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Chris
Dodge Dakota
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11/09/2004
17:44:26
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 Subject: throttle body spacer vs. tornado??
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dont both the t.b. spacer and the tornado do the same thing?? does anyone have both??? does both of them together work better than one or the other?? which one individualy works better?? i got a 5.2 if that matters.
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Kowalski
GenIII
11/09/2004
18:02:07
|  RE: throttle body spacer vs. tornado??
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If you think about the tornado, there's no way it can increase incoming air pressure. The force of the incoming air drives the blades, not the other way around. This would, if anything, decrease the velocity of the incoming air.
Most seem to say spacers may help 4.7, but not 5.2 or 5.9. I've never seen anyone claim to have dynoed a gain even on a 4.7 though.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Greg
Dodge Dakota
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11/09/2004
18:39:10
|  RE: throttle body spacer vs. tornado??
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Well I currently am using the tonado in my cold air intake and I can honestly say that when I installed it I could tell an increase in the 3000 + rpm range right away... I also tried the tb spacer, but one for the V8's "My truck is a V6 3.9 magnum" and it also helped, esspecially with the tornado insert, because I tried it with and without the tornado, but mainly in the torque area in the lower rpm range... I could then go up mountains that I never before thought about going up in fifth gear... BUT since then I have modified my engine quite a bit and have had to do away with the tb spacer simply because it was for a V8 "approximately two 50mm bores I guess" and my current tb has two 52mm bores and the spacer of course will not work with it, so it's just sitting in the shed with the rest of the old parts off of the motor...
I also know a guy who has a 318 in his jacked up dakota and put on a tb spacer and has seen, what he refers to, as great improvements...
Of course I also would not recommend buying big name brand through parts stores simply because you can get it so much cheaper off of ebay...
Now I'm also not saying that this will work on all vehicles because it has been proven to not work on quite a few and work really good on some... All I know is it is designed to swirl air around allowing it to flow around bends a whole lot better than it did before allowing air to move more freely into the cylinders...
The only real way that I can tell you if it will work for you or not is for you to go out and try it out, because that's the only real way to find out now is it not???
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?????????
Dodge Dakota
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11/09/2004
18:49:39
| RE: throttle body spacer vs. tornado??
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I think we have some prime candidates for an electric supercharger
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hybrid
Dodge Dakota
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11/09/2004
20:31:24
| RE: throttle body spacer vs. tornado??
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FYI, swirling the incoming air does nothing for performance. once it hits the butterfly in the t/b it's not swirling (if it even was in the first place). Then take into account the intake runners, and the valves...Even if it was swirling hows that going to improve performance? Create a more complete combustion? turbulance does a better job then swirling the air....
The electric supercharger rocks, only 52 amps or current draw, and can create up to 1psi of boost, with no additional fuel. Sorry you pay for what you get.....$4k into my turbo kit, and it's doubled my hp..(dyno proven)....I'm not flaming you, just sick of these topics.
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Tony
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2004
03:23:14
|  RE: throttle body spacer vs. tornado??
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"There's a sucker born every minute ..."
-P.T. Barnum
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WHAT?
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2004
06:58:15
| RE: throttle body spacer vs. tornado??
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Ya'll gotta be joking right?! They're both JUNK! Don't be suckered in to that!
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Science Guy
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2004
09:40:53
| RE: throttle body spacer vs. tornado??
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theyre both snake oil. listen to what the Science Guy and the others are trying to tell you.
Greg, if you say you felt a difference at the 3000 rpm range, its call "the placebo effect".
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2004
12:43:19
| RE: throttle body spacer vs. tornado??
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This is like trying to decide between setting a wad of cash on fire or dropping it into a shredder. All hail P.T. Barnum.
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2004
19:09:56
| RE: throttle body spacer vs. tornado??
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Dude,
Have you tried the low friction bearing kit. Gives you incredible hp & mileage. It's only $99. Saw it on one of the AS Seen on TV deals.
I have one, it really works. Now i stock them. I'll sell you a kit today for only $49.95 + shipping and handling.
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2004
19:11:16
| RE: throttle body spacer vs. tornado??
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Almost forgot, that low friction bearing kit is for your stock muffler.
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2004
20:12:30
| RE: throttle body spacer vs. tornado??
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"I'll sell you a kit today for only $49.95 + shipping and handling."
I ain't no fool. You are going to have to tell me how much the shipping and handling is going to be first. Believe it or not, some people get sucked into paying outrageous shipping and handling fees just because they didnt' ask.
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trent
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2004
20:13:05
| RE: throttle body spacer vs. tornado??
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a throtle body spacer will help hp.. and air flow.. the reason is that when ur throttle body or carb is on ur intake the butter flys at WOT extend into ur intake a little bit. the spacer alows the butter flys to be equal with the top of the intake causign better flow and less restriction..
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Greg
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2004
20:34:16
| RE: throttle body spacer vs. tornado??
