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Rockn blk dak
Dodge Dakota
10/22/2001
20:31:27
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 Subject: Awesome cam!
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Message:
Hey I was reading a magazine the other day and i stumbled across an ad for comp cams energhizer cam. It was for trucks so I figured oh boy!, only to see that it is not available for my engine yet I was wondering if we could bug these people, maybe they would considered making one for the 4.7
The ad said an increase in 76hp and 55tq.Any body have any ideas on how to go about this I would do anything for one, well almost anything.
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CW
Dodge Dakota
10/22/2001
22:24:37
|  RE: Awesome cam!
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About the only way you will get that much HP out of one part is if you bolt on a supercharger.
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Dodgeman
Dodge Dakota
10/23/2001
03:36:37
| RE: Awesome cam!
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Surprisingly a cam has a LOT to do with HP and tq. It's all in the duration. You can get a 350 Chevy to turn 400hp with the right cam and 10:1 pistons(according to Comp Cams). The duration on that cam wasn't 'that' bad, but not good as a daily, just as a weekender. As soon as I find my Comp Cams mag I'll tell ya what the duration was. I think it's mymopar.com that has Magnium cams.
Dodgeman
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Dodgeman
Dodge Dakota
10/23/2001
11:46:47
| RE: Awesome cam!
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Message:
Lift is also a big factor...forgot to add that
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alex
Dodge Dakota
10/23/2001
13:39:17
| RE: Awesome cam!
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Yeah, well, don't forget. The 4.7's have two cams.
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Knobbyman
GenIII
10/23/2001
13:50:25
| RE: Awesome cam!
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I can't wait till there are enough GOOD parts to rebuild our 4.7's with big performance gains.
'01 Graphite QC 4x4
4.7 3.55 LSD
http://www.knobbyman.com
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CyberWolf
Dodge Dakota
10/23/2001
14:19:24
|  RE: Awesome cam!
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Most cam companies can turn your stock cam to have higher lift and longer duration to any spec that you require. It's called "custom grind". Comp, Lunati, Isky, and several other large cam companies can do this for you. Also, companies like JE, Keith Black, and several other piston companies can make a custom set of pistons for just about anything including lawnmowers. There are parts available for the 4.7. You just have to know enough about engine building to get the right ones. People get so wrapped up in the bolt ons they forget about the basics such as head, cam, and piston work.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
10/23/2001
21:10:39
| RE: Awesome cam!
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Watch out for some cam grinds. Often a cam company figures out a good lift and duration for something like a 350 chevy and then just applies it to the mopar 360 thinking it will react the same. There are so many other differences between the chevy 350 and mopar 360 besides 10 inches. just look at a company's specs for two cams called say the "enforcer" series and look at the lift/duration on the chevy compared to the Mopar. If they are identical you can bet they did development on the Chevy and then just cut the same thing on a mopar shaft. I have alsways trusted the Mopar Performance grinds as you know their stuff is developed specifically for the intended application. Modern motor will not respond as well from a cam change as say something from the 80's. The Dodge 360 in my ramcharger was only rated at like 180 HP, I can see it getting 80 HP from a new cam but not my 250 hp R/T. I bet the factory cams on the 4.7 are even more agressive. The 4.7 HO does use different cams so mopar has something you could order to pick up a few more ponies. They are probably one of the major factors in the HO making 260 hp (or 265 depending on the source).
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moparjoe20
Dodge Dakota
10/23/2001
22:44:18
| RE: Awesome cam!
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Hate to say it but I think the 4.7 will be like the 4.6 ford , ok in stock form but very expensive to modify, one of my friends had a 4.6 and in order to make 450 reliable hp it was going to cost between $12,000 and $15,000. It was the things like cams($700-$1000), con rods($600-$1200), pistons($700-$1000), blower($3,500+),porting($1,200+),etc that makes it expensive.You can get cheaper,proven,and more reliable power out of a 360 or a 318.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
10/23/2001
23:02:07
| RE: Awesome cam!
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Yeah, I was just reading more about the 4.7, not only would the 4.7 cost more to "cam" as it has 2, but the cams are different in that they are hollow for oiling. I don't see any of the traditional cam companies coming out with a simple inexpensive cam upgrade anytime soon for the 4.7. The connecting rods and pistons on the 4.7 are top notch to begin with so I couldn't see any reason to change them, but on those lines don't expect any kind of stroker kit either. If you want an inexpensive cam upgrade for the 4.7 just go rent a new Jeep overland and swap the cams out in you garage! It's probably easier then then changing the cam on a 360/318. Don't laugh, this kind of thing has gone on with rental cars since you could rent Shelby Mustangs back in the 60's, another reason not to buy used rental cars.
