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paysonbadboy
Dodge Dakota
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3/16/2003
17:03:50
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 Subject: RE: 2004 Lightning
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Hersbird, thanks for the in depth info. I may know alot about building engines and electronics, etc, but one place I am not educated enough about is how to not get screwed by the dealer when buying a car/truck.
Hopefully with some good info and KNOWING what people have paid for their rides could get me into something I want when I trade my car in this year.
As for Deep Dak, how is it your used and almost stock R/T with less than $1k into it (you didn't specify any exact mods except it be mechanically stock, cams, intake, exhaust, etc) claims to be in the low 14's while everyone else here with the same setup is still in the 15's? I know climate and altitude can make a big difference, but you are claiming your stock ride to be a little better than true.
I'm sure people would like to know what you have in it and how you are getting those results.
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Mike 99RT
Dodge Dakota
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3/16/2003
17:51:54
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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Am I being ignored? I run 12s and have spent 23,000. I will smoke a more expensive lightning. Get a life PAYSONBADBOY. You should change your name to LightningBoyToy. Leave Deep Dak alone and go blow a lightning owner
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DeepDak
Dodge Dakota
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3/16/2003
17:52:31
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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Message:
paysonbadboy,
Well, I never said my intake was stock. Here's what has worked for me:
F&B TB, Flowmaster muffler, Mopar computer, M1, and R/T heads.
Brand new all this would cost well over a $1,000, but I got all these parts used (in excellent condition). Luck, PATIENCE, and good networking got me all this for a grand.
My truck still has a stock cam, stock gears, stock stall converter, stock rockers, sucky dunlops(came with truck), etc. My truck isn't stock, but it also isn't modded to the max. This is what has worked for me and Eric (kota on 20s) and Brig (Daker777) were there to support. I should hit high 13s naturally aspirated with a good cam and header combo! This might cost me $500-700 depending on parts, which brings my grand total to $15,700.
Good luck to all and don't let some of these Dakota haters get you down. Naturally aspirated mid 13s to low 14s are possible and how many lightnings can say that! I'd like to see what a L runs without the supercharger.
Eli
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DeepDak
Dodge Dakota
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3/16/2003
18:02:21
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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Message:
Mike,
Sweet time, I hope to run 12s some day! But I'll need the help of the funny gas to get there. I also have a '99. ;)
Eli
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Right
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/16/2003
18:23:01
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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Message:
Sure you do, Mike...
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Daker777
Dodge Dakota
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3/16/2003
18:42:03
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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Ok, yes DEEPDAK DOES run low 14s with his setup. And most other r/ts will run very similar and DO.
I recently ran a 14.5 equivalent had a 2.4 60 ft with a 15 et- track was "moist" from the rain with 1k in my Club cab, and Without a real intake. I just stripped my truck after selling the scer/alky injection etc. This was with m1, headers, a used 200dollar 52mm tb and a mopar PCM. That is 1k dollars out of my pocket, and easily mid 14s in a CC with a very falked up tranny- my fault. Add, the racing tranny, stall, heads, and NX, and it is a low 12 second cc daily driver. That is a total of 3000. Sure I dont have a warranty, but I have personally seen a neighbor of mine get refused warranty work on his L because it was mildly modified- intake, chip, lower pully. EVERY DEALERSHIP will refuse warranty service for modified vehicles, if they can.
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Mike 99RT
Dodge Dakota
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3/16/2003
20:53:27
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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Message:
What do you mean, "Sure I do". I have the time slips to prove it. A 12.865 in 71 degree weather at Silverdollardragway in Reynolds GA. I hate how you can put any user name in, It would be nice to now the bitches that just through in stupid comments and are to afraid to let you know how they are. RIGHT?
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Deep Dak
Dodge Dakota
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3/16/2003
22:36:36
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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Message:
Mike,
Just humor them. You have to remember that folks who do this were born without an important set between their legs!
Eli
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D
GenIII
3/17/2003
01:47:23
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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Message:
xplixt...hit me up with an email, I'm looking at
buying a turbo xs UTEC chip pretty soon but
am always on the lookout for connections.
Mike D...just got back from a Vegas trip 260
miles of fun. great cars
2003 WRX
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paysonbadboy
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/17/2003
18:22:08
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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Message:
DeepDak
thanks for explaining what you had in your truck in detail.
