| From | Message |
Tom Baker
Dodge Dakota
11/26/2001
21:16:00
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 Subject: 1990 3.9 "to slow" what can I do?
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Message:
I have a 1990 dakota conv. 4x4 and it has the 3,9 v6. It is very underpowered. What can I do? The only thing that I am against is an engine swap. My truck is kind of rare and I don't want to do that to it... Ideally a turbo/supercharger would be great, but any "ANY" help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Tom Baker
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TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
11/26/2001
23:07:38
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
Have you done ANY mods to it at all? What about the air intake? The exhaust, including headers? Ignition? Performance chip? That is where I started, as I have an '89 4x4.
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Tom Baker
Dodge Dakota
11/27/2001
00:50:31
| RE: 1990 3.9
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I have a k&n and thats it
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TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
11/27/2001
13:38:08
| RE: 1990 3.9
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I would recommend the next step to be the exhaust system. I'd start with a "catback" muffler and custom pipes, then I would get an aftermarket cat because if you still have the OE cat, its robbing you of a lot of horsepower since they are made of a honeycomb-type material - basically the OE cats suck prior to 1992. If you have $$$money$$$ left over, get some headers from Edelbrock.
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Tom Baker
Dodge Dakota
11/27/2001
15:55:42
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Thank you for the info. Also, is there such a thing as a turbo/supercharger... something that i can get alot of power out of? I really would like to get this truck "moving"... i am sure that you know what i mean...
Thanks for all of your help.
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TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
11/27/2001
17:16:48
| RE: 1990 3.9
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I have heard of it. I posed the question to a place in Florida that does superchargers for Dak's, and I told him about my 1989. He said he "probably" could do it, but would need the truck in his shop for measurements, calculations, and testing in order to make one. I cant do that.
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Tom Baker
Dodge Dakota
11/27/2001
19:11:11
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
I am trying to find all of the parts that you have mentioned.. if you could help at all it would be great. Can you tell a big differance with catback chip and headers? if you could tell me the manufacturer of these it would be great...
Thanks again, Tom Baker
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Joe E.
Dodge Dakota
11/27/2001
20:56:50
|  RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
Tom, I know what your feeling. I have a 1990 Dak 3.9L too. They are way underpowered. Even the newer 3.9L have a substantial increase in power over our non-magnim engines. I started with a Cat- back exhast too. I used flowmaster. Saw some gains but nothing outstanding. But you must remember, you will only get a large gain once you have enough add-ons to allow the engine to breathe better. Next was a K&N intake. I made a homebrew cold air kit from a 9in cone filter and some 3in PVC. Helped alot. I highly recomend it!!!!!! I just bought a set of Edlebrock headers. I am going to install them this weekend. Tomarrow, I am removing my Cat and puting a straight pipe in. These cats are very bad for HP. I expect by the end of this weekend, I sould feel a sufficient increase in HP and MPG. I will let you know though. Good luck on your Dak. Those Conv. are nice!
Joe E.
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Tom Baker
Dodge Dakota
11/27/2001
21:05:58
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
I have found the chip and the headers, but i can't seem to find any catback for the 3.9 v6. Where did you guys go to get yours? And Joe thanks for your input and I am despretly waiting to hear how your truck runs now. And also whats a ballpark figure on how much those headers are?
Thanks again, Tom Baker
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TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
11/27/2001
21:18:42
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
The best idea for a "catback" would to to select your own muffler (whatever you want), and take it to an exhaust shop. The will install 2.5" pipes that go from the cat, into your muffler, and on out the rear end.
Usually this is the first step in exhaust upgrades...
Remember, however, that if you intend eventually to go with headers, you will need a JET stage II chip, not a stage I. The only prerequisites on a Stage II chip are headers and a 180 degree thermostat.
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Tom Baker
Dodge Dakota
11/27/2001
21:42:38
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
Can I run a stage 2 chip with out headers... that is till i get the headers... what do you think... Do you have any idea how much the headers cost?
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Joe E.
Dodge Dakota
11/28/2001
00:09:11
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Tom, The headers run about $240.00 from Summit Racing. These are the edlebrock street legal headers and they come with everything. I would get the headers on before I did the stage II chip. These chips basically tune your engine to run at its maxium output. They tweek everything. If your system is not up to tweeking quality, you risk messing up your chip, or at least not seeing any improvement. I would do the intake and exhaust first.
