| From | Message |
Bakerman
Dodge Dakota
8/08/2001
10:03:11
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 Subject: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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It's Z-Tube, ala Bakerman. Tell me what you think.
The 'ol butt dyno definately registers a gain, and the sounds eminating from the engine bay around >3K with part throttle will make you wet your pants. This thing sounds awesome! Pretty cheap too, I'm in under $50 and $35 of that was the filter. Everything is avialable at your local Home Depot/Lowes/HQ/etc. Two Fernco 3" quick elbows, two pieces of 3" PVC, and a K&N 3510 (I think, I can double check the number). Anybody done anything similar to this?
http://www.alltel.net/~bdbake01/truckeng2b.jpg
Anyone know how to post a pic on this thing?
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HardCharger
Dodge Dakota
8/08/2001
13:19:03
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Message:
Man, that looks great. It looks better than some of the $200 plus set-ups for the dakotas.
I have a 96 which still uses the big round filter holder for the drop in round filter so I can't fashion something like you did.
Anyways, we should all have your ingenuity. It would definately scare the "professionals" who design these systems for a living.
DC
96 RC 2WD V6
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Bakerman
Dodge Dakota
8/08/2001
13:22:50
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Message:
thanks for the comments! I forgot to mention, I ported the crap out of the throttle body too. didn't enlarge the bore, but straightened it out bigtime. all and all, this was some easy stuff to do.
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HardCharger
Dodge Dakota
8/08/2001
14:47:46
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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What year is your truck??
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Bakerman
Dodge Dakota
8/08/2001
14:55:32
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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it's a 2001, Sport Plus, 4x4, almost every option, 4.7 Auto.
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2000dak4.7
Dodge Dakota
8/08/2001
15:50:12
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Message:
Looks great, beats paying $150+ for an intake.
What did you do about the little 1" hose that comes out of the stock air box and connects to another tube that runs to both sides of the engine?
What is this tube for?
Thanks,
Erik
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Bakerman
Dodge Dakota
8/08/2001
16:38:10
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Aha! Someone went out and looked at their engine. It's not shown in the pictures, since it's behind the tube. I had two ideas. One, was use a little electrical pvc fitting that was 3/4" 90 degree elbow with a ferrel fitting on one end and a thread w/bushing on the other end and install that into the rubber elbow by the filter. The other was to use a K&N crankcase breather filter. It's about 1.5" diameter mini filter with a neck on it that is made to stick into these breather hoses. I didn't want to spend the money for that, like $10 probably, so I bought the $1.72 elbow. Well, the elbow would have worked perfectly, but a friend of mine came by last night and said, "Hey, I have an extra crankcase breather filter, you want it?". So, of course, I said Yes! So that's what I'm using. Better that way anyway, since there is a very slight possibility of that elbow introducing some restriction in the intake anyway. You could also get some oil mist into the intake. Any losses from either of these is theoretical at best, but hey, why tempt fate?
Very observant of you.
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jj
Dodge Dakota
8/08/2001
16:41:05
|  RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Look`s Great ! Whats the correct Part # for the K&N .I looked up 3510 and its a round filter. Also Where did you install the pvc hose? Did the fernco rubber hook directly to the air filter ? Thanks in advance ! jj
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2000dak4.7
Dodge Dakota
8/08/2001
16:50:23
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Bakerman,
Can you please post a picture with the crankcase filter in view please if possible, I am curious.
Thanks,
Erik
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Bakerman
Dodge Dakota
8/08/2001
16:55:21
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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The correct K&N part number is RC-2530, don't know where I got that other number?? Here's a link to Martelbros.com, where I ordered it. Decent price and good service, less than a week on it.
http://www.martelbros.com/cgi-bin/store/ws400CS.cgi?store=KNN&view_item=RC-2530&cart_id=1010808045507577&page=knn/knindex.html&dci=
Good possibility the link won't work, being a cgi, but goto www.martelbros.com and look up the RC-2530 part and you'll find it.
Did you mean the PCV hose? the little hose in the airbox? if so, read my last post. If you mean the PVC tube, it's inbetween the two rubber elbows. I painted it black, and yes, it really does look that good. I had two people today swear up and down that I didn't make it! The other piece of PVC went in between the last fernco and the filter, just a little oh say 2" stub, just enough for the fernco and the filter to hook onto good. I'll tell you right now, 3" PVC is more than 3" on the outside diameter, and the inside diameter of the K&N is less than 3", so it's a tight fit. I soaked the base of the filter in some hot water and left the little PVC stub in the freezer for about a half hour, and they slipped right together fairly easy. I don't think you can do it while they're both at room temp. But, rest assured, it's a good seal!