That made more sense knowing what you had rather than the impression that there was basically nothing done to the truck and that it did 14's. I see a lot of people with stock R/T's ask how to even get low 15's so I wanted to make sure someone wasn't just saying how fast their stock R/T was just because they hated Fords.
I actually like both FOrd and Dodge and always have had much, much respect for all Dodge small blocks and big blocks and they have been known to outlast pretty much everything out there due to the better engineering on the bottom end vs. Chevy's weak bottom end and Ford's descent bottom end. I've had everything in my family and myself. My old 360 (.030 over and carberated) ran awesome but sucked gas like no tomorrow.
We've had Dodge engines do over 200k miles before smoking and still NO NOISE from the bearings. Some of our Fords the same thing, (351 Winsor, etc). I don't have a Lightning but respect the power Ford gives with a waranty. Not many companies do that these days. A Lightning is impractical for me and my family so I'd sooner buy a Dakota Quad Cab.
It's too bad there's some punks who frequent the forums. As for me, I can't resist but to ask what people have when they claim there's does much better than the average. The honest ones here don't seem to mind my asking.
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00R/T-03Cobra
Dodge Dakota
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3/17/2003
18:38:37
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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What does the a stock R/T run with a good set of DR's? My buddy's dad knocked 7 tenths of a second off of his ET with the 555R's. Iv pulled a 14.8 with just a shaker hood and PCM on the stock rubbers in my R/T. I dont know if I'm a better driver or I just have a stronger truck but low 14's, atleast I wouldnt think, would be very tough at all with a good set of sticky tires with a ramair/air induction system, of some sort, and PCM. Atleast it seems that way.
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Tony
Dodge Dakota
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3/17/2003
20:14:44
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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I think the problem with the Dakota is the rear-end.I drove one and every time i got on it , it seems like it jump to much trying to get traction. I decided to go with the Ford Harley Davidson 02. I also have 79 little Red Express , which ran 14.5-14.8 also had a 63 Chev 409 , timed at 14.8-15.2
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00R/T-03Cobra
Dodge Dakota
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3/17/2003
20:25:47
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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about my post... (my buddys dads truck was a lightening though I forgot to mention)
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Robert
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2003
10:29:20
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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Message:
Mike 99RT
Those are some pretty intelligent posts above. Whats with the name calling? What are you like 12?
If you truly believed that the R/T is, or has the potential to be, faster than a lightning for less than what the lightning costs then you wouldn't be on here talking all this smack. The lightning is fastest now and is only going to get faster in years to come. I have no reason to doubt you run 12s. But I ran a best 12.7 with K&N intake, smaller pulley, chip, slicks , and larger mass air flow sensor, all from Steeda except the slicks. Something tells me you spent more to get into the 12s. This was at Moroso motorsports park in about 75 degree weather.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2003
11:33:04
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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You may have to add more money and parts to a stock Dakota to run 12's comparedt to a Lightning, but you certainly don't have to spend more overall. The L costs a good $10,000 more then a RC R/T, you can add parts to tha R/T and still never make up that initial $10,000 gap, never even come close to it. Mike 99R/T wasn't calling anybody names, if there was a post above like that it's because anybody can post under any name here, it really brings out the cowards.
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asdf
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2003
11:45:13
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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You tell 'em, Mr. Bird!
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Mike 99RT
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2003
12:50:38
|  RE: 2004 Lightning
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Message:
Thanks Bird.
Robert did you even read the posts before you ran your mouth. Like Bird said we have a 10,000 dollar head start. If I have 10,000 bucks for modding my truck I'd be in the 10s not 12s. Nice post Robert.
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Demon Dakota
DakotaEnthusiast
3/19/2003
16:27:57
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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The Lightning is a great truck, but the price difference between the two can easily make up the gap. R/T's are lighter, have more displacement, and if equally equipped, would be faster. But the point is moot b/c you're comparing grapes to watermelons.