About my exhaust, I did like TigerDak. I bought a flowmaster muffler, took it to a shop, and had them bend pipes to fit exactly what I wanted. I put the 2.5in pipes exiting throught the back between my bumper and trailor hitch. My 3in body lift allowed that. But that way, my pipes are protected on high angle entires and exhits on the trails.
TigerDak, where did you get your Stage II chip? I am assuming it is a Jet chip too. I have had a hard time finding it anywhere. And about the 180 deg therm.? Where did you get yours and how much does it run? Thanks man. Us Gen I daks need to stick together! Well show them newer ones up yet...
Thanks, Joe E.
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Tom Baker
Dodge Dakota
11/28/2001
10:25:57
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
Hey joe,
I read you message and you said to do the headers and intake first... what did you mean by intake??? I want to make sure i know exactly what i am doing before i start...
Thanks, Tom Baker
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Joe E.
Dodge Dakota
11/28/2001
11:25:54
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
Tom, I mean a cold air intake something like from K&N. They do not sell a FIPK, (fuel injection performance kit), for our daks. But with a little work your dak have have the same mods. Just take the stock acordian tube running from the grille to the air hat. Remove it totally. Get some 3in PVC and a 90 deg. elbow. And of course a K&N cone filter. Basically make a tube to replace the stock tube and remove the paper, stock, air filter and let the K&N do the work. Then make a heat shield out of some fiberglass or heat shield and place it between the filter right befind the grill and the motor. It allows only cool air to enter the filter, and engine, allowing for greater HP and Performance.
My system definitly helped my performance. I would resomend it over any other first mod. It cost me maybe $50 bucks, $60 at most to do this. Very worth while.
Good luck
Joe E.
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TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
11/28/2001
13:38:38
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
Tom, just Jerry rig your air intake system. That means throwing away your huge, black, ugly stock air box and installing a K&N filter on top of your throttle body injectors.
Joe, the Stage II chip was purchased from summit racing for about $220. They provide a 90-day, no questions asked money back warranty.
Joe is right, do the Stage II chip LAST, after the air intake and exhaust upgrades. Wait and then buy the STage II chip. Did we mention the Stage II chip requires 91 octane?
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Tom Baker
Dodge Dakota
11/28/2001
19:22:11
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
I have finally got all this in my head... thank you so much... I have the K&N, now I need headers, a stage II chip, and less restrictive exhaust. I only have one question... These headers, will they bolt up the same as the stock manifolds, or will i have to have all new pipe made to accomidate them... meaning I understand that they bolt to the heads the same way, i just mean will the exiting end bolt up to the stock "Y" tube? Point being that about 3 months ago I put new exhaust on my truck... new cat, and a "TURBO MUFFLER". Will this be sufficient? or what will i have to do? Can i just replace the headers by bolting them at the heads and at bottom coupling... or do I have to have a new pipe made to accomindate the headers...
Thanks again, Tom Baker
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Joe E.
Dodge Dakota
11/28/2001
21:44:28
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
The edlebrock headers are made to be a direct replacement. If you did not change the position of yout stock Y-pipe, you should have no problem.
I just had a shop cut off my CAT today. Boy does it make a exhaust tone difference. I could not believe how much throater my 3.9L sounds. I also noticed a slight HP gain, but nothing huge. But hey, every little bit counts.
TigerDak, if I bought a Jet Stage I chip, could I still use 87 Octain gas. My truck gets bad enough MPG and to have to fill her up with the exp. gas would but me in th poor house. The Stage I chip also gives 20 HP right. Compared to the Stage II 25 or something.
Thanks again all of you and Tom, I hope our past expierences have helped you out alittle. This site sure has but me into new directions thanks to people like TigerDak, Blizzard, Walt, etc.
Thanks, Joe E.
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TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
11/29/2001
00:07:30
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
Yes you can use 87 octane with the Stage I chip. Only the Stage II chip will require 91 octane (about $.20) more expensive here in Utah). But I doubt you are/will see 20 hp gain with a Stage I. I think JET's claims are true and accurate -- for a V8! In our little V6's, I'd bet around 12 hp gain for a STage II, but that is just a guess.
Tom, I'd be surprised if your headers fit nicely on your Y-pipe from your previous exhaust upgrade. I hope! But I doubt it. They will bolt on just fine onto the engine block, but I still doubt they will fit nicely into your exhaust pipes that you have right now. Usually its accompanied by new 2.5" pipes going into the cat (or muffler). Your new cat and turbo muffler can remain just fine. Good to hear you have already made those changes.
