
15:18:27
| RE: 4.7 cams and torque
IP: Logged
Message:
Steve, do you have a detailed cam sheet for that KRC206? Not just the intake/exhaust duration and lift, but the detailed timing events?
I can probably help you with the PCM issues, but I need some data to start from. Email me offline bob@coralfarms.com if you happen to have that sheet.
Thanks.
Bob
'01 Graphite CC R/T, MP headers, Magnaflow muffler into 'Cuda style exhaust, M1 2bbl, ported 2.02 R/T heads, custom grind cam, Crower SS rockers, Paxton Novi2000, Boyd's 20s w/Dunlop SP9000s, Featured in April '03 Sport Truck, Viper 4 wheel discs
|
| | P 1 |
|
Post a reply to this message:
Username Registration: Optional
All visitors are allowed to post messages
|
