| From | Message |
Glen440
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/07/2002
13:19:22
|
 Subject: Thoughts on ram air
IP: Logged
Message:
While I'm waiting for my 2003 Dak to be built I am coming up with how to build the ram air system.
I ordered a red cc, 4.7, 5 speed with 3.92 sure grip. I was thinking since there will be no fog lights in the lower spoiler that I will run dual inlet ram air from the fog light openings and then into one big tube that will run up inside the fender and join to the stock air inlet for the air box. I will run a K&N filter. I'll likely make it out of pvc tubeing . I will put the IAT sensor in the cold air stream so it does not run lean. I do not see the cold air intakes as being worth it. I will only do a couple mods in spring, but ones that will help low end and mileage, Maybe the HO cams. I have a car for speed and 7-8 mpg. I will use the truck to trailer my car to the drags a few times a summer. Any 5.0's and Camaros that think they are tuff trying to race my truck can answer to my car.......hehehe.
Any thoughts on ram air for the 4.7 will be appreciated....I have not had a good enough look at one yet to see if my idea is going to work without cutting a hole in the inner fender. I guess I could go beside the rad through the rubber flap. And that ram air hood is cool but too expensive. My friend sees about a 40km per tank improvement with just adding a little ram air to his airbox on his 99 5.2 Dak.
Glen440
|
LiveDakota
GenIII
9/07/2002
13:59:14
|  RE: Thoughts on ram air
IP: Logged
Message:
Glen440, how about taking something like a flex tubing and mouting it behind both of your fog light holes. Then i saw an airhat on a website, cant think of it at the moment, that has dual inlets off to each side of the motor. If you could think of a way to house an air filter on each tube then that could be an awesome set up that is fairly inexpensive.
Thomas C.
2000 White Sport, Airaid Intake, Clear corners, Euro Taillights,
Bedliner, Autolight 3923's, 8mm accel spiral core wires, 2 10" MTX Thunders, Jensen cd deck, Jensen 400w chrome amp
|
Cotharyus
GenIII
9/07/2002
16:47:00
| RE: Thoughts on ram air
IP: Logged
Message:
Here's something to think about too. You want to make the air move fast. Slow moving air is no good to you. With that in mind, you can rule out the flex tubing. All of the ridges in it will slow the air down too much. the PVC is an idea, but you might start it at the diameter of the fog light openings (3"?) and reduce it before your first bend to something like 2.5" - not too much but enough to get the speed up. Next you need to work really hard on your routing. You want as few bends in the pipe as possible because 1) every bend you put in the pipe is going to slow the air down even more and 2) PVC joints are not smooth on the inside of the pipe, so you get more turbulence, and slower air. Where you must use a bend, try to use 2 45's in place of 2 90's - it'll keep your air moving faster. Good luck on the ram air, hope it works.
2001 QC 4x4, 4.7,5 spd, LSD, K&N Gen II Intake, Robert Shaw 180 Stat
|
sandman
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/08/2002
10:11:06
| RE: Thoughts on ram air
IP: Logged
Message:
Ram air does work but it usualy do little until you hit 5000-6000 rpms. IT is good for about 15 HP in most aplications. You can grab 10 HP just buy installing a free flowing air intake duct and filter so all the extra work for ram air seems a bit mute unless you are going for looks. You are not going to compress air to a meaniful level at truck speeds.
|
99DakJR
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/08/2002
11:11:03
| RE: Thoughts on ram air
IP: Logged
Message:
Sandman is right. The ram air effect does not
take serious effect until speeds exceeding
100mph. At that speed you are getting maybe
.9lbs of boost which is good for 10-15 hp. I
would just go coldair and save the weight of
all that pvc. Good idea though!