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Bakerman
Dodge Dakota
8/08/2001
17:00:28
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Message:
I can, but it might take me awhile. The camera I used was borrowed, and I had to return it. But here's a pic of them from K&N's website. I think I have the 1015, it is chromed.
http://www.knfilters.com/images/cvfsb.jpg
They have different varieties, here's the page you can view them all from:
http://www.knfilters.com/vent.htm
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Dennis
Dodge Dakota
8/08/2001
17:10:54
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Message:
Hmmm Ok so when do you start accepting orders ?
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jj
Dodge Dakota
8/08/2001
17:17:47
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Message:
Thank you Bakerman! I called martel but out of stock(rc2530).Will try autozone.So How many hoses total get drilled into the tube? 1for pvc and also another one ?can the pvc hose be pressed into the tube if you drill it a bit undersized?I dont Know if you`ve read what hawkeye did ,but I think I`ll do that untill I can locate this air filter,as I already bought all the stuff your kit calls for,(except air filter)and have the stock box with a K&N filter for it.jj
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2000dak4.7
Dodge Dakota
8/08/2001
18:08:11
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Message:
Bakerman,
What is the diameter of the vent on the crankcase filter that you used? Also, what diameter filter would you recommend, 2" or 3", and what height, 1.5" or 2"?
Thanks,
Erik
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Anthony
Dodge Dakota
8/08/2001
18:26:36
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Message:
Check out my homebrewed system at www.geocities.com/intense79/index.html
It doesn't take much to do, but the gain in power and sound was well worth it. It also looks great too. My whole setup cost under $100 (cdn) the K&N filter was alone $70. I still have to build a heat shield.
Anthony
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Bob Mankin
Dodge Dakota
8/09/2001
00:39:07
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Message:
The concern with the ABS and PVC home built intakes is that the materials don't respond very well to the heat and vibration they are subjected to in an engine compartment. That's not to say that you will have problems, but you need to keep a close eye on those type setups. If they get too brittle, they will shatter. If you see any type of crack on the thing, remove it immediately. In a worst case, you end up with plastic bits getting ingested into your motor. Veeerry expensive.
A better option would be to get a good muffler shop to bend you up a metal pipe. Preferrably someone with a mandrel bender. A short piece of pipe formed by someone who knows what they are doing shouldn't cost that much.
Nothing at all wrong with money saving projects, but air intakes are a critical point, IMO. I had a plastic elbow come apart on a Kenne Bell intake I had on my Typhoon years ago. Not a pretty deal. Keep a close eye on those things.
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bernd
Gen III
8/09/2001
00:50:10
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Message:
You mentioned porting the TB...what size did you go up to and what did you do to the TB? (Curious about the larger throttle plate required with porting beyond 69mm)
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged @ 10#
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Blue Travis
Dodge Dakota
8/09/2001
02:08:11
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Message:
If you guys want to build a heat shield, check out the carbon fiber one that I built for my 5.9.
http://www.primenet.com/~travis/heatshield.html
You could adapt something like that for the 4.7. If you can come up with a template I could even build it in either fiberglass or carbon fiber.
Using the foam core makes it really heat resistant. The thin metal one that comes with the Gen II, instantly heat soakes out here in AZ. Plus the Gen II doesn't fit as well either.
Blue Travis
00 IB CC R/T
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dropt98dakota
Dodge Dakota
8/09/2001
10:25:24
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
IP: Logged
Message:
That is slick work you did on that, where abouts did you get the carbon fiber from??
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Bakerman
Dodge Dakota
8/09/2001
10:29:32
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
IP: Logged
Message:
OK, sorry I didn't update last night, had to go racing :D, took the car though, not the truck. Gonna run the truck in a couple of weeks on a full 1/4 track, last night was an 1/8.
jj:
Anyway, Martel Bros. was out of stock when I called too. Not sure that it isn't a special order for Martel anyway, but I couldn't find it in stock anywhere, they all had to order it. But, Martel drop shipped it straight from K&N, so it was at my doorstep in less than a week, and a decent price, I was happy. But if you can find someone who stocks it for a good price, by all means have at it, I don't endorse Martel in any way.
