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08:31:43 - 11/17/2024
Dakota Performance
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SlamminDakota
Dodge Dakota
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10/12/2002
18:54:53
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 Subject: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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Hey everyone, its time to rack your brains. I'm looking into buying a SUPERCHARGER. I have a 2001 Dodge Dakota R/T 5.9 and only the best will do for her. Now I know there are a ton out there like vortech, powerdyne, Kennie Bell and manny more, but which one produces the most horsepower and is the most reliable. These are expensive products so I don't want to waste money into something that isn't going to cut it. Thanks oh, and remember, ITS MOPAR OR NO CAR!
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kota on 20s
GenIII
10/12/2002
21:08:59
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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paxton novi 2000. hands down the best. the blower uses a seprate belt than the engine, and it is a 8 rib belt...NO slippage!
the fuel system is also the best money can buy. Ryan in hawaii has used this SC for sometime now, and i dont know how many 1/4 passes with 10-12 lbs of boost, on the stock head gaskets.
it costs $4200 though.
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, 3" carsound cat, dumped gibson
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Cruznlo
Dodge Dakota
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10/12/2002
21:26:38
|  RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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http://www.procharger.com/dodge.shtml
www.cruznlo.com
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kota on 20s
GenIII
10/13/2002
00:56:35
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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if ATI's kit is anything like the other kit that used the ATI head and intercooler, its no where near as good as the paxton... the intercooler hangs low, and gets ripped off easily (if you have a lowered truck, dont even consider this kit)
and i think the fuel system is like the powerdyne's... just a FMU to up the fuel pressure in the stock injectors.
that write up dosent say anything about timing controll... i do see a MSD box (probably the 6BTM) if it dosent come with it you will HAVE to buy it, if you want to save the headgaskets. which adds another $350 to the price.
if the head is the same as the other kit, they use straight cut gears in the blower, which makes it VERRY noisy. it would probably be cool for the first couple of weeks, but can get old QUICK.
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, 3" carsound cat, dumped gibson
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SlamminDakota
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2002
02:37:14
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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Great, thanks a lot for the info Kota on 20 you have been a big help. I'll check out that website and do a lil proding around too.
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Cruznlo
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2002
07:53:00
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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I think the magic word IS intercooler though, and the Procharger gains in horsepower and torque are very impressive. Besides, if you're willing to spend thousands of dollars for a supercharger, what's a few bucks more for some other pieces? AND my Dak is bagged, and the intercooler is mounted low in the front, and I have not hit anything with it.
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F150
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2002
11:55:24
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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The best supercharger to get is the one with a Lightning hooked up to it.
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buddy jones
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2002
12:55:29
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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I'm gonna flat out tell ya,Kenne Bell all the way, man.
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kota on 20s
GenIII
10/13/2002
12:59:54
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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cruzin low, why would you buy a kit just because of the intercooler?? you say yours dosent get in the way? did you have to custom mount it? also, the fuel setup in itself, is no where near the paxton's, nor is the blower, or the bracket, or even the belt setup.
i know someone who had a ATI with intercooler, and got tired of ripping the intercooler off over speedbumps, so he just ran it without the IC. THEN sold it, and went with the NOVI 2000.
if someone is worried about intercooling, all they could do is run a alky/water injection. its not that much, and will provide better gains than a IC
F150 guy, do you even own a lightning? or do you have just the run of the mill POS.. oh i mean F150?
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, 3" carsound cat, dumped gibson
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POWER HUNGRY
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2002
16:19:29
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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It all depends on where you want the power the most. The paxton makes more low-end power than the vortech, slightly less max power and cost around a little less than grand more.(info out of a mustang mag. comparing the two)
As for the procharger the P-1SC has billet impellers for higher max speeds and new billet gears for strong, quieter operation. You can request a catalog at thier web site www.procharger.com. The most info on thier kits I found at www.rpmoutlet.com. The reason they don't include the typical timing retarder is that it's not needed. These site compare the vortech and procharger systems and show make (22% more) power than the vortech system over stock.