Josh
|
teamfast
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/08/2002
13:14:58
| RE: Thoughts on ram air
IP: Logged
Message:
Great idea if you are doing highway travelling, 100mph? are you sure you have to go that fast? I made a single setup for my mazda 4x4 and i swear i felt an improvement at near highway speeds...
|
Glen440
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/08/2002
13:17:36
| RE: Thoughts on ram air
IP: Logged
Message:
I think I'll have to try it to see how it works. As soon as the truck is moving the restriction in the airbox should be eliminated. I just figure it will be better than a cold air kit. Way cheaper too. Its more for gas mileage than performance but it may have a good increase in top end power. I did gain 20hp rear wheel in my 77 Volare RoadRunner going from a 14X4" open element to my ram air from the front spoiler. This is from a 3900 pound car going from 101.5 mph to 104. 318.28HP to 342.39. These are from a Day at London Motorsports Park. Not bad for a 7.6-1 comp 400 on 87 octane.
|
sandman
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/08/2002
16:09:23
| RE: Thoughts on ram air
IP: Logged
Message:
Positive. I used to drive an early generation V-MAX and I played around with the ram air system and forced induction. The ram air on the stock engine did not make much difference until the speeds were above 100-120 MPH and RPM's were above 5000.It did not take long to meet these requirments as I only weighted 168Lbs. Mind you that the early model I had did not have the 180MPH limiter that the newer Yamaha V-MAX bikes have. Once you past 160 MPH you could watch the small gas tanks guage start droping like a rock. From stop light to stop light I could eat a Porsche or a Ninja for breakfast. That bike had so much torgue that all the important fastners came saftey wired from the factory. I wanted a 426 Cuda but could not afford one so a V-Max was my answere!!!!!
|
Glen440
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/08/2002
17:11:17
| RE: Thoughts on ram air
IP: Logged
Message:
I don't think you can compare the Bike to a truck. It has ram air to begin with doesn't it? Plus those engines are totally different. My Volare has a bad ram air system and is not sealed to the carb and the lid leaks bad and it works good. Cars top speed was 120mph. Thats like 6500 in 3rd. I will post results in spring when I hit the track.
|
sandman
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/08/2002
22:48:46
|  RE: Thoughts on ram air
IP: Logged
Message:
The fundamentals of engine dynaics is the same for 4cyle gas engine. All diesels work on the same principals as well.Their are a few twists like wankel rotor and Miller cycle designs that are a little different but all of the prinicpals still apply just the whay they execute is defferent. It is all about who builds the most effecient air pump with reasonable durability. The laws of thermo dynamics, fluid dynamics and all laws of physcis apply to all engines. This is why a motorcyle(Yamaha) company can design engines for ford(SHO) and a marine company(Mercy Marine) can cast it for them. This is why Porsche can re-design engines for the new Harley V-ROD. I have helped designed and build custom intake's, duct work, turbo charger and super chager set ups and fuel injection set up on VW, Toyota, Honda and a few Chevy's and a Ford and a bunch of other forign cars that are not imported here..... The reason I mentioned the bike is because everything happen quicker on a bike and their is less between you and the equipment. Their are all kinds of thing on a truck that make it harder to judge what is going on. The weight alone make 15 hp insignificant for anything other then a Dyno to detect. On a bike 15 Hp shows up and is detectable before you ever get it on a dyno. I also have never bothered with ram air on a vechile that did nt come with it from the factory. My idea of Ram Air always includes a turbo or super charger! Once you under stand engines you can work on any of them. To emphasise the point. I often end up fixing antique and modern tractors for my father inlaw that his area tractor specialist can not fix or his buddies and him can not fix. It has yet to take me more then a day to fix any of his tractors that the tractor specialst had for a week or more it usualy on takes me about a half hour or so. Yeah I have let my certifications expire and I do not know Dodge vechiles that well but their are only so many ways to suck in fuel mixed with air and ignite it. Their is always one way that works best and a bunch of comprimises that will also work.
|
Glen440
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/08/2002
23:56:26
| RE: Thoughts on ram air
IP: Logged
Message:
I'm not going to argue here but as I stated I did get 20 hp at the rear wheels on my Volare and no dyno would detect it cause it was from ram air. Modifying something that already has ram air will be alot harder to make a gain with than something that has a restrictive air box with no forced induction. I have been working on cars for 11 years now and rebuilt my 440 and 400, with me doing everything except machining. I'm a Collision repairer by license but have been working on BB Mopar since I was 13. The bigger the engine the bigger the gain from ram air.