2000dak4.7:
Diameter I used was 1/2". The hose diameter is 1/2" ID, it slips right in, but I put on a hose clamp just to make sure it didn't come off. Also, mine was 2" diameter and 1.5" H, looks pretty much identical to the picture. I guess you could probably use a 5/8 OD vent fitting and it might hold itself, but the filter isn't barbed, so I feel more comfortable with a 1/2" OD filter and a small clamp. As for the overall size, it really doesn't make any differnece whatsoever. It just filters the air for the crankcase, and there's so very little air going through this, literally any filter would work. But it is necessary, otherwise you pull dirt directly into your oiling system everytime you back off the throttle.
Anthony:
Nice job. Do you have any problems with the entire system being rigid? Cracking, etc? just curious. I was afraid of that so that's the main reason I went with the rubber elbows. Well, that and it made the install about as easy as you can get.
Bob:
I have had the system on a month, with no real problems. Only thing that has showed up is where the PVC part rests on one of the heater core tubes, the outside of the pipe has a small indention in it. You can see it, but can't feel it, it's that small, but nevertheless it's still there. Alot of the vibration is absorbed through the rubber elbows, so I'm pretty happy with it. Especially for the price. But thanks for pointing that out, it is always a concern with anything you do yourself.
bernd:
Porting probably wasn't the best word to use. I didn't enlarge the bore at all, just removed ALOT of material infront of the blades. I will try and get pics of the throttle body. If you'll notice, the inlet of the TB is curved and has some ridges to it, now it's polished smooth and glently slopes from the edge up to the blade. I did this before I installed the new intake, and I could see a difference in throttle repsonse, and idle. I used to have a slight "hesitation" for lack of a better word when I nailed the throttle, but no more after this. I have been thinking about having a new blad cnc'd here at work (we have some machining here) and try to enlarge the bore. I would have to have the throttle body machined as well, you can't match the bores by hand.
Blue Travis:
Very nice work my friend. Looks like that one that you have might even work for this setup, the engine compartment is nearly identical anyway. Do you have any good dimensions on that?
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jj
Dodge Dakota
8/09/2001
13:37:50
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
IP: Logged
Message:
Thanks Bakerman,Well after about 16 E-Mails to K&N,They reported back that the fipk for the 4.7 will be ready in ABOUT 2 or 3 months.He said the 4.7 is fighting them and not producing it`s FULL potential !This is whats taking so long. jj
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jj
Dodge Dakota
8/09/2001
13:50:52
|  RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Message:
Dear customer,
Its probably 2 - 3 months out. We are still testing different designs
right now. We want it to make power increases comparable to the 5.2 / 5.9
kits. The 4.7L is fighting us in reaching its full potential.
Thanks for asking, Rick
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Anthony
Dodge Dakota
8/09/2001
18:46:34
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
IP: Logged
Message:
Hey Bakerman, I had no problems with cracks or heat problems. I do have a rubber 3" coupling from the TB to the intake. Heat shouldn't really affect the ABS piping that much, it is pretty thick. PVC I would avoid totally, the walls are too thin. I had the intake free standing with only the TB holding from the clamps on the coupling, this would have be fine but you never know. If you look closely at my intake pics you can see a thin copper wire near the K&N this is attached to the body, to let off pressure on the TB and to minimize movement.
Anthony
www.geocities.com/intense79/index.html
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Blue Travis
Dodge Dakota
8/10/2001
01:28:36
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
IP: Logged
Message:
I bought most of the supplies I needed at
http://www.fibreglast.com/
They have good prices and great service.
I can measure it tomorrow, but basically I made it as big as possible to completly isolate the filter.
Blue Travis
00 IB CC R/T
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Bakerman
Dodge Dakota
8/10/2001
09:17:04
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
IP: Logged
Message:
That's odd Anthony, we must be thinking of some different material. I went down to my truck a minute ago with a caliper and measured the thickness of the PVC, it's 0.216" thick? It's rated at 104psi at 140F, 260psi for 73F. That's pretty stinkin thick for a 3" pipe. I did use schedule 40 pipe, if anyone is really concerned, I guess you could use schedule 80, you can drive a truck over that stuff, it's 0.300" thick and can hold 148psi at 140F. I can stand on this sched 40 pipe, without any worries in the least about collapsing it, and I weigh almost 300lbs.