You should check out www.speedtweaks.net turbocharger page, they list rear wheel power result from vortech, powerdyne and kenne bell kits on a 5.9l. I personally like the idea of the extra 40-60 ft-lbs of torque from the kenne bell over the centrifugal superchargers.
Cruznlo,
Where did you get your kit from? cost? Your site doesn't say what your truck runs. I thought I saw it on dragtruck.com but can't find it. It looks great!, I have a 93 and was wondering if the kit would fit without trouble on mine. I definitely need boost just can't decide which one, Stock Sucks! The only good thing from waiting is I have read everything and talked to everyone possible to get as much info forced induction as possible. Knowledge Is Power!!
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buddy jones
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2002
16:41:20
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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I've about had it from this frikken loser(f150).
why don't you go to ford-enthusiasts.com or something and stop making everyone p'd off.
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POWER HUNGRY
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2002
18:41:37
|  RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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buddy jones,
I guess that guy never went to the kenne bell site and read how switching to his blower added 100 horse over the stock eaton. DUH!
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Wesley
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2002
20:08:51
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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I just got my brochure from Procharger about the new Dodge kits. Here is what it lists for the kit:
P-1SC ProCharger
Air-to-Air intercooler
CNC machined supercharger bracket
tensioning system
high performance external fuel pump
digital fuel management unit
high flow surge/bypass system
belt
hoses
all the nuts and bolts needed
wire ties
That is straight from the Procharger brochure. It claims that you can run 8-9psi safely on pump gas with gains of 55-60% over a stock motor.
Wesley
'01 CC R/T
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kota on 20s
GenIII
10/13/2002
20:27:36
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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i would not like to be there when someone pulls 9#'s of boost without retarding the timing. the detonation would make me cry.
i know you can pull out more timing when running a IC, but 9#'s on stock head gaskets (not to mencion stock plugs), is asking for problems.
my friend blew the gaskets out with 8#'s with a few degrees pulled, and he also had alky injection.
good luck
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, 3" carsound cat, dumped gibson
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POWER HUNGRY
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2002
20:38:44
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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Wesley,
What does it cost? Is it for 96-01 models only?
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Wesley
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2002
20:49:07
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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Over on the R/T mailing list, a couple of vendors have it for $4200
www.worldwideperformanceparts.com
www.premier-automotive.net
I think those were the two that have it.
Wesley
'01 CC R/T
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buddy jones
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2002
20:50:18
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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Power Hungry,
just glad someboody seems to understand where I'm coming from.
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kota on 20s
GenIII
10/13/2002
21:21:34
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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IF you can get the kenny bell to work properly, you are only going to get 6#'s out of them. any more, and you are asking for problems.. KB missed the mark with the 5.2/5.9 kit.
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, 3" carsound cat, dumped gibson
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Chris Carton
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2002
21:59:40
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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Kota on 20's, I didn't buy the Procharger for the intercooler, but it is a nice extra. Alky injection is fine too, but the intercooler comes with the kit, why not use it? Intercooler=more HP. I have had no problems with belt slippage. I bought the MSD BTM, bigger injectors, etc. because I was in there so why not? The intercooler is mounted in the front near the airdam, and I have had no problems hitting things. Besides, lots of people have Paxton's, I wanted to be different.
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POWER HUNGRY
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2002
22:02:31
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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Wesley,
I couldn't find it on either site, thanks anyway.
I guess I'll have to ask them for one of thier catalogs.
I think the kenne bell is a good street kit concidering it makes 6 hp and 40ft-lbs over the powerdyne unit at the same boost level. They say thier alcohol/water spray set up allows another 2-3 psi to be use on the same octane. Postive displacements blower run the best on engines built for it with a low CR. The unit's BIG selling point is the throttle responce.
