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GraphiteDak
GenIII
 
8/28/2005
20:54:24
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 Subject: Running SuperChips in TOW mode
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Message:
Well. Someone was asking how this would work, and I said I'd get back to them after trying to tow this weekend.
I can not find that thread.
But anyway. For the last week or two I've been running the 87 performance setting rather than the 91 performace setting. At the race track i only lost 1/10th dropping to 87 octane fuel and using that program.
Yesterday I filled up with gas before I went to go tow a car. I brought the programmer with me. Luckily. Anyway. I started filling up on 87 octane and THEN got the prgrammer out. Installed the TOWING setting and noted it said "MUST use 91 octane".
Sh*t. I just filled up with 87. I let it write the program just to see. As soon as i left the gas station (with nothing but an EMPTY trailer), it pinged like a biatch! The worst I've ever heard it ping!
I drove one mile and pulled over and threw the 87 performance setting back in. It wasn't like I could switch my fuel to 91 after I just filled up!
So I dodn't get to try the TOWING setting other than knowing it advances the sh*t out of the timing!
Some info I can share is that in the 87 performance mode I towed about 3000 Lbs easy with no pinging in the grades and had plenty of power. Some of them grade from Payson to Phoenix are pretty damn steep!
Here's what I towed...
My future drag car. 1974 Plymouth Duster.
It's stripped right now. And that's good. I can clean it up while the drive train and wiring is out of the way.
With the cruise control on it held in OD just fine. I had to set the cruise for 45 to 50 MPH due to the under rated trailer axle/wheels and NO SPARE tire.
Pulled the hills at 50 or so without full throttle almost every time. Temp got to 2/3 on the big ones without my flex fan on. Brought it with me, but didn't need it.
Anyway. Superchips 87 octane performance setting seemed to be ok when towing. Maybe more safe than the TOWING setting.
I will be towing again this next weekend to take the ATV's to the Cinders near Flagstaff. Again. More monster grades to climb. If I run my gas out by then I'll do the 91 octane and the towing setting. But seeing that I don't drive my truck to work, I will probably not use that fuel up.
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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8/28/2005
22:09:07
| RE: Running SuperChips in TOW mode
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Did it run ok on the Performance program but not on the towing program?
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OnlineAutoram
Dodge Dakota
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8/28/2005
22:26:48
| RE: Running SuperChips in TOW mode
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Good Info.
I was wondering the same thing.
This is good to know.
I think i read it as the 89Oct Performance Setting vs. Towing Setting.
I wonder if the Towing setting is any better then the 91Oct Performance setting as far as performance. I dont have a SC because there isnt one out for my year truck and i know my truck response differently (better)in Tow mode.
When you go to the track which gas do you use in your truck? If it's the 91 Oct try the towing and 91 performance modes next time at the track to see if any difference for us please.
Jim.
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OnlineAutoram
Dodge Dakota
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8/28/2005
22:28:57
| RE: Running SuperChips in TOW mode
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P.S.S.
Looks like it'll be a fun project.
Have Lots of Fun and Keep us Updated.
Jim.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
8/29/2005
21:45:42
| RE: Running SuperChips in TOW mode
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Message:
N56629, I couldn't run the TOWING setting more than a mile it was pinging when I touched the gas from a stop.
I had a tankful of 87 so i changed to 87 performance (rather than STOCK) and it was fine.
Next time I run it at the track, I'll have to try the 91 octane on TOWING setting.
I'd have to question why in the name of gawd, they'd advance the timing so much for TOWING???
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modain
GenIII
8/30/2005
12:31:53
|  RE: Running SuperChips in TOW mode
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Message:
Increased timing advance yields increased power, perhaps?
Not to be a smarty-pants, but to gain more power without doing any mechanincal mods the programmer has to make more power by changing the spark and fuel settings. Right?
Maybe the SC folks tuned it on the agressive side to provide enough value to buy it. When I run my trucks on the 87 program I notice that the engine power seems a little perkier. But, not much more.