I found a review on the web citing some differences between the two. It's based on potato gun building (fun stuff, anybody ever done it?) but it's a good example of extreme case.
http://www.ooz.net/~wax/gun.advanced.html#pvcabs
I would like to point out that yes, ABS is probably the better choice for ultimate strength and longevity, but it is more expensive, and harder to find, and is it really going to matter? I mean, we're not talking about extreme pressure, vibration, temperature, or anything else here? Maybe if you are using a turbo or supercharger, then I'd consider it, but I don't believe there's any reason at all to worry about the PVC. I had a similar intake on my old S-10 for 9 years with no problems whatsoever.
Oh, and I forgot to answer one of your questions jj. The PCV tube could be pressed into the elbow if you drilled it a little small, but the elbow I puchased has a small thread depth, so I would be seriously concerned about it working it's way out of the elbow. Also, the elbow had a nut on the back of it, tighten that down on the backside, and you should have no problems at all. I would still drill it a little small though, for sealing purposes.
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Bakerman
Dodge Dakota
8/10/2001
09:19:50
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Message:
One more thing. I was at Autozone yesterday and I noticed they had some crankcase filters similar to the K&N's there in multiple colors, blue, red, and chrome I think. However, they do not have the correct neck size. The neck has an ID of 3/8" and an od of about 3/4" or more. The tube will not fit over the neck. I guess one could use a couple of barbed fittings, say 1/2" and 3/8" to adapt it if you really wanted the color, just a suggestion.
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jj
Dodge Dakota
8/10/2001
14:18:18
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Message:
Cool patato gun! I made one years ago,but shoot lemons,and dont have a silencer. Used a coleman lantern ignitor,and butane based hair spray as fuel.We shot it this 4th of july,still works great. jj
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Bakerman
Dodge Dakota
8/10/2001
15:14:05
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
IP: Logged
Message:
I read what Hawkeye did. We keep this up and we'll have a good resource for us all.
But, even though I haven't seen any loss of power AT ALL, I'd still like to reset the PCM. Do I have to pull any fuses, or is pulling the Negativee on the battery good enough?
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Kris239
Gen II
8/10/2001
15:36:27
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Message:
Ahh yes, I miss building potato guns and having wars against my friends. Man, it's a good thing the cops never caught us. I still remember hearing that loud thug with a long blue flame shooting out and seeing everyone on the other side hit the deck. I should build one that fits in the back of the truck and raises like a missile launcher.
Kris Harnack
1994 Dodge Dakota SLT
3.9L V6 / RC / SB / Auto
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Bakerman
Dodge Dakota
8/10/2001
15:44:15
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Message:
ah, the good 'ol days. Glad I've grown out of that.
Wait a minute....nevermind about that last comment.
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dakdakdak
Dodge Dakota
8/10/2001
18:42:35
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Message:
Here is what I found on Ebay. Seems to be what people are discussing and i was gonna make my own but may bid on this ebay auction. Should I place my bid? Bid starting at $78.80.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=594168105
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aggie97
Dodge Dakota
8/10/2001
19:00:15
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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I am thinking of doing something similar to your intake but I plan on building a box out so some sheet metal to keep the heat away from the intake but here is the trick guys....It is going to be ram air!!! there is just enough room to route a square to round gutter adapter just to the outside of my radiator directly behind the grille. I will have to remove the little rubber trim piece and that is about it. Now the box is going to be complicated but the hard part is how I will keep water out of the box. If anything, it should be a cold air intake and at speed I am sure there will some ram effect. Don't have alot of time as of late but If I finish soon I will post pics and impressions. Wish me luck.
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jj
Dodge Dakota
8/10/2001
19:40:48
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Message:
hey dakdakdak , It depends on how handy you are. the one on e-bay looks alot like bakermans. Build it yourself for 50 bucks or buy one on e-bay for 90 bucks.Or wait 3 months for K&N to come out with their version.Knowing K&N it will be about 250 bucks.What to do?I decided to wait and in the meantime use hawkeye`s set up,Using the 3" rubber 90(fernco)inplace of the stock airhat and stock airbox without the snorkel and a couple 1.5"holes drilled into the side & back for extra breathing,This has worked out very good,sounds great. good luck ,jj
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jj
Dodge Dakota
8/10/2001
19:48:33
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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The one on E-bay does look very good though, jj
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Bakerman
Dodge Dakota
8/11/2001
08:57:27
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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anybody else notice that I posted my pics on the 8th, and this auction opened up on the 9th? Could be a coincidence? I hate the little hose thingy for the PCV tube though, that's just ugly.
