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Kowalski
GenIII
11/28/2006
16:49:42
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 Subject: RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally ?
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Yes ,you've probably seen me posting on that thread in the v8 section. That wasn't actually "MOPAR" the parent company that you are referring to though - if you look into it you'll see the site that info came from is just a dealership. There is conflicting information on this subject; you won't see a gain with the HO intake manifold for the '03 and up, but should from the cam change. Others with the newer trucks have reported a gain from this swap. When this site was new, the 4.7 was just coming out, and some noticed they didn't see much of a gain with a switch to catback exhaust like they'd expected with past experience modding - but they did dyno decent gains from the cam swap, reporting most of the torque gain of the whole HO package. I don't believe that's changed. If '03 and up are being made with HO cams, they'd be showing more power in the factory literature - but that is not the case. Otherwise, that would also leave most of the power differnce between the packages to be made by a small increase in compression and more spark advance. While 4.7's respond well to more spark advance, I don't believe that would add up to the complete power gain between the packages. I feel it quite likely the HO cams are still a decent upgrade for the newer trucks. Looking forward to test results.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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HELLO?
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/29/2006
17:15:36
|  RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally ?
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How come a 5.2Magnum has similar torque and horsepower numbers to a 4.7.
Why does a Toyota "4.7L v8 provide 278 hp and 332 lb-ft of torque", but the dodge 4.7 does not, even when compared to a 5.9Magnum (which is 250hp I believe)it doesn't add up.
Now take a look at the 5.7hemi and the 5.9R/T.
The 5.9 has more displacement so if they are built the same were does all that power dissapear to.
WOW, what a difference.
They are all built different!!!
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josh fan
Dodge Dakota
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11/29/2006
18:28:04
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally ?
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No ! It can't be ! Those that I idolize say they are all the same !
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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11/30/2006
00:15:21
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally ?
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If you go back and look at the specs for the 4.7 tundra were they got few more horses stock we got same more torque stock.
Wich personaly I myself would rather have.Dodge coulda done the same but went with torque.It is a truck not a race truck.And Josh fan I dont need no fans thxs.
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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11/30/2006
00:22:56
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally ?
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NO IM WRONG NOW THAT I GO LOOK AT IT ITS GOT MORE TORQUE TO AT LESS RPMS ALSO.TONDRA 313Torque at 3200rpms,Dakota 295 at 4200rpms.Tundra 271 horses at 3200 rpms Dakota 235 at 4200rpms that sucks guess the slanted eyed fellas got it going on!
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Kowalski
GenIII
12/03/2006
08:06:43
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally ?
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Good morning Josh.
Did you go through with the dyno pulls last night ?
If so, how did it go ?
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
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12/03/2006
15:00:48
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally ?
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My normally aspirated 4.7Dak
with only HO cams and origianl bottom end, was dynoed with a few mods.
Using conservative math, it puts out over 260HP, and 360ft/lbs of torque at the crank.
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/03/2006
15:44:01
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally ?
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On monday I said this was gonna take place next saturday Mr Kowlski I would of said this saturday if we were gonna do it yesturday my friend. We have six more days buddy then we will know.I am restless also.Trust me I wish it woulda been last night.I was just reading about the fella that put his intake on and busted the air temp sensor that was a worry for me also.I was extra carfull in that area.
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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12/03/2006
15:49:03
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally ?
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I am sorry if I made it sound like this saturday didnt try to mislead you it will happen.
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Kowalski
GenIII
12/03/2006
16:34:42
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally ?
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Understandable; that can be taken more than one way. We'll be waiting...
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ID 4x4
GenIII
12/03/2006
18:37:29
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally ?
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TexasTodd, can you explain further on your #s? 360 ft/lbs of torque? Cams and a few mod mods got you 60+ ft/lbs of torque?
01 cc 4.7 5-speed 4x4, Rancho lift,4:56 LSD, MBRP exhaust, Superchips
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SAE
Dodge Dakota
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12/04/2006
14:05:22
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally ?
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Does TOYota use SAE HP yet? Or are they still cheating and using HP units that are only used by Jap makers?
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phantom505
Dodge Dakota
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12/04/2006
14:14:55
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally ?
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Well actually you're looking at DOHC and valve timing on the Toyota and it only comes up to not much more HP...not very impressed myself.
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/04/2006
18:54:39
|  RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally ?
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ID 4x4, I'd be glad to explain.
I DID dyno my truck, w/ all 3 SC's settings, and one without. It took two sessions since I had to be running premium for the towing and perf modes.
The ambient conditions were about the same, about 2 weeks apart, and yielded about the same # for a non SC run.
Also, extrapolated crank #'s are numbers from a loss, not a percentage gain, which is slightly different.
My perf SC's, the way I drive my truck (air filter in and on, no short belt, etc.) was
227 hp, and 300 ft/lbs @ the RW.
MY stock (not entirely stock) w/o S/C's was
218 hp and 288 ft/lbs @ the RW!
Subtracting from a # that gives you the end result (actual dynoed #'s) is the extrapolated crank #'s. I've heard of using as high as a 35% loss! I hope not!
I used a conservative #, 18% (conservative for a 2 piece crank)
01 4.7 QC manual 2wd w/ 3.55 rear end
home brew 'true' CAI w/ K&N drop in
HO cams and intake
NO belt driven clutch/fan
NO third cat
S/C's tuner
I do use Mobil 1, etc.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/04/2006
20:38:43
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally ?
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Toyota uses DOHC while the Dodge uses SOHC on about the same size engine.
But since Toyota don't use variable valve timing on their 4.7 and the timing chain simply turns the intake and exhaust cams at the same time then it doesn't change how it makes HP/TQ at all vs a SOHC. In fact. Their engine uses a timing BELT to go from the crank to one of the cams on each head behind a timing belt cover, and then a chain to directly go from the one cam to the other under the valve cover. The Dodge does not use a timing belt, it's all chain drive.
Since Toyota are not doing variable valve timing with the intake cam or anything, basically there is no advantage to their DOHC.
My friends 4.7 Toyota 4X4 4-runner was not able to take my 4X4 Dakota so I don't think there is really any more power in those engines.
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/05/2006
07:21:42
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally ?
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Hey Graph and others,
I'm pretty sure that inline 6 of GM, that they put into the trailblazers, etc., uses variable valve timing, that's how they get so muych HP out of it. I rode in one, and was not impressed when he did a start w/ WOT thru a few gears.
Hey Graph,
How's that CD manual?
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/07/2006
01:05:00
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally ?
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The CD manual came in hand a few times.
I haven't done anything on the Duster in a while, where i will be using it the most!
I think I heard the inline GM had VVT.
I was just mentioning the Toyota 4.7 compared to the Dodge 4.7 because many people think there is a direct difference in power with pushrod valvetrain compared to SOHC compared to DOHC.
DOHC doesn't do crap unless you do VVT with it. Otherwise you can get the same EXACT powerband with pushrod valvetrain or SOHC depending on how you time the cam lobes.
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Kowalski
GenIII
12/07/2006
07:02:30
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally ?
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True about the power bands, many seem to get confused about that. I've noticed many manufacturers are starting to introduce VVT engines too. One advantage I noticed when they started putting DOHC on motorcycles was their ability to operate better breathing heads with 4 valves per cylinder. Does the Toyota have that style head ?
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/07/2006
08:40:39
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally ?
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Well Mr Kowlaski I had a bad turn of events take place Wendsday.A door out at work on a 48 foot trailer vibrated down about two inches while I was offloading 22 pallets of Liquare.The door got tore up pretty bad and still not being my falt they sent me for a drug test.Well the worst that could happen happened I am going threw the union stages of the discharge it looks like it might work out good but even if the board says put him back to work they can take it to arbatration wich can drag out for six months.Being I have 3 children all under the age of 14 and a mom to go with it I have a lot going on right now .I think it would be a little selfish of me in her eyes and my kids to worry about my truck right now so the testing will be put on hold for a while time uncirtain right now.Hell I might loose the dam thing over this it will go before my house! What a waste.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/07/2006
20:55:25
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally ?
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Dude that sucks. Stuipid office politics too!
Kowalksi, looking in Toyota website, it does say 32 valve. And VVT now. I don't remember them being like that when my uncle bought his.
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