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440pref
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2005
20:03:01
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 Subject: how to performance a 440?
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I have a stock 1978 440 from a newyorker with a 727. It has about 220 hp stock but also 79,000 miles. Does anyone know how i can squeeze everybit of power out of it for less than $800-$1000. It runs now and doesnt need rebuilt.
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look
Dodge Dakota
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2/02/2005
06:07:34
| RE: how to performance a 440?
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msd ignition, 750 performance carb, edelbrock air gap intake manifold. you could find a set of decent 906 casting cylinder heads at a swap meet too to crank out some power
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vern
Dodge Dakota
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2/02/2005
07:46:57
| RE: how to performance a 440?
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have the heads ported and polished,this will help with flow on both int.and exsh.sides[just having the pockets around the valves opened up will net you 25hp alone]without all the porting,for a lot less money
$100 pockets,$500-600 port/polish
have the heads milled,this will help up the comp.some,20-25 thousands,this will help if you go with a bigger cam $100-150
cam/lifters and valve springs,just don,t good nuts on this if your streeting it and make sure the cam and intake work together[same power range]$200-300
good aftermarket intake and carb,[big blocks have a air gap intake,stock]elderbrock makes a cam/intake combo that makes good power,but theres others too.[the stock 4bbl carb should be fine]intake $200
good set of headers $200
this should put you in the 350-400hp range
just remember the 60s motors made more hp basicly from more compression and their cams
good luck
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
2/02/2005
08:03:27
| RE: how to performance a 440?
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your motor is rated at 8.2:1 but is more likely 7.6-8.0:1 range. I know this because i've cc'd stock open chamber heads.
906 heads are great... but the heads you have on the motor now flow the same, and have hardened exhaust seats. You'll only benefit with the 906's in the .500-.550 lift range... and there is no reason to have a cam with that much lift with that low of compression.
also, because of the compression, do not bother wasting money on porting or polishing.
you can gain some good compression back by milling the heads but maxed out is .086/.072 and that will take you to about (depending on actual cc) 9:1 with a .035 head gasket... but that's a lot of milling for a daily driver.
since you have $1000 to work with and i bet this is gonna be a street beater, it would be best to work on the torque of the motor and not bother with making a 7.6:1 compression motor that has a intake manifold to run 6500 rpms. Your motor will level off on power at around 4000 rpms.
* edelbrock dual plane manifold
* cam with 110 lope seperation and around 224 degrees duration @.050 lift around 450-470. I like comps xtreme energy myself.
* 750 carb of choice, keep it vacuum secondary
* adjustable rockers
* aftermarket pushrods
all that will be around $1000 if you shop around good enough.
and that will probably get your around 250 rwhp but probably more than 350 rwtq.
i am guessing this is gonna be in a dakota, so headers are hard to come by...
if you wanna spend more money, there will be a lot more ways to get more power out of it.
with stock exhaust manifolds and 7.6:1 compression, my 400 bb made 225 rwhp and 335 rwtq. The horsepower peaked at 3750 rpms and held flat until 5500 rpms when the guy let off the dyno. That just shows that there wasnt enough compression at the higher rpms to build more power... even though my cam and intake range is for 1300-5600 rpms.
have fun with it... if ya have more questions, just ask!!
now my 400 has that 9:1 compression, competition valve job, headers, and some other new dodads... it should be screaming a lot better now.
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440electrtic?
Dodge Dakota
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2/02/2005
21:09:11
| RE: how to performance a 440?
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thanks, ya its gonna go in a dakota.
p.sp is an edlebrok torker 2 a good intake, b/c i cn get one for $100
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Johnny5
Dodge Dakota
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2/02/2005
22:15:54
|  RE: how to performance a 440?
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I'd keep the intake duration below 220° with stock compression ratio, and STAY AWAY from the Torker intake!!!! Very soft bottom end. Stick with an aftermarket dual plane.
I agree with IntenseDak on the heads. They're probably better than the old 906's when big valves are installed. I like the 750 carb but I'd go with an Edelbrock/Carter for better streetability.
I'm still kicking the big block around the garage, wondering if I should sell it or throw it in the quad cab (lots of fabbing and $$$ on FAST EFI). I'm almost past the point of no return on the buildup. Power should be around 500 even with Edelbrock heads and a 268X cam, and torque will be 575+...
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furball69
Dodge Dakota
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2/03/2005
02:53:30
| RE: how to performance a 440?
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I might still have an old Mopar magazine with an article about building a 10 second 440 for $1000.00, I'll see if I can find it tomorrow after work. The mag is probably 15 years old so prices will be a bit different.
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Johnny5
Dodge Dakota
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2/03/2005
11:17:01
|  RE: how to performance a 440?
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10 seconds is about as long as it would hold together for that much money. A good cam, lifters and timing set alone is over 200 bucks nowadays. It also depends on what you put it in. I think they stuffed it into a Dart if I remember correctly, and it "only" got into the 12 second range. That was pretty good for the amount of money they spent back then. Here's the power of today - not cheap, but much more reliable and less "cammy" than a few years back:
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0111_mopar/index.html
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furball69
Dodge Dakota
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2/03/2005
23:32:57
| RE: how to performance a 440?
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Yeah, I found the article and I was mistaken about the cost; there is no cost estimate, just a list of parts and machine work. But yeah, the engine does produce high 10's in a 3500# car.
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ben davis
Dodge Dakota
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8/11/2005
22:47:00
| RE: how to performance a 440?