The biggest thing I notice is my Durango's shift characteristics are much different than stock. It drops out of TQ converter lock sooner when I goose the throttle a little. It holds a gear longer when I am accellerating agressively. It shifts at 5.5K when I'm at WOT. The engine seems a little stronger, but that could be my perception because of the tranny's new behavior.
If I want to feel a real difference in engine power I have put in 91 octane and either one of the 91 programs. I guess there's not much that can be gained with only 87 octane.
If anybody has dyno charts for this engine with all four of the available settings that would be cool. I'd like to see them so I can see just what gains are measured. So far I've only bee able to find stock vs. 91 performance. It seems nobody is interested in dynoing the 87 and the 91 towing program.
=========================================
2002 Graphite QC SLT Plus, 4.7L, NV3500, Superchips 3715, 3.92 LSD, loads o'fun...
2001 Patriot Blue Durango SLT, 4.7L, 45RFE, Superchips 3715, 3.55 Open (for now)
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
8/30/2005
13:13:55
| RE: Running SuperChips in TOW mode
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You could dyno yours and let us know how it went.
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modain
GenIII
8/30/2005
14:20:49
|  RE: Running SuperChips in TOW mode
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Message:
I could. I was just trying to avoid dupicating something that's undoubtably been done already. To this point I have not had a need to dyno my trucks, as they are both bone stock with the exception of the SC programmer. Maybe Superchips has that info?
=========================================
2002 Graphite QC SLT Plus, 4.7L, NV3500, Superchips 3715, 3.92 LSD, loads o'fun...
2001 Patriot Blue Durango SLT, 4.7L, 45RFE, Superchips 3715, 3.55 Open (for now)
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2005
15:32:02
| RE: Running SuperChips in TOW mode
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There is no better time to dyno your vehicle than when it is bone stock and you are thinking of adding some mods. I only regret not following my own advice.
I'm always leary about claims made by any manufacturer so it never dawned on me to ask SC.
Btw, I think you are the first person to notice the change in the shift pattern, especially the TC lockup. So far everyone I've asked said they noticed no change.
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Pittdawg
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2005
21:44:28
| RE: Running SuperChips in TOW mode
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Message:
the 87 program just turns of the torque management, the 91 program advances the timing as well, the towing program also advances timing just not as much as the performance program
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
8/31/2005
01:15:35
| RE: Running SuperChips in TOW mode
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The shifting is DEFINITELY better with either performance mode. Worth it just for that. Mine already shifted at 5500 stock, so that's not what I notice different. It's the tire jerking shifting that it gives and maybe more responsive to down shift. I've stomped it at 30 or so and it has shifted itself into 1st.
It DOES seem to have more low end grunt with either setting. Maybe with the cams, TB, etc I noticed more? Plus my 2003 stock intake manifold is different than the 2000 and 2002 you have modain. But I sure can rip the tires from a dead stop now with the programmer. And liek I said, just 1/10 diff in the 1/4 dropping the 91 setting to the 87 setting.
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minorthreats
Dodge Dakota
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8/31/2005
01:44:50
| RE: Running SuperChips in TOW mode
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GraphiteDak, overall do you think the superchip is worth the money? and what type of mpg increase did you notice, if any?
thanks
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
9/01/2005
01:30:18
| RE: Running SuperChips in TOW mode
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Haven't exactly driven it like a miser since the SuperChips tuner to know MPG :p
I think it's worth it for sure. People pay close to this for a intake tube, filkter, etc that does next to nothing according to the butt dyno.
Just the removal of the torque management on heavy throttle and the rev limiter/speed limiter increase is pretty cool. It actually restored some of the low end grunt having the cams, TB ported, etc.
Friday night I'll be towing to Flagstaff. With other people driving up there as well. I may get a chance to drive more normal (and slower than 80MPH when towing) and see what the MPG come out to.