K&N Drop in AF (CAI during summer months)
True Dual exhaust and removed third cat
HO Cams & HO Intake
FASTMAN 70mm TB
Autolite 3923 Plugs
TPS @ .76 VDC
IAT Adjuster Mod
14.52@94.2 MPH at Silver Dollar Raceway
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2003
21:56:34
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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Message:
Which is why the Hemi Ram or SRT-10 to 'L' comparision is so much better. If you want to talk stock to stock then the SRT-10 is going to smoke the current L, and we'll have to wait and see what the 2004 'L' production truck ends up being. If you want to compare based on cost then a Hemi Ram with the $4000 intercooled Kenne-belle system is going to be impossible to beat. Even after adding every possible option on a RC 2wd the Ram +$4000 supercharger will still be less then the current 'L' and you get an overall much nicer truck with many more options. If they ever put the Hemi in a Dakota of current size for the same $800 option it is over a 4.7 on the Ram, then even a stock the Dakota may hang with the 'L'. There is nothing wrong with the 'L' except the price. Maybe all this competition will make them up the performance on the 2004 w/o a price increase, everybody wins with good free market competition!
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Robert
Dodge Dakota
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3/20/2003
11:49:45
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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Explain to me why the SRT-10 vs Lightning comparison is so much better. You all keep talking about the 10,000 dollar head start you have with the R/T. OK then, I have a 20,000 head start with the Lightning compared to the SRT-10 with its estimated 50,000 dollar price tag. I buy the kenne bell uprade for my truck and I'm at 548hp and 630lb ft of torque. Wow, with that and the mods I have now I might see the 10s. If I remember correctly the viper venom 800 TWIN TURBO was pulling off low 10 second 1/4 mi. So really, how much faster do you think a supercharger is going to make that big, square SRT-10. With that 20,000 dollar head start I could probably see the 9s or who knows. Just face it guys, Dodge will always take the back seat to Ford.
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Daker777
Dodge Dakota
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3/20/2003
18:02:45
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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Heres the deal, the L is a damn fast truck. Can run even faster with a few simple mods. But any car can run fast for money. Heck I woulda got a lightning if they made one with more then two seats. But, now that I have my r/t i would never go back. I love to see L owners after they lose to another truck, really pisses them off. I dont like most of the owners of Ls, they are all diks and think they are the gods of the world because they spent 30k on a truck for a scer and 2 seats? If you like YOUR L so much, then why are you defending it on the DODGE DAKOTA FORUM. It has already been proven that the modded r/ts are faster then modded Ls, didnt you hear about the Lightning vs RT shootout? YA, the r/ts ended up beating most of the Ls. That is it, it is over- it was already proven. I like the lightnings and respect them, you are buying a fast truck when you get it. I dont like how they look, and like i said I have had nothing but problems with most owners. I also dont think you should BUY horsepower, If i wanted a car that was fast and everyone else knows its fast, I would spend my money elsewhere. I find joy in actually making a car fast, not just paying for it from the factory. How many L owners could actually work on their own truck? Probly not very many of them. Oh wells im done. Flame away, whatever a gotta do.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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3/20/2003
18:03:19
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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If you think a basically stock suspension 'L' with 548 HP will run 10's then you watched the "The Fast and the Furious" too many times. The SRT-10 will have about that much HP stock, and be running through a 6 speed manual. The price will not be $50,000 unless you are talking dealer gouged marked up price, and in that case the current 'L' compares at $35,000. The point was 'L' owners always try and throw out the price argument in comparing to a R/T, but now they will bring it back to compare to the SRT-10. Just wait until official pricing is out on both the 2004 L and the 2004 SRT-10 and then see just what the difference really is. Until then I still stand by the $22,000 Kenne-belle Hemi Ram as the best option, I guess with 515 HP and the same weight as the current 'L' it will run 10's too according to your estimates.
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Pessimist
Dodge Dakota
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3/20/2003
18:28:37
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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Except that there is no Kenne-belle Hemi Ram, and won't be for a very long time.
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Robert
Dodge Dakota
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3/20/2003
19:21:08
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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I dont understand why you guys get all worked up if you think your modded R/Ts are so much faster. You guys just can't face the facts and I can't argue with ignorance. Hersbird, I actually had a little respect for you and thought you knew what you were talking about until that last post. What makes you think it would have a problem? I dont know where you get your info from but I've seen several Lightnings with no suspension mods run in the 10s and 11s with no problems whatsoever. One of which had the exact same kenne bell upgrade I talkled about in my last post. I see plenty of R/Ts out at moroso trying to hang with the big boys, but they get humiliated just as you would Daker777. Oh and Daker777, I come to this site because I find it very amusing to read about all the time and money you guys put into your R/Ts to TRY and hang with the Lightnings. Later boys and girls.
