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alex
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
08:47:28
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 Subject: RE: 4.7 1/4 times
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Update on my previous post.....
'00 CC 5-spd 3.55LS
Bone Stock 16.30@87.~~ mph
No Air Filter 15.93@87.5~ mph
K&N + Mobil 1 Lube 15.50@88.~~ mph
Volant Intake Tube + Autolite3923's 15.41@88.9 mph
All the above + Lakewood Bars 15.38@89.2 mph
All the above + 70mmTB + DynoMax Cat-back
------>>>> 15.18@90.11 mph in hot weather with poor traction. I picked up .2 tenths with almost 1 full mph. That's on street tires. I have not realized the full power of the TB because I can't get it to the ground yet.
Oh and here's more voodoo for you.... I didn't spend the $400 on the TB. I just have the TB.
PS- G-Tech numbers are still crap. I want to see scanned timeslips from your almighty PCM flash. I want to see those posted right eb side your dyno graphs. For your dyno runs, I want to see two runs without the PCM flash, two runs with the PCM flash. Then I want to see two runs with the 65mm TB and two runs with the 72 mm TB. I want them all run with YOUR truck (not ASE's truck) and I want them run all in the same day on the same dyno.
Then I will be convinced. I'm not sure what you're trying to convince us of, because I am going to get the PCM flashed to go along with the TB. But it would be fun to see the look on your face when you find out that the TB is really helping out more than you think.
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Spany
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
09:55:39
|  RE: 4.7 1/4 times
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I want a date with Heather Locklear!
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
10:09:27
|  RE: 4.7 1/4 times
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Well, then, call her up.
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
10:19:47
| RE: 4.7 1/4 times
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Alex- I have been reading posts saying how the TBs are the "key" to 4.7 performance. my point is that they provide minimal gains and changing your TB adds no more than the $35 IAT switch. The TBs are over-hyped. My point to 4.7 owners- GET YOUR PCM DONE FIRST!!
Those billet TBs are a rip-off for $400!!
But not at your price Alex.
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
11:09:53
| RE: 4.7 1/4 times
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Oh..... well, I've never claimed that the TB was THE key. I haven't read any of those posts that really stuck out in my head.
The key to the 4.7 is definitely the PCM followed by the exhaust. Everyone needs to run 3" pipe all the way back with a 3" cat and a 3" muffler. Guys with the pre-cats need to either remove the 3rd cat or gut it. HO cams and HO intake probably fall in there somewhere, and I need one more month to install them, but the jury's still out on those in my book. Yeah, the TB is pretty expensive, but the 72 mm TB has made Matt Barret's truck a missile with a steering wheel. but there are other mods that you have to have in place first before that TB is going to make a difference. Sure the 69 mm TB only made 9 or 10 hp on Matt's mostly stock truck. Now that he's gutted the cat, installed HO cams & HO intake, I bet the difference in the 69 & the 72 plus all thos emods will double that 10 hp. 20 hp for $550 is pretty good, but that's just conjecture.
If you want to stay under $500, I believe I remember Duner claiming a 35-37 hp increase from the 3" cat/pipe work and that cost him less than $100 if I remember correctly. That kinda makes the PCM seem small, now. But he made that hp number at 6000 rpm which is impossible until you get the PCM flashed. It's too bad he waited to install the 72 mm TB until he put the turbo on it. Otherwise we'd have gotten the real skinny on that little jewel.
Earlier, I was just a little irritated at how aggressive and confrontational you were being about the TB vs the PCM. As I've said before, I'm gonna have both on my truck. I just need to send it off to Leach in about 3 wks here. See you at the track.......
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
11:57:46
| RE: 4.7 1/4 times
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Duner got 9 HP from his bigger cat.
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
13:06:13
|  RE: 4.7 1/4 times
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Here's a link.....
http://www.moparchat.com/forums/showthread.php?s=0c368a3638842531d569241190eb2906&threadid=42928
Here's a quote from that link.....
"....I removed the stock cat and installed a 3" cat. Finally something is making sense! The truck flies again and pulls past 6000 rpm without any problem at all. Unfortunately, the weather has turned very warm here in the desert. Track times will do me no good. The density altitude is hovering around 5000 feet, so there is no way of comparing the times. I used a program that corrects density altitude back to sea level. Doing so shows the truck running 14.10s @ 96-97 mph....
A gain of 7 tenths of a second. (1.1 seconds & 9 mph overall from stock)
I went back to the dyno to see what the difference was........
......In case it's difficult to read....
242.2 hp and 322.5 ft-lbs of torque when the engine is hot with fuel rail cooling system on.
228.3 hp and 298.0 ft-lbs of torque when the engine is hot with fuel rail cooling system off.
A change of 9 hp and 9 ft-lbs of torque from the addition of a larger cat. The big gain was after 5000 rpms... at 6000 rpms the change made 37 hp and 30 ft-lbs of torque."
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Matt Barret
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
13:18:54
| RE: 4.7 1/4 times
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If I had to do over again, this is what I would have done to the engine, in order.
Air Intake (let there be air!)
Remove primary cat, & 3" exhaust (set that air free!)
PCM Flash (need more timing and fuel curve)
70-72mm TB (Need more air.. note: do not kill velocity in the process)
Cams and Intake (for the price, it's worth a shot)
(Suspension for strictly 1/4 ET's)
Slapper bars or Caltracs
SLICKS (insert evil grin)
upgrade shocks (factory shocks Suck)
Lowering a vehicle never hurts, especially one that's shape like a brick.
finally,Dyno the truck, see where your peak HP is, shift accordingly. Over reving will slow you down as will under reving.
Matt Y2K-HEMI
'00 RC 4.7L 5spd
14.23 @ 94.49
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
13:54:20
| RE: 4.7 1/4 times
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Note from Alexs link- Other than the turbo, No mod increased Duners truck EVEN CLOSE to what his PCM did.
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Matt Barret
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
14:00:59
| RE: 4.7 1/4 times
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Cudashoe, Duner's PCM was programmed by someone other than Mike Leach. At least thats what my understanding is.
Comparing his "X" PCM to a Mike Leach PCM is not comparing Apples to Apples !
Btw, What truck do you have ? and what are the specs on it?
Matt Y2K-HEMI
'00 RC 4.7L 5spd
14.23 @ 94.49
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kicker01
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
15:11:40
| RE: 4.7 1/4 times
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so Matt, have you got your cams and intake in yet? How do you like 'em? Also Can Leach do '01 4.7 PCMs?
'01 RC 4.7 5spd
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