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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9/01/2005
18:58:46
| RE: Running SuperChips in TOW mode
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Kind of off the subject, But,,,
Ain't that the Duster off those Dodge Ram Hemi commercials....
LOL
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modain
GenIII
9/01/2005
19:26:55
|  RE: Running SuperChips in TOW mode
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Message:
I'll answer the MPG query from my experience.
With the 87 program on my Durango I get a 1MPG increase as long as I drive it without a heavy foot. Because my tire size is larger than the stock tire size programmed into the PCM I had to adjust the miles driven by an appropriate adjustment factor (29.00" / 27.75") to arrive at the real miles driven. With the SC installed the PCM us running with the correct tire height.
In running with either one of the 91 programs on my Dakota it appears that the mileage is either the same or a little decreased. Not much, but it is not my usual 17.5ishMPG. On 87 the truck runs about the same as without the SC.
Bottom line: the gas doesn't go much faster, nor much slower just because of the SC. It all depends on your right foot.
=========================================
2002 Graphite QC SLT Plus, 4.7L, NV3500, Superchips 3715, 3.92 LSD, loads o'fun...
2001 Patriot Blue Durango SLT, 4.7L, 45RFE, Superchips 3715, 3.55 Open (for now)
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
9/02/2005
01:16:47
| RE: Running SuperChips in TOW mode
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Message:
I agree totally. It's the right foot!
Always expect to use a little more gas when you first get a new mod!
DSW said "Ain't that the Duster off those Dodge Ram Hemi commercials.... "
Now that you mention it. It does kine of remind me of that. Except this one was towed by a Dakota :)
Except a Duster never came with a Hemi unless someone drops one in.
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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9/02/2005
06:19:18
| RE: Running SuperChips in TOW mode
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Message:
How can you guys talk timing changes without including altitude > for every 1000 feet altitude you can you can increase timing one degree more then sea leval max with no pinging and gain performance and mileage > Detroit put altitude timing in there ignitions years ago > reguardless, you can increase your sea leval factory settings with chips but do these chips allow for altitude > i'm thinking the chip takes over the altitude control from your computer > I'm no expert on chips at all but I have yet to see anything said about altitude > without altitide included your questions and answers have no true value as I see it > but you guys may know something I don't
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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9/02/2005
20:13:57
| RE: Running SuperChips in TOW mode
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OBIO3, Where did you find that you can increase timing 1 degree for every 1000' of altitude? Never heard of that before. When I take my boat to lakes at 6000-9000' it runs sluggish even though I've leaned the carb down. Hmmmm something to play with next time I'm in the high country.
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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9/03/2005
00:48:11
| RE: Running SuperChips in TOW mode
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DSW >> ! extra degree per 1000 feet elivation has always been The rule with leaner jetting at 5000 feet or just before this point depending on engine > I can not recall when detroit started building the automatic timine advance into the autos but it was done when carbs were still top gun > Prior to that I myself use this rule on thumb for years > It really improved performance but NOT to the extent it matched normal timing at sea leval > Thinner air kills total recall of performance > Only problem I would run in to was taking a trip towards the coast > I live over 5000 feet > At about 2500 feet on heavey accileration I got ping or knock > 2 choices at this point > run premium fuel or retard the distributer > My point was how is this being compensated for with the chips > Your turn > thank you
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Idano
Dodge Dakota
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9/03/2005
01:52:53
| RE: Running SuperChips in TOW mode
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OBIO3,
I believe the PCM uses the MAP sensor inputs to change the timing advance relative to the barometric pressure. The MAP sensor measures the Absolute Manifold Pressure in relation to the Atmospheric Pressure. The PCM uses these values in conjunction with the IAT readings to determine the density of the air charge.
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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9/03/2005
02:10:17
| RE: Running SuperChips in TOW mode
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Thanks for the info,,, should come in helpful tuning my 73 Mercruiser when at high alitude.
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