| From | Message |
Doc
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/19/2002
10:31:55
|
 Subject: M1/TB install TQ loss??
IP: Logged
Message:
Well,
Got my M1 and TB for my '00 QuadCab with 5.9 last week and off to the mechanic to dyno before and after mods.
Before, with 3" cat-back, AirAid induction and TB spacer: 201 RWHP and 324 #ft TQ. OK to passable.
After installing M1, worked TB and removing the spacer: 210 RWHP and 258 #ft of Torque. ??????
Compter was reset, but not relearned.
Anyone with the same rig and adders have the same results?
Ideas to regain lost torque?
|
Doc
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/19/2002
10:35:45
|  RE: M1/TB install TQ loss??
IP: Logged
Message:
Forgot to add: installed Autolites and 180* stat too,...
|
alex
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/19/2002
10:39:50
| RE: M1/TB install TQ loss??
IP: Logged
Message:
What you've done with the new M-1 is make HUuuuuuuUGE power gains up at the 3500-6000 range. But now you need a PCM flash to get past the rev limiter and get to your power band.
I'd call B&G Chrysler.
|
R/Truck
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/19/2002
10:53:35
| RE: M1/TB install TQ loss??
IP: Logged
Message:
Re-check your tps
relocate your map sensor
get the turtle for the m1
Those modes are cheap and will help with the low end torque. You may also want to consider some headers to help all that extra air flow get out of your engine.
|
Doc
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/19/2002
10:58:40
| RE: M1/TB install TQ loss??
IP: Logged
Message:
Alex,
I didn't bring the dyno sheets in with me to indicate just where the gains and drop-off occurred, but will do so at the end of the day.
I've considered the flash, but have some problem with the rig being out of service too long.
B&G Chrysler?? Have you a number and contact name?
Thanks,...D
|
alex
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/19/2002
11:09:42
| RE: M1/TB install TQ loss??
IP: Logged
Message:
I don't have the contact, but it's been talked about a good bit here. run a search. Or check over at Moparchat.com in the forums. The Ram forum seems to have a lot about it.
|
torque_less
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/19/2002
11:09:54
| I tried to tell them
IP: Logged
Message:
Read the "Who has a 14.0 1/4 mi. time or better?" thread.
|
rtdkota
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/19/2002
11:37:41
|  RE: M1/TB install TQ loss??
IP: Logged
Message:
Well-- a couple things:
You didn't give your PCM a chance to learn the new setup. PLUS-- you only did 1 pull, so it's conceivable that the run wasn't accurate (gotta run 2 to back them up).
You have only 1 piece of the puzzle for the m1 setup-- you need headers, possibly a TB (I think you have one), also a cam to help get into the M1s rpm range (1.7 rockers work good too). Otherwise, go full tilt-- get the cam, a set of RT heads (1.92 non ported work just fine for me)... you'll be in the 280-290 rwhp range and 325-330 rwtq range.
Sam
www.socaldakota.com
|
Doc
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/20/2002
01:32:00
| RE: M1/TB install TQ loss??
IP: Logged
Message:
Thanks to all for your input.
There were 8 runs in total, 3 before changes, 3 immediately after installation and reinitializing the ecm computer, and 2 more with about 15 driven miles on the computer.
I saw a flattening and lengthing of the curve with the last 2 runs, showing some benefit from the relearning process.
I spoke with Summit and Mopar tech departments and both told me that the loss was one mechanical in nature, not based on the electronics. According to them, the shorter runner length in the M1 is the cause of the loss of torque. They added that the only way to regain the lost torque would to be replace the M1 with the beerkeg. Headers would help, but without doing major engine mods, up to and including stroking, the torque wouldn't come back.
My primary purpose in mods is for towing, not racing. I understand a cam change might be helpful along with adding headers, and so will need to get back with Summit for some input on cams or reference to a cam builder.
Edelbrock SS headers are going to run $309, so I'm going to need to raise the money for them first (as well as good gaskets and ARP non-backout header fasteners). Once I've got headers installed, I'll get a few hundred miles on the computer and see what that brings.
I plan to do some highway driving Sunday to see what the upper RPMs act like. It is kind of difficult to do much experimenting with city driving. (I've got to be extra careful around town, since I share parking space with the police department).
One thing I have noticed, though, is the "whistle/hiss" from my cold air induction (AirAid) is gone. Sad-I kind of miss it. The engine does seem to spool up faster, though.
Thanks, all, for the input-any ideas or observations appreciated.
[I think I might just have tried a modification direction that is contrary to my goals. Looks like the M1 is an excellent piece for 'hot rod truck', but maybe not what is needed to achieve my particular goal of low rpm torque!]
...D
|
Fluid
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/21/2002
21:21:22
|  RE: M1/TB install TQ loss??
IP: Logged
Message:
I believe you are correct in your comment about the M1 being in the 'wrong' direction. It is a copy of the racing manifold used on LA motors for years, with modern updates. The M1 favors rpm, and the racers get around the soft torque by running high numerical gear ratios and high-stall torque converters. These may help you too, but do you really want to pour more money in that direction?
An alternative would be a modified beerbarrel with a better cam ( designed for torque! ), the headers ( without an excessively free-flowing exhaust which can help peak output but softenes lowend torque ). The modded beerbarrel I have was done by Jon Smith ( fast4x4.net ) and made a large difference in top end with almost no discernable low end loss. The M1 will give better peak power no question, but shortening the beerbarrel runners and porting them really makes the engine pull harder up top....helpful when you downshift on a grade, etc.
An alternative is a blower. They aren't cheap, but they do supply beaucoup hp and torque since they make the engine behave like it has 30-50% more cubic inches. The roots and Whipple types give a torque boost right off idle, while the centrifigual ones build boost with rpm. I had a roots type on a daily driver for three years and loved it - instant power whenever you got into the throttle!
|
Doc
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/22/2002
21:50:07
| RE: M1/TB install TQ loss??
IP: Logged
Message:
Well, A bit of a run Sunday revealed much improved mid and upper end improvement. The M1 is definetly an RPM item.
Anyone install an "RV" or "off-road" cam for trail running? If so, what did you use and did it improve the torque at low RPMs?
|
moparjoe20
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/23/2002
17:37:19
| RE: M1/TB install TQ loss??
IP: Logged
Message:
I put an M1 2 barrel on my '99 Dakota and noticed that it takes a while for the computer to adapt. The week after I put it on I ran it and only picked up 1/10 and 2 mph in the 1/8 , after driving about 1,800 miles I ran it again and have picked up 3/10's and 4 mph in the 1/8 over the stock intake on a hotter night than the last time. The only other thing I changed was putting on a 14x3" open element air cleaner in place of the POS K&N FIPK that I had on it , it got a crack about 10" long in the area above the exhaust manifold so I returned it and got my money back.
|
| | P 1 |
|
Post a reply to this message:
Username Registration: Optional
All visitors are allowed to post messages
|