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Cruznlo
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2002
22:05:17
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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Power Hungry, thanks for the good word. I bought the kit off Ebay, it's was manufactured for a '98 (I have a '96.) Installation was relatively easy, just had to get creative with some of the intercooler piping. I just installed it this summer, so haven't had a chance to run it at the track or get it dynoed yet, hope to soon. There is some remarkable power going on.
www.cruznlo.com
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kota on 20s
GenIII
10/13/2002
22:27:39
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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slammindak, do you want a stock engine with a blower, or do you plan on adding other mods, like M1, rockers, TB, heads, ect? do you plan on racing it?
FWIW, the fastest dakota (ron's big bird) went from a kenny bell, to a vortech, and now he is running the novi 2000. he obviously has a lot of money, and wants only the best, so i wonder why he is running a paxton.
you can add parts to any SC to make it run right, but from what i have seen and heard, the paxton is the best out of the box package there is.
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, 3" carsound cat, dumped gibson
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POWER HUNGRY
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2002
22:42:08
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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Probably next year he'll be running a procharger. Most of the pro class records are set by them or turboes.
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kota on 20s
GenIII
10/13/2002
23:22:45
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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lol...ok well put it this way, everyone that have heard of, who has money to buy the "best", gets the paxton. the vortech comes on a close 2nd. the only things that i see wrong with the ATI is
#1. intercooler hangs too low. you will have to modify it like cruznlo has, or risk ripping it off.
#2. no timing retard.
#3. the air filter comes out of the back of the blower and sucks in hot air.
#4. i hear running the plumbing to the IC is a pain in the ass.
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, 3" carsound cat, dumped gibson
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kota on 20s
GenIII
10/13/2002
23:48:31
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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BTW, the paxton is the only SC company that offers a "tuner kit" it leaves out the aux fuel system, and blocks off the injector holes in the airhat, and also does not come with a ignition box... just the blower, bracket, tubing, and airhat.
you add the spark and fuel. most that i know are running 24 or 36# injectors and controlling them and the timing via split second box.
the tuner kit cuts the cost WAY down from the standard kit.
for thoes who are going to put a lot of mods on there engine, this will be the better way to go, since you will need to tune it anyway.
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, 3" carsound cat, dumped gibson
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POWER HUNGRY
Dodge Dakota
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10/14/2002
20:13:04
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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I have never seen anyone running a paxton at the track so I really can't comment on how they run. I do believe that they are better than the vortech from what I've read. The most I see are vortech kits probably because thier the cheapest priced and have the largest kit selection. I have seen two procharger mustangs, one of which was Jim Larocca who holds both records in his class.
I was talk about 12+psi racing kits since that guy is running around that amount of boost. I said that he would be running a procharger because they are the most popular with the racers that are at the top of thier classes. Most racers I have read about racers who have switched to them from other brands and got big gains. I saw this at racing organization sites and procharger's site which list thier accomplishments. "THE UNDISPUTED LEADER. ATI now powers the fastest centrifugal race cars in each of the major race classes, and also powers over 90% of all centrifugal racers in the 7's, and the only centrifugal racers in the 6’s. From Real Street to Pro 5.0, race teams are choosing ProCharger superchargers for their industry-leading power and durability. For serious racers, additional gains of over 500 hp are possible by simply switching to ProCharger." from the procharger web site. They also show that in a face off with a vortech kit on the same motor running the same boost(8.2psi) thier kit made 60 more horses. When they turned thier kit up to 11.5 psi, still on pump gas made 108 more hp than the vortech. WOW!! They also state that as proof of thier reliabilty they are the only centrifugal superchargers that can be ordered as OEM equipment from any performance boat manufacturer.
As for the problems you see with the kits,
#1& 4. The street kits are made for stock trucks(stock height). If minor adjustments are needed, I think that's a small inconveince for that much extra power.
#2. The intercooler makes it not necessary to run a timing retarder on thier kits. "what you gain from 2 psi (20-25HP) is lost by retarding timing 4°-6°," kenne bell. " And while a reduction in timing can save a motor from detonation, the excessive heat which was causing the detonation is still present. Intercooling, on the other hand, actually removes the heat which causes detonation, and allows higher boost levels to be safely run with full timing on pump gas," Procharger web site. I'd still get a timing retarding system anyway but getting the intercooler with the kit is Way More Important to the making of Big POWER on the street. The ignition kits are also only a couple hundred dollars while intercoolers are 1000+ dollars.