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dakdak
Dodge Dakota
8/11/2001
23:49:13
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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4" inside diamter cone filter through summitracing.com is $39.39 (knn-re-0870) plus 6.95 for shipping. Build for $50?? Probably not. More like $60 to $65 with all the ABS piping. hmmmmmm..... May be better to get the one from Ebay and try it out for 30 days. If it works, then saved time and frustration of building one. I'll watch the auction and probably bid at the last second.
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Lesley
Dodge Dakota
8/12/2001
00:34:43
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
IP: Logged
Message:
What IS that little hose thingy?
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jj
Dodge Dakota
8/12/2001
00:58:45
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Read Mr. Bakermans First Post, Go to martels for the filter its $35,fernco at the depot 4.98 each X2,,3" abs 2.98,1' 3/4" hoss .99 cents,so it`s ABOUT 50 Bucks. Sounds like you might be better off with the one at E-bay , jj
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Doug McCoach
Dodge Dakota
8/12/2001
12:32:09
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Bakerman, I did the exact same intake mod a few months ago. Only difference is I used white pvc & painted it with black heat paint inside & out(I didn't know they had the black pvc @ the time) & I extended the filter part down a little further & also used tie raps to prevent the intake from resting on anything hot. Other than that we have the exact same mod & I too am happy with the sound/performance. The 3" rubber elbow has some slack which will allow room to grow in case we want to upgrade to a bigger TB. The only other difference is I paid about $70 total using a big K&N $43 filter.
2000 QC 4x4 Auto 3.55's 4.7L V8
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Bakerman
Dodge Dakota
8/12/2001
22:28:47
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
IP: Logged
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OK, jj's right, I'm probably a little over $50, but not much. I wasn't meaning to say that you could definately get it under $50, rather than point out that it's a crapload less expensive than a Z-Tube with a 9" Big-mouth, around $275 I think? I'm not implying that it performs, looks, sounds, etc. better than the Z-Tube either, but for me it was money WELL spent, more so than any additional gains from the Z-Tube, and I'm happy with it, my pocket book is happy with it, and most importantly, my wife is happy (and she let me do it!!). I spent $35 on the filter (plus $6.25 shipping I think, that'll probably put me over), $10 in fernco elbows, $3 on the PVC, and I had some paint lying around. So I'm around $55, sorry to mislead. I didn't include the PCV vent, which I should have, but technically it didn't cost me anything. But add the 90 degree elbow/barb fitting, and you're up another $2.77. Still, not bad. I don't think?
I would like to point out that I actually used PVC and painted it with bumper paint there Doug. I didn't paint the inside, I was concerned that it might flake off over time. But tell me, I understand how extending the filter would help support the tube, I've actually been thinking about doing just that, but what did you ty-wrap it to? That's what I'm having trouble with. Been thinking about building a cheap "spacer" to help out.
That's why I'm doing thing btw guys, to help out and put up some ideas/spark interest/bring up new ideas.
One more thing I should point out about the 4" outlet filter. I don't really think it's necessary. It might help, I'm not doubting that since I have no evidence, but look at this. The inside of the 3" PVC is bigger than the throttle body. So is the inside of the 3" fernco elbows. The outlet of the fitler is 3" ID, but so is the PVC. Now, as I pointed out earlier, you have to stretch the filter OVER the PVC, which isn't that hard to do if you do it the way that I spelled it out, using hot water and the freezer, actually quite easy. So, how could the piping reduce the outlet to the filter? There is no restriction there. If you want to spend the extra money for the 4" filter, by all means do it certainly can't hurt, but I don't think you need to. But don't think the 3" is a restriction, it's probably overkill.
Lesley, the little hose thingy is for the crankcase vent. I'm hoping to get pics up of my solution soon.
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Lesley
Dodge Dakota
8/14/2001
23:19:08
| RE: New Intake Mod! Tell me what you think.
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Oh, okay, I backed up and re-read one of your first posts concerning the crank-case hose & filter. Why does the crank case need venting, and why a hose like that, it almost looks like condensation control or something.
I live across from a Home Depot - it's starting to look mighty appealing!
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