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i just bought remanufatured 440 engine 1978 block with a 1966-1972 steel crank .443 465 lift cam elderbroke dual plane manifold.stock 906 heads with harden valve seats ,msd distributor,ignition,headers this going a 1969 road runner 4 speed what kind of horse power will i make ?
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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8/11/2005
23:35:36
| RE: how to performance a 440?
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On the HP front, don't go nuts. Look at the early 70's Olds 455 Rocket. It was only rated at something like 230HP, but made 500+ ft/lbs torque. I'd pop for the Mopar Performance ignition kit...$200, and it's everything you need in one box. Even the OEM 4V intake will work well with a mild cam, and it can be had for dirt cheap. Carb. Why not grab a $35 Thermoquad on eBay, get a $35 rebuild kit, and go to it. That's how to really low-buck it. Most often, the compression ratio was reduced with dished pistons. If a good set of higher CR pistons can't be found (and I've seen outrageous deals on eBay), mill the heads and intake. Shoot for a CR in the high 8's. This will allow a healthy ignition advance curve while running on regular gas. Don't sweat every last little bit of CR. The XE268 works well with the stock torque converter.
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sam sneed
Dodge Dakota
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8/12/2005
11:08:19
| RE: how to performance a 440?
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these guys are right i have been into bigblock mopars since i could walk the secret with any rb motor is high compression big cam and good heads or alot to head work IntenseDak39 was right about the 906 heads there good heads but there really not that much difrent from what you have you need to look at some swap meets for some old ratty 915 heads spend a little money have them worked and they will make that thing come alive i have a 68 charger with a 67 model steel crank 440 .30 over with mopar performance purple shaft cam and stage 5 heads wiend tunnel ram and a holley dominator i had 915 heads on it when my brother in law give it to me it would run like a scalded ape then i got the heads i have now and had them workd and buddie let me tell you with that built 727 with reverse pattern ratchet shifter and a 5.13:1 richomd gear on a strange spool in an 8 3/4 with slicks im running 8s in the quater no bottle
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
8/12/2005
15:47:37
| RE: how to performance a 440?
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if you got stock compression, stay away from the 915 heads.
stock compression is really low due to a big combustion chamber and very low compression height (CH) on a flat top piston. Stock CH on a 1972-1978 440 and 400 is in the .090-.110 range. Combine that with the closed chamber of the 915, and you're just asking for detonation that no camshaft can prevent. with the huge quench pad of the 915, you should really get the piston at 0 deck and have a piston with valve reliefs.
Ben, i'd expect in the 275-315 rwhp range with that setup if properly tuned. That motor would really love a little bit more lift and duration... you just got a mild torquer cam in that 440.
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Johnny5
Dodge Dakota
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8/12/2005
23:01:51
|  RE: how to performance a 440?
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The old formula used to be $10/hp to build ANY engine. Times have really changed. My 438 is built for pump gas and will make well over 500hp with the cam and intake I have now, but it cost me 7K to build. Problem is, I don't have anything to put it in and I can't even seem to sell it at a loss... long story made short, you're gonna have to change the pistons to make any kind of power, and a thousand bucks won't go very far. 1hp/cid is max for any stock home-ported, iron-headed 440 if you want it to idle below 900 rpm. $2500-$3500 will get you there depending on how much is new and how much is used.
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jjj
Dodge Dakota
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8/13/2005
10:13:15
| RE: how to performance a 440?
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IntenseDak is right on with his advice.
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
8/13/2005
11:00:31
| RE: how to performance a 440?
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Johnny,
is that the 438 i keep seeing on eBay and bigblockdarts.com?
very good looking motor with some great parts!! If i had the money to invest, i'd go for it but my motor is where i want it to be at.
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Johnny5
Dodge Dakota
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8/13/2005
18:28:34
|  RE: how to performance a 440?
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Yup, same 438 on ebay, land of cheap-a$$ wannabees and morons with wallets bigger than their brains. If I don't end up selling it I'm probably gonna be forced to cam it down to a Crower compu-grind and put it in the truck. I'm gonna need a wrecked 2000 5.9L truck with the older tranny, wiring harness, etc. as a donor to do it properly. More time, more money and lots more work. KRC wasn't much help so I figured out how to do it on my own.
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
8/14/2005
08:49:41
| RE: how to performance a 440?
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that tranny wont work for ya unless you buy an adapter plate.
go get a little A-body and that motor would make it scream!
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Johnny5
Dodge Dakota
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8/14/2005
18:05:27
| RE: how to performance a 440?
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Got the adapter plate covered. I was looking for a Dart, but after reality set in I realized I don't have anywhere to work on it and it'll be at least 4 years until I can get anywhere near it. That leaves me with 2 options: sell it or put it in the truck. It's paid for so I don't really need to sell it. I've got nothing but time to figure out what to do with it.
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Johnny5
Dodge Dakota
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8/25/2005
16:49:32
|  RE: how to performance a 440?
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Greg, I never did ask, but what do you have in your 400? My 438's up for sale again on evilbay. If you know someone interested, shoot me an email at javram01@earthlink.net - I'm sure I can work something out. Gotta go, hurricane's comin'...
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
8/25/2005
18:21:45
| RE: how to performance a 440?
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my 400 is pretty mild right now
shaved heads
new guides
new valves (stock size)
comp cams vavle springs
comp cams pushrods
comp cams retainers
comp cams xe262h cam
summit double roller timing chain
cat 1.5 roller rockers
so it's pretty much a rebuild with a little bit better cam.
i'll let you know if i hear of anything.
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