I love power no matter which supercharger kit it comes from. I think all of them are good kits, but my money is going where it does the most. Right now my choices are narrowed down to:
1. Custom built turbo kit (built by Pat Musi, Bullish Racing or myself)
2. The Procharger kit at 11 psi or more with a pop off valve to get more low-end boost.
3. The screw type charger 2.2L unit (kenne bell or Whipple). I can't get the idea of that awesome throttle response out of my head.
Choices, choices, too many choices. lol
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Cruznlo
Dodge Dakota
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10/14/2002
20:47:27
|  RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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Yea, what he said! LOL
I have a blow off valve on my Procharger setup.
www.cruznlo.com
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kota on 20s
GenIII
10/14/2002
21:37:27
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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how much is the ATI kit?
my friend Rick, is running 9-10#'s of boost whith alky injection (cools down the intake charge better than a IC), and he still has to pull timing....and thats with a cooler plug, race gas, 24# injectors, PLUS the aux injectors in the vortech airhat!!
agin, i wouldnt what to be there when someone runs 9#'s with no timing pulled, and that fuel system. intercooled or not... expecially on the stock headgaskets. you are asking for problems.
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, 3" carsound cat, dumped gibson
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Blown318
Dodge Dakota
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10/14/2002
22:19:00
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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Kota on 20's,
You keep saying the intercooler hangs low to the ground on the ATI kit. Which is true. But that kit came from Golden West. Habe you seen the new kit from ATI? Not Golden West? I don't think anyone knows how the intercooler mounts from them.
Oh yeah by the way. I have the Vortech T-Trim. Killer blower. Best bang for the buck when I bought it. Paxton wasn't out yet and Golden West was the only one with a kit for ATI. After talking with many ATI owners that has Golden West kits, they all say go with Vortech. But then again I did blow the 1008's and the Solicor from Mr' Gaskets. I know have O-ringed heads and SCE Gaskets. I never had any fuel problems. Split Second P1sc controller, 318 with 24lb FMS. Never ran lean, just a little rich from time to time. not overly rich like other claim. I just believe it's the suck ass bolt pattern on the heads. People keep claiming its detonation problems, never had any, and I'm getting plenty of fuel to it. So that's just my 2 cents worth. have at it guys.
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POWER HUNGRY
Dodge Dakota
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10/15/2002
00:57:17
|  RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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The cost from wesley about a dozen post up is $4200 the paxton on thier site goes for $5300.
Check out http://www.procharger.com/h2hdt.shtml to see thier dyno runs of the P600B unit verses the vortech s-trim. they don't have a comparison of thier P-1SC verses the T-trim vortech, but looking at the web sit show identical flow ratings, max hp, with the procharger having a 7,000 rpm higher redline and 30 verses 26 max psi.
The P-1sc unit is the one that comes in the dodge kit while the the stock vortech kit is an SQ unit that is slightly below the P600B procharger unit.
From dyno comparison the biggest difference is the Engine Intake Manifold Inlet Temperature in which the 11.5 psi procharger actually has a 59.5 degree lower temperature. Thats the main reason why they don't need the timing retarder and can make more power. You could get the vortech intercooler for $1500+ more but it only really works for a short time on the street after you fill it.
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kota on 20s
GenIII
10/15/2002
02:32:13
| RE: Best SuperCharger setup?! yep this again
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blown318, does that SS box alow you to lean out the mixture? i have the 19#ders in right now, and its running a little on the lean side with 6#'s of boost. i am thinking of running 24# injectors when going to 9#'s but i think it might run a little rich at idle. how much boost are you running, and have you ever put it on the dyno to see the A/F ratio? if so, what was it?
i have not seen the actuall ATI kit, but have heard it is under the truck still, and the only good place to mount it, is where goldenwest did theirs. i would like to know for sure where they did mount it though.
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, 3" carsound cat, dumped gibson
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