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Well you try to state or explain any experiances on anything on this site and then the guys who want to ruin or jump in with their junk is always right behind you...
I plainly stated not to buy the big name brand type of stuff and also not all experiance or have any benefits from it... All I know is it did indeed work for me because the truck pulled a fairly steep grade in fifth gear that it would have never before pulled and as far as that goes it would never even start up the mountain without loosing large amounts of speed right off of the bat, which didn't happen with the tb spacer and the tornado... With the tornado and the spacer it would pull all the way over the mountain, lugging from half way up and on to the top of course, but it still pulled it... I also had other people who had ridden in it before, and knew what it was capable of, ride in it after words and they too were amazed by how much difference it had made...
AND yes swirling air does improve torque and fuel combustion ability... That is why the technology is built into some engines pistons, heads, and combustion chambers such as the Perkin's Diesel Fastrams "since 1990" and the Vortech GM and Chevy engines... It is proven to add quite a bit of torque as long as it swirls the air/fuel mix in the combustion chambers... Also swirling air makes it able to flow around bends and over obstructions much easier, a lot like what the cross hatching in the high performance engine's intake manifolds does...
Also this technology has started to be designed into cold air intakes now for the same reasons...
I also stated that another guy had good experiances with just the spacer on his jacked up dakota... So don't come on here and start making your little stupid funny jokes and cluster up an interesting point with your junk...
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hybrid
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2004
20:52:57
| RE: throttle body spacer vs. tornado??
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I'm not trying to ruin your post, just pointing out a few things.
First of all, if you say that it made that much of a difference, it must have added a good 20whp (not likely)..you are NOT going to feel a gain of 3-4hp in a vehicle such as your dakota. I would very surprised if you gained 1hp let alone 3-4hp. If all your going by is your ass dyno, then prove me wrong with a before and after dyno sheet from a dynojet.
Do you actually think that the swirling air created by the tornado is going to be still swirling once it's gets past the t/b butterfly? and then through the intake runners? Honestly.
If that air is swirling at all, it's going to straiten rite out once it get through the t/b.
I'm sorry you wasted your $69.99 on a part that does nothing for you, and now you have to justify it for yourself.
Sure if your get the air to swirl it will help automization, but your NOT going to get that effect by placing an aluminum can with blades on it in your intake pipe.
Not being an ass, but off all the dyno sheets i've seen, they are not worth the $69.99 or even $1.99
If I recall correctly, most vehicles saw no change in the dyno numbers, and some even lost a tad up top (restricted airflow)....
I'll try to pull those charts up for.
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Greg
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2004
21:17:33
| RE: throttle body spacer vs. tornado??
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Actually I only spent $24.00 for the tornado and only around $15.00 for the spacer on ebay...
I have looked long and hard for a dyno around here, but the nearest one I could find was in Atlanta or Charlotte which are both a good 3 to 4 hr drive away... Have heard rumors of some closer, but never bothered to look into it, simply gave up...
I know it won't swirl after going through the tb butterflys, which is why it possibly worked the best with the spacer, but it will allow it to flow to the butterflys much easier...
Tell ya what, I haven't had it out of the intake since before the top end build of my motor and I'm planning on cleaning the air filter tomorrow, so I'll take it out and see if I notice any differences... I too have seen some dyno test on the product where it was added to cold air intakes where it gave an additional 5 to 10 hp, still not quite anywhere what they advertise, but it did work for some and like I said it won't neccessarilly work for all...
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Brucifer
GenIII
11/10/2004
21:20:05
| RE: throttle body spacer vs. tornado??
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I'm with hybrid on this.
How do you know when your air comes to a right hand turn in the intake, it isn't swirling left?
Like I've said before, I need to come out with swirl pattern intake valve. As the air/fuel pass by the valve, grooves in the valve head spin the air into the cylinder with the force of a tornado!
There is another thread somewhere here that had someone write the company about their tb spacer. The email back basicly said if you can't measure the performance, it's working.
Before and after dynos are going to be the best test of any mod.
'Love Us with Money, or We'll Hate you with Hammers!' M&C
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Science Guy
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2004
22:15:20
| RE: throttle body spacer vs. tornado??
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Greg, nobody is trying it ruin anything. the reason the tornado and spacer doesn't work on magnum motors is pure and simple physics. the beer barrel intake does not allow either one of those products to work as they're designed. they are primarily designed for single plane intake manifolds with carbs. they dont work on the beer barrel manifold because as said earlier, the runners are long and the fuel injector is located at the entrance of the intake port at the cylinder head. any swirl action generated by either product is reduced, if not eliminated completely by the time ith air/fuel mixture gets to the combustion chamber. now you're asking yourself why do they sell these products if they're not designed for our motors. first, as I said in an earlier post, if you think it's working as advertised, then it is. hence the placebo effect. secondly, there's a 30 day moneyback guarantee if youre not satisