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BlackKotalac
GenIII
 
10/12/2006
17:00:41
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 Subject: AirIntake with TB Spacer
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Message:
I got a 2004 dodge dakota 4.7L:
I was wondering if anyone has used the poweraid throttle body spacer with a volant air intake cause i read on the airaid website it said may not be applicatable with other intakes that are not airaid. but the volant intakes are tight and alot better but if i can do the spacer and volant intake that would be an aweseome gain. any suggestions. i am asking this cause i dont have the time or money to try out different intakes and lose money finding out they dont fit.
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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10/12/2006
22:35:23
|  RE: AirIntake with TB Spacer
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Both are a waste of money especially the tb spacer. Invest in something that actually makes power like cams.
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Kowalski
GenIII
10/13/2006
10:12:55
| RE: AirIntake with TB Spacer
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Message:
Good advice - I've never heard of anyone making a measurable power gain with a TB spacer on these motors, and the intakes only seem to show a gain at higher revs - not sure why you're expecting an awesome gain from this. There's no good reason why it would only make a gain with their brand, and freer breathing mods typically work best with better flowing exhaust (don't forget the Y-pipe) as well. You might look at that combination instead - or the cam swap is an excellent suggestion for a 4.7; as would be something (chip or custom flash) to give you more ignition advance.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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BlackKotalac
GenIII
10/13/2006
10:33:14
| RE: AirIntake with TB Spacer
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yeah that makes since. i was thinking a y or x pipe, i was gonna get some headers, and a jet chip, how hard is it to replace the cams? i think i am gonna get a volant intake still cause i got this damn p.o.s. thing from autozone and i didnt put it on it was there when i got my truck.
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2006
13:13:16
| RE: AirIntake with TB Spacer
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Headers show little or no gain on the 4.7's. Replacing overhead cams is about as easy as installing headers.
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Marv
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2006
15:00:48
| RE: AirIntake with TB Spacer
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Read this page
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
10/14/2006
01:05:23
| RE: AirIntake with TB Spacer
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I wonder why some people are so against HEADERS on the 4.7?
I am willing to bet that a set of HEADERS with longer primary tubes would make a noticable difference. The 4.7 manifolds may not be as bad as some of the OLDER stock manifolds, but GOOD headers have got to be much better.
I'm waiting to find a good set of FULL LENGTH headers. Shorty's don't even compare.
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Buster
Dodge Dakota
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10/14/2006
02:33:44
| RE: AirIntake with TB Spacer
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I was looking under the hood of a 4.7 Grand Cherokee, and noticed the driver's side exhaust manifold was the "log" style, probably to clear the steering stuff, but the passenger side was the "ram's horn" style. And the exhaust note sounded good.
I've been looking, but haven't been able to find anything in the way of long tube headers for the 4.7. I guess they're too expensive to engineer with the clearance issues and all, and having to relocate the cats and O2 sensors on some models.
Hell, I even tried to find the rams-horn style from a Jeep to try a fit test, but couldn't find anyone getting rid of one.
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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10/14/2006
06:44:44
| RE: AirIntake with TB Spacer
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GraphiteDak, I'm not totally against headers, but like you pointed out they don't currently make a suitable header that is worth buying. Even if they did make long tube headers you would have a lot of issues dealing with cats and emmissions. With enough mods you may see some gains from shorties especially on the high end but as a stand alone mod I think you will agree that it is not going to give you much bang for the buck.
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Newbie4.7
Dodge Dakota
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10/14/2006
08:11:04
| RE: AirIntake with TB Spacer
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Message:
I'm totally with "GraphiteDak"
Headers on my `05 Dakota Really woke that 4.7l up.
For those that say theres not much Improvement over stock manifolds are crazy.
Heres a link to my pictures on Cardomain.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/813977/3
Check the difference out for "Yourself" I say.
But anyway,... GraphiteDak I'm on your side when it comes to headers on a 4.7l.
J.
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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10/14/2006
14:28:50
| RE: AirIntake with TB Spacer
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Ok guys listen no disrespect intended I installed some gibbson headers on my 4.7 2003 and they did wake up the Motor I understand I installed a superchip AIR INTAKE kn,and a gibson 3 inch axuast but i had the air intake and SC INSTALEED FIRST NOTICED A GOOD LITTLE GAIN WITHOUT HEADERS.Installed the headers and it was even better so the haeders did bump it up.Took Kolwaski,s advice changed whole Y pipe from headers back to 3inch exhaust.And yes that made another gain so the way i see it It all works TOGETHER Now i will take his advice and Install A comp cam.
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Newbie4.7
Dodge Dakota
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10/14/2006
19:32:24
| RE: AirIntake with TB Spacer
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Yes I hear the JBA Y-Pipe is an Awesome Upgrade for those who can use the upgrade. I myself is going to cut my Y-Pipe apart right after both Cats then run 2" - 2.5" Pipe and go True Duals.
Everything I've read says go with an H-Pipe but for some reason most go with the X-Pipe. I think thats because the X-Pipe is buyable and the H is mostly made I believe.
J
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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10/15/2006
09:53:00
| RE: AirIntake with TB Spacer
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Newbie4.7, you should read what GraphiteDak actually said. He fully supported long tube headers to get a noticable increase in hp and so do I. What BlackKotalac was talking about is a stand alone mod or in connection with a tb spacer and an aftermarket cold air intake. So, are you really supporting what GraphiteDak said? I asked GraphiteDak to clarify his position so I could be wrong.
If you plan on getting rid of the cats and installing a true dual system then long tube headers would be more cost effective than shorties.
I believe there have been several people that have actually dynoed shorty headers and showed little or no gains but those that were very happy with shorties only have their butts to support their claims.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
10/15/2006
15:50:12
| RE: AirIntake with TB Spacer
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Message:
I've personally NEVER had SHORTY headers before.
The closest was the ones on my bro in law's 318 which seemed to halp a little, but again he could never tell because all together he had headers, new cam, valve springs, and STILL a factory PCM that hit the stupid 5,200 (approx) rev limiter just when power would be still going strong.
Looking at the 4.7 manifolds, it don't LOOK restrictive, but it is 4 ports going into one "log" style pipe. NO scavanging effect (like a pump) at all. Shorties look like they help with flow a little. But I believe it's the longer tube headers that really give you the "scavanging" effect.
Again. I would never think og doing long tubes on the stock single exhaust or taht crazy Y-PIPE! LOL! I forget many people ask about parts that just "bolt on" leaving everything alone.
I've already got my stock exhaust system completely ripped off. the only crappy part is my stock manifolds with the 2" or so exits that immediately dump into my 2 1/2" dual pipes, cats, etc.
If I do anything more to my Dakota, short of a Turbo, it will be some Long Tube Headers, (if I can make some) and a home brew intake MANIFOLD. Not intake tube, intake MANIFOLD. Those two things would unleash some power on the upper RPM's.
Wanna see an EXPENSIVE header?????
Yesterday at the bro in law's, working on his OTHER bro in law's car.
He just got a new turbo/header manifold made from Stainless. That header and the 3" down pipe and section of exhaust pipe to bolt back into his car was $1100 +
That's alot of coin!!!
This car is a PITA. He has had numberous things rewired, different controllers added, removed and it is a wiring NIGHTMARE!!!!
He has a fast car, but needs help when something breaks. We be scratching out heads looking at some of this wiring RATS NEST done by different people and tuning shops. The AEM stand alone is not even bolted in. It just lays in the passenger kick panel on the floor!
But it did make over 400HP on this 2.0 liter RWD 4 banger BEFORE the new exhaust.
I haven't heard back from what the gains were when they went to the dyno yesterday afternoon.
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Newbie4.7
Dodge Dakota
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10/16/2006
08:53:12
| RE: AirIntake with TB Spacer
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Long Tube Headers vs. Short Tube Headers.
Long Tube Headers for the 4.7 Dakotas are Not To Be Found. And even if they could be found they would or could only be used for Off Road Purposes.
My Friend use to own a Mustang a few years ago and I remember all those Nights and Days that he would call me and ask me to visit all these different Mustang Forum Threads. Over and Over I've read about Headers on a Mustang, Long vs. Short over and over. Yes I believe Long tubes are better than Short but are usually ment to be used without cats, Can they be used with Cats? Sure, but if I had long tubes I probably wouldnt.
I'm using the Mustang as the example only because I don't ever remember reading a thread about Long Tubes for a Dakota unless special made for it and if you ever visit a Mustang forum you'll find all sorts of topics about this because there are long tubes for the Mustang.
Are Short Tube Headers Better than the Stock Manifolds on a 4.7l Dakota? They've got to be. That Stock Manifold has 4 Cylinders blowing thru 1 very small tube wheres with Headers each Cylinders has it's own exit and then combined into 1 very much larger tube.
The new Dakota's have their Cats inline with the Y-Pipe Un-Like the older models Dakota's where the Y-Pipe and the Cats were separated from each other.
I have a Newer Dakota so I'm kinda stuck with the Short Tubes unless i want to go all out and spend lots and lots of money that i dont have,... anyway that where I said cutting the Y-Pipe right after the Cats and going True Duals. Have you seen that SMASHED Y-Pipe on the Dakota?
Thats got to be lots of restriction, it's got to be,... So thats why i want to totally get rid of mine and just run my pipes from Header to Cat to H-Pipe then to Muffler then Dumped on each side.
"GraphiteDak" That is One Crazy looking set of headers there.
Newbie4.7
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/16/2006
13:15:02
| RE: AirIntake with TB Spacer
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"Are Short Tube Headers Better than the Stock Manifolds on a 4.7l Dakota? They've got to be. That Stock Manifold has 4 Cylinders blowing thru 1 very small tube wheres with Headers each Cylinders has it's own exit and then combined into 1 very much larger tube.
There something I've never heard before and didn't know.
How small is this "very small tube?" How large is "larger tube" that they all join into?
I'm apparently under the erroneous impression that each exhaust port entered into a single individual port in the manifold. I was also under the impression that the 4.7 exhaust ports were a very good match to the exhast manifold, at least compared to the 5.2/5.9. Now I find that the exit diameter on the exhaust manifold is much smaller than the exit diameter on headers.
I wonder how well that works when you try to connect that much larger diameter to the stock exhaust system.
I guess you learn something new everyday.
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Kowalski
GenIII
10/16/2006
17:18:42
| RE: AirIntake with TB Spacer
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Newbie4.7 - you're right when you say the short tube headers have got to be better than the stock manifolds for the 4.7. I've seen several times where they are reputed to have a 2% advantage. With a number that precise, I imagine someone figured that out on a flow bench. Just not enough gain to justify the price for me. When someone actually dynos a decent gain by changing these without also changing the restrictive y-pipe, that's when people will accept these 4.7 shortie headers as a decent mod - but I haven't seen that in about 5 years on this site yet.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/16/2006
19:22:34
| RE: AirIntake with TB Spacer
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I balieve Gibson dynod them on a dokata they said they did anyway they claim 10 to 15% More pony But thin I guess they would LoL.I think I saw a copy of the dino sheet there I balieve.Not saying your wrong I to would like to hear from someone who did dino wish i woulda.
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