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Tom Baker
Dodge Dakota
11/29/2001
11:13:07
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
I know that this is a little off of the beaten path, but would either of you guys know where I could go to get a fog light switch... you know the green one down by your right knee in the sport models.?!!?!? Mine still works, but no longer lights up... I LOVE THIS WEBSITE!!!
Thanks again, Tom Baker
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TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
11/29/2001
11:43:42
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
Mine is green and I thought it was from the previous owner. I guess its not if you have the same thing. You can go to any auto parts place like Auto Zone or Schucks to get one. It might be a little different style or color, but who cares? Installation should be a cinch I'd assume. Those light things are plentiful.
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Joe E.
Dodge Dakota
11/29/2001
15:57:58
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
Yeah, I have 2 of those on my truck right now. But they are not green, their blue and red. But I installed them myself, there not stock on my LE model. One goes to my off-road lights, the other to my driving lights in put in the air dam. Enough blabing on my end. Yeah, Tom you were right, I LOVE THIS SITE! too.
Talk to yall later.
Joe E.
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Spyder343
Dodge Dakota
11/30/2001
05:44:38
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
Hey Tom, great to see another GenI on the site. In addition to the mods Tiger and Joe recommended, I would recommend upgrading your ignition system. New spark plug wires, a hotter coil, and a capacitive discharge ignition controller worked wonders for my '89 3.9. I went with the MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor wires, MSD Blaster II ignition coil, and an MSD 6A Ignition control module. MSD, Jacobs, Accel, and a few others make performance ignition products. I have never tried a system other than MSD, so I can't really comment on them, but I am extremely happy with the performance increases (or at the very least the increase in responsiveness, especially at the top-end) that I have noticed.
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Joe E.
Dodge Dakota
11/30/2001
14:32:30
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
Hey Spyder343, what s. plugs you running? I am looking to do this ingition stuff too. I got my hands on a Jacobs Ing. coil. so i will probably go the rest of the way with them. Thanks,
Joe E.
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Joe E.
Dodge Dakota
12/02/2001
12:36:41
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
TigerDak, or anyone with a Gen I with Headers. I am having a big problem with my header installation. I started with the right side header, figuring that it would be harder due to less clearence. Got it in and it looks great.
However, The Left side!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I took the OEM stuff out. Started to place the header in and found I have a clearence problem between the outside part of the header and the steering shaft. Not much off, but enough to make it not work. There is also a oxy sensor right in the spot I am having clearence problems with, that is not used. Its a 2wd 3.9L. One possible reason, is a 3in body lift. Would that effect clearence? Thanks for your help.
Joe E.
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TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
12/02/2001
20:56:36
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
I'm not sure if the 3" body lift is the culprit or not, but it could be. When my Mopar headers were installed, they had to reconfigure that area due to the emissions connections that runs from the smog pump into the right side's headers. So what you are experiencing is normal. Maybe you can relocated the oxygen sensor somewhere else? Are the header pipes fitting onto the Y-pipe OK?
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m.e.creswick
Dodge Dakota
12/03/2001
14:09:34
|  RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
do any of you guys have any idea what it would
take to put a 318 v8 in an 88 2wd dakota
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Joe E.
Dodge Dakota
12/03/2001
18:37:10
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
TigerDak, I think everything is going to work out. The headers fit and everything, I guess if you Dont have a baody lift. But I out smarted them somewhat. Maybe hurt myslef I dont know. The problem I was having was right were the oxy sensor was suppost to go, my steering colomn was. So I had a conflict. But my buddy took the header to his weld shop and torched the oxy nut off. Then he welded a plate over it. After that, it almost fit, but it rubbed alittle. So I got ahold of another froend witha torch at his home and heated the metal up a bit, and gently pressed the tube in a hair. I installed them but with the damn gasket, I was rubbing again. So I am going to get a grinder and slim down that steering shaft a bit. There is a place on it where it has been nicked I guess. I will remove it and everything will be good. Thanks for the help and I will report later.
Thanks, Joe E.
Oh yeah, the truck sounds deep too. Really nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Spyder343
Dodge Dakota
12/05/2001
02:22:55
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
Hey Joe. Sorry it took so long to respond, but for some reason I haven't been able to get on the site for the past couple of weeks. This is only the second time since Thanksgiving! To answer your question, I use Champion truck plugs. I don't remember the part number off hand, but if you go into a parts store and ask for them, they should have em.
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Joe E.
Dodge Dakota
12/05/2001
20:29:52
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
Thanks Spyder. I will look into that.
I almost have my headers straightened out. I had that clearence problem with the left side. But I have took a grinder and some other friends handy work and have just about got it all fixed.
I have an exhaust leak somewhere. I figure it is in the smog system. How do these trucks run with out that whole system? I have been told to cut the belt that runs to the smog unit. But I also have read in repair manuals that the smog system helps the truck run better. Any comments.
Thanks yall.
Joe E.
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Spyder343
Dodge Dakota
12/05/2001
20:43:56
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
I heard from Bernd that the smog pump doesn't hurt performance that much. I would just leave the system in place, if only just to make your truck run cleaner. I don't know if it's a concern for you, but I just had to replace two valves and the pump about nine months ago. It would not pass emissions without it. It's really up to you, but you probably won't notice any difference without it. How do you think there is an exhaust leak in your smog system? The pump just pumps air into the catalytic converter to burn off any excess fuel, and I think there is only one inlet in the exhaust system for it on the cat. Have you gotten under the truck when its cold and checked for exhaust leaks?
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TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
12/05/2001
20:54:25
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
The smog pump takes the unburned air and deposits it in the cat for final combustion. I cut my belt off about two years and have never looked back. I found out recently that the Borla exhaust I installed is only about 2 or 2.25" of flow-through within it. I'm going to get a Dynomax Race Magnum muffler installed in its place, to give me a true 2.5" all the way out without any restrictions.
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Joe E.
Dodge Dakota
12/06/2001
23:01:44
| RE: 1990 3.9
IP: Logged
Message:
Hey guys,
I think there is an exhaust leak for one reason, there is a clicking sound when I punch the gas. And its loud. It really messes up my deep tone. I am certain it is where the smog pipes bolt to the headers. I half ass put them back on thinking that I would cut it off anyway. But I am not a pollution guy so I think I will leave it working. Since it makes no HP difference.
And about that cold weather thing and the exhaust ckeck. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.. I live in S. Fla. The coldest it is here right now is at night where it plummelts into the upper 60's. Wow, some cold for Dec. huh. I am so irritated at Old man winter. He is pissen me off with this hot waether stuff. I WANT COLD!!! I get enough hot in the summer.
Anyways, I am going to re check those smog tubes.
I just had a thought. Scarry I know. My CAt conv. is gone. The smog tube that intered it has been removed. It just opens out under the truck. Does nothing. So why keep the smog stuff? Its doing nothing anyways. Does it effect the way a Dak runs? Some trucks, if you remove that system, it throws everything else outa wack.
Sorry for the book of a message. And thanks guys...
Until later. Joe E.
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Spyder343
Dodge Dakota
12/07/2001
18:24:45
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
If it is doing nothing now, you should remove the system entirely. I guess I missed that you don't have a cat. Basically, by just pumping the air into the atmosphere, the system is simply a waste of HP, allbeit a miniscule amount. You should probably just scrap it. By the way, wouldn't the mounting bracket for the smog pump make an excellent location for a supercharger?!
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Joe E.
Dodge Dakota
12/07/2001
20:35:00
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Spyder, thanks for the help.
I am thinking about taking the smog thing out if I can. What exactly do you have to do to remove it? I guess, cut the smog pump belt. Then remove the pump itself off of the mount. Then remove the hoses and the tubes from the headers and plug those holes. Then what? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.
Joe E.
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TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
12/07/2001
22:09:23
| RE: 1990 3.9
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I think there are a couple of emission things that sit on top of the intake manifold. The two things that sit to the right of the TBI, on top of the manifold. The ECR valve and something else. I cant remember the name. This past holiday my brother and I almost took it all off, but I thought that someday I might be faced with living in a county that does emissions testing, so I thought I'd better leave it on. But taking everything off shouldnt be too hard of a task.
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Jack
Dodge Dakota
12/29/2001
00:06:13
| RE: 1990 3.9
IP: Logged
Message:
Tom did you ever get the horse power you where looking for?
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Tom Baker
Dodge Dakota
12/29/2001
00:40:32
| RE: 1990 3.9
IP: Logged
Message:
No, I didn't... I keep readin all this stuff about the headers and how they don't fit... I would much ratherfind a supercharger or something... I absolutly hate an exhaust leak... Do you have any suggestions?
I am looking for the most power I can get and still keep it close to original, If thats possible...
Thanks, Tommy B.
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JW
Dodge Dakota
12/29/2001
02:18:21
|  RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
Joe E.
I took all the emissions pump & hoses off my '89 4X4 Sport when I installed my Edelbrock headers. It doesn't affect performance at all and makes the engine bay a whole lot cleaner. I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in on some other good pre magnum mods that work: Realize this: you clean up the intake & exhaust (K&N filter, edelbrock headers, 2.5" exhaust & performance muffler), you have an engine that runs constantly lean. The onboard computer will rich up the injectors as far as it can to accommodate the added air flow, but it's not enough. If you browse the "Magnum" guys, or talk to a Mopar guru like I did, they'll tell you that you need larger injectors to work with the added airflow capacity. Go to a wrecker or salvage and pull the injectors from an '89-91 318 (5.2) out of a RAM or van or something and replace the two 3.9 injectors with those 5.2 injectors (3.9 injectors are 50PPH, 5.2 injectors are 65PPH). Now that added airflow will start making power. Next, replace your stock 1.5 ratio rocker arms with a set of Crane Cams ductile iron 1.6 ratio shaft mount rocker arms and pushrods (check www.cranecams.com) for 6.6% more valve lift. Note: Nobody makes a performance cam for the 3.9 that's tbi or computer friendly but increasing the rocker arm ratio makes the engine think you did get a performance cam. Next, checkout March pulleys to get an underdrive crank pulley to recover a few more hp. Next, pull the fan and shroud out and add an electric fan conversion (mine is KoolKlutch 16" fan and variable thermostat) to send another 8 - 10 hp back to the wheels.
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Joe E.
Dodge Dakota
12/29/2001
22:51:07
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
JW, man you are very well versed on this pre mag stuff. I am impressed! I am in the process of looking for a set of 5.2L pre-mag fuel injectors. Maybe they will help my HP out somewhat. About the rocker arms and stuff, what type of performance gain are to be expected with them? Are they worth he big money they require to get?
Oh yeah, When I go to look for a set of 5.2L injectors, and find a set, what can I look for in order to know if they are in good condition? Are their any signs that I can look for to avoid buying a "nasty" pair? Thanks alot guys, your all a life saver on this!
Have a nice holiday.
Joe E.
Tom, about the header installing problems. The only reason I had these problems is due to my 3in body lift. By lifting the body 3ins off the frame, my angle of the drive shaft was made steeper. Just enough to hinder the new headers. But I worked my way around it with a small grinder and shaved the steering shaft on the corners and they work fine now. Go for they man, they do make a good differecne in performance!
Joe E.
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JW
Dodge Dakota
12/30/2001
13:52:05
| RE: 1990 3.9
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Message:
Joe,
There is NOBODY else who will help us Gen 1 guys.
I've been researching Gen1's for over a year now on the net, & in parts shops. There have been a lot of frustration. Talk about no life! I'm building up a white 89' Dakota Sport 4x4 to look like Walt Felix's red one. (check out the raised dakota forum for pics.) By the way, by reading this forum you've helped me. I already have the Edelbrock headers on, and wanted a body lift. I noticed the header/steering shaft interference problem right away. As a result, I got the Performance Accessories 2" body lift to avoid that, but I still wasn't sure about the clearance. If your 3" fits after minor grinding, I'm more certain that the 2" lift will be ok. I already got my Trailmaster 4" suspension lift and 32X11.5 on 15X8 white spokes. I wrote you back in the other forum about the injectors but to recap, wash them with gas, blow them out, hook one pin to a battery charger. Touch the other pin. If it "ticks", it's good, if it makes no sound, it's dead. Thanks see ya!
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JW
Dodge Dakota
12/30/2001
14:25:18
| RE: 1990 3.9
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PS.
As for hp, I really don't know. But you installed your headers and like me, you noticed a difference. Wait 'til you match the fuel to the airflow! I noticed just as big a difference again after the headers with the injectors. With the Crane rocker arms, I'm hoping for at least as big an improvement again since there will be less restriction at the cylinder. My goal is to push the stock 125 hp as close to 200 hp with relatively cheap bolt on parts. $2000 - $3000 supercharger I consider relatively EXPENSIVE! I feel it's a realistic goal, and attainable. Dodge definately left a lot of room for improvement in these engines, and let's face it, the only complaint is the hp right. These are one torquey little engine.
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