My mind was pretty much made up before I posted this......was more looking for ideas. I know ram air works.....just how good in this truck I will find out. As I said I am not going to argue here so discussion is closed.
|
LOGIC71B
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/09/2002
00:18:51
| RE: Thoughts on ram air
IP: Logged
Message:
Glen440,
I have a self made custome ram air in my truck. Unfortunately I don't have any picks of it.
The only thing is, I did not use the fog light holes. Sounds interesting though.
If you would like more info on my set up let me know and I will fill you in through email. I would like to note that one part of it did take me a bet to set up because of the "perfectionist" that I am, and I still have more ideas to add and remove!
All I can say is that I am happy with it.
|
Glen440
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/09/2002
00:39:38
| RE: Thoughts on ram air
IP: Logged
Message:
Yes I would like info on your setup. Compared to My Volare this should be a walk in the park. I spent about 10 hours fabing an air cleaner, never mind making a new center section for the spoiler and running the tubing.
My e-mail glenl440@hotmail.com
thanks
|
sandman
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/09/2002
18:59:39
| RE: Thoughts on ram air
IP: Logged
Message:
Glen, I was woundering how you calculated the 2OHP gain. I could see if you blew 100 MPH air over the front of the car on a dyno to verify this. Useing 60ft. times and et's to compute HP is not very accurate . Size of the engine has nothing to to do with HP to CI ratio witch is what is truly important in evaluateing the benifit of the mod. The percentage gain is pretty much fixed reguardless of CI. A 1/2 percent gain is a half percent gain no matter what the size of the engine. It is also important to take into account where the power occurs in the power band. I aprenticed at BMW as a Tech. I worked in the industry 14 years. Alot of my time was spent tuneing exotics and fixing one of's. The rest of my time was working on imports in general. I am now one of the people that get called when a Techniican, Service Manager or APM has no idea how to fix a customers car. I took a few years off to go to College for Aviation Technology and Marketing. So I am not talking out my A$$. I also have friends that quit good automotive design jobs to work on car that the owner was spending $1,000,000.00 +++ on custom sheet metal and paint. Alot of their cars are Top Flight car, Peeble Beach, Concours, Cobole(sp) Hall class car. They have been featured on Hot Rod Cover and in the magazine more time then I car to count. If I want to see 2004 vechiles today I walk three building down and take a look. I watch them crash protypes at luch time. So you will excuse me if I am not intimidated by 11 year of body work. Most ram air hoods on car today are non-funtional just like the spoilers. The drag alone from most ram air systems and non-funtional hoods is horable at high speed. Why do you think more companys do not add funtional hood scoops to their cars to get some free power????? Last I checked the Pontic Fire Bird only made about 15 more HP with it's ram air hood then it's Camaro brother. Something to consider even with two wheel drive and under the fascia ram air is water incursion. If ever you need to cross a lightly flooded road you could be in trouble if you did not remeber to disconect the the system before crossing. I again say that even if you get 20 HP with your Ram Air. You could have gotten 10-15 HP with just a K&N cone filter and a nice SS air duct tube and the removal of factory air hat.
|
Glen440
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/09/2002
19:15:38
| RE: Thoughts on ram air
IP: Logged
Message:
End of discussion. I'll be back in May with ET and mph differences. Re-read what I wrote. I beleive track times and mph on the same day are accurate enough.
|
Glen440
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/09/2002
19:50:00
| RE: Thoughts on ram air
IP: Logged
Message:
I just actually read your post. If this is what I get for opinions I'm not posting here anymore. An opinion is good whether its for or against my ideas but this is sad. I don't care what people do for a living, I'll respect anyones opinion but if you think you are definatley right because of what you do and your bike that came with ram air didn't feel like it worked till 100+ mph then oh well.
|
LOGIC71B
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/09/2002
21:43:10
| RE: Thoughts on ram air
IP: Logged
Message:
Geln440,
I will get a list together and try to get some picks and I will send them to you prob. Tuesday afternoon.
Until then!
|
| | P 1 |
|
Post a reply to this message:
Username Registration: Optional
All visitors are allowed to post messages
|