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DeepDak
Dodge Dakota
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3/20/2003
21:56:36
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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Message:
Robert,
You Lightning owners are just like some Vette owners I know, too "girly" to get dirty. Who in there right mind would buy a truck costing over $31K?? You might be fast at the track, but that doesn't get any respect from me! The factory did all your work, or at least most of it. I give props to the guy who does some really work, not just change a pulley or plug in a chip.
Besides the Lightning is plain ugly, looks fat and round. The dakota's lines are lean and muscular. But I guess if your the "girly" type of guy, you'd be enticed by the Lightning's "bubbly" look.
Lastly, the Ls are not the King of the Hill for trucks. From what I've seen at the track, syclones keep spanking L @ss. I bring this up because both trucks are factory force fed, but yet the new Ls keep getting whipped! Robert, your the type of guy that gives Lightning owners a bad name! Most L owners are nice and know that it's us truckers against those pesky smaller & lighter cars. Just remember, most car racers look at us truck racers and shake their heads for racing something so heavy and non-aerodynamic.
Eli
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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3/20/2003
21:56:56
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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According to any 1/4 mile estimator it would take 700 HP for someting as large and areodynamically challenged as a 'L' to even barely break into the 10's. That is with perfect traction and gearing as well. Just a quick look at dragtruck.com shows 2 'L's in the 10's (and a street drive CC R/T) and they look much more modified then you are talking about, pretty much dedicated race trucks with added 4 links and near 700 HP and lighten up consideribly.
Kenne-Belle is making supercharger kits for the Hemi as we speek but the initial run is being built specifically for Dodge speciality trucks. The kit for the general public will be out this summer.
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Pessimist
Dodge Dakota
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3/21/2003
09:42:29
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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Message:
Wanna bet on that kit being out this summer? THEY CAN'T TUNE IT. Bye.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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3/21/2003
10:56:43
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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Oh my, the first uncrackible computer program! Seems strange that it was finally accomplishied by a car manufacturer. Oh well, I wonder what everybody is going to do with all those Hemi crate motors that they have been selling? I guess they are just for coffe tables or something...
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MikeD
*R/T*
3/21/2003
12:02:51
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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Message:
My buddy had the fastest Lightning in Dallas....pushing 420hp at the wheels and 490tq and the best he could do w/ a 15lb pulley, chip, valve body, elec fans, and suspension mods was a 13.0...no where near a 10.
~Mike~
Get In...Sit Down...Shutup...& Hangon
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Daker777
Dodge Dakota
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3/22/2003
03:15:51
| RE: 2004 Lightning
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Message:
Wow, THAT is the REASON why I DONT LIKE L owners. Any body who has spent any time at a track would NEVER, EVER say so and so's car or truck which you know nothing about would get anihilated by any L. YOU ARE RIGHT, your 30k dollar lightning makes you the king of the world. I have only heard of 2 new lightnings running 10s, and both were far from stock anything and very unfriendly to the street driven world. That comment right there shows YOUR ignorance. I will not argue with you on the fact that an L is very fast. Many run 12s even 11s and are street driven. But you cannot argue with the R/t vs lightning shootout where this chit talking started by YOUR BOYS (lightning owners) and ended when the R/Ts dominated over the Ls. I also find it funny that you need to prove your truck is faster than all the trucks in the world. My buddy has a syclone, on pump gas that runs high 11s. It cost 15k total. Running street tires. WHy dont you head over to Dragtruck.com and look at the times they are REALLY running.
I bought my truck to carry me and more then one passanger on a daily basis, and to have fun with. Neither of which you seem to be having with yours. You spent alot of money on it, cant carry passangers, and put a few toys on it, now its done? For the money spent of a new L to run 11s, and r/t would run 10s no problem. Instead of chit talking why dont you say where you race and find some r/ts to come run you. I woulda had respect for you until you brought my truck- which you know nothing about, into the argument, and attacked me as a person. That deserves a back hand. Say something with meaning, or go away.
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