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GlenC
GenIII
10/24/2001
21:49:42
| RE: Awesome cam!
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omg, thats such a good idea........... i gotta go rent a jeep overland!
GlenC
'01, CC, SLT, 4.7, Auto, 3.55 LS
Gibson single catback.
Robert Shaw 180 T-Stat. Autolite 3923s
JBA Headers.
Kenne Bell supercharged.
Roadmaster active suspension.
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CyberWolf
Dodge Dakota
10/25/2001
14:22:54
| RE: Awesome cam!
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Message:
Hersbird, the pistons in the 4.7 are far from top notch. They are actually one of the cheapest pistons you can buy. They are only cast. Not hypereutectic or forged, but cast. Not only that, the deck thickness is fairly thin and the top ring is too close to the top (1/8"). If I were to rebuild a 4.7 I would definately look into a piston from either Keith Black or JE.
I am not certain about the rods but I am sure they aren't a billet H-beam rod either. There could be a lot to be desired in a set of performance rods also.
I agree with you on the cam grinding. You need to be careful but if you do enough research and talk with enough professional engine builders you should be able to come up with specs that would be perfect for your application. And of course, go with a well known cam company to assure that you get a quality grind. Don't let regrinds fool you though. A regrind can be just as good if not better than a brand new cam. It's also fairly inexpensive. I like the rental car idea also. lol
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CW
Dodge Dakota
10/25/2001
14:30:26
|  RE: Awesome cam!
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They are a powered forged rod with a cracked cap design. Thinner rings as well all emissions or cost effective resoning behind it all I guess.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
10/25/2001
23:04:38
| RE: Awesome cam!
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I agree the pistons are really nothing special but they do have chrome moly rings wich the 360 does not. The connecting rods are a better peice IMO then traditional forged steel I-beam type. The big thing is they weigh about 550 grams each compared to more like 750 grams on the 5.2/5.9. Thats a lot of weight not to have to throw up or down 24,000 times a minute. And those cracked caps are a good idea as well. The top ring is close to the top of the piston for emissions only and that actually increases the heat and wear.
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Huh?
Dodge Dakota
10/26/2001
01:22:21
| RE: Awesome cam!
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Herbird
Your telling me that you have 4.7 that revs to 12,000 RPM!!! I've heard about the top end power the 4.7 has, but that id going overboard.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
10/26/2001
01:31:14
| RE: Awesome cam!
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The way people talk about the 4.7 you would think it's possible! I actually have a 5.9. I was incorrectly thinking of the 4 cycles to get a cumbustion, but forgot a revolution counts whatever stroke is taking place. So it should be 12,000 every minute (at 6,000 rpm) 6000 up and 6000 down. Sorry.
PS- I really can't believe somebody made up a new user name just to break my balls!
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GlenC
GenIII
10/26/2001
12:27:27
| RE: Awesome cam!
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Maybe im losing my mind, but understood what he said. :( Yeah, i need more coffee.
GlenC
'01, CC, SLT, 4.7, Auto, 3.55 LS
Gibson single catback.
Robert Shaw 180 T-Stat. Autolite 3923s
JBA Headers.
Kenne Bell supercharged.
Roadmaster active suspension.
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aggie97
Dodge Dakota
10/27/2001
18:53:16
| RE: Awesome cam!
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Message:
I may be mistaken, but on the rings being "chrome Moly" rings in the 4.7 is a farse. There is no such thing as chrome moly rings......From hot rod TV on TNN.
Truck Performance has the crower rockers for the 5.9 for $440 on sale. i am beginning to think it is time to buy these.
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CW
Dodge Dakota
10/27/2001
22:15:34
| RE: Awesome cam!
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Good eye aggie97 they are probably moly coated rings. I measured them and they are like under 1/16 of a inch. Good for drag bad for wear but we will see what happens with these engines.
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Jeffster
Dodge Dakota
10/27/2001
22:16:27
| RE: Awesome cam!
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Message:
I think you've got it right aggie. The entire piston is molly treated not the rings. At least that's my understanding when I researched the internals.
IMHO The pistons are the weakest link if trying to produce serious power from this engine. With forged pistons and billet crank and rods this motor should easily (relativly) be able to produce 450HP and rev to 7,500 RPM's. Sometimes I wish I had the R/T myself because it's much easier to mod and more proven but at the same time I enjoy the great gas milage, hard aceleration through the gears and 6,000 RPM limiter on a near stock truck.
Not much to say but Dak's rule weather it's as a fast nimble sport truck like mine or the R/T or as a bad as.. 4X4 QC like Blizzards. They have the best balance of power and looks on the planet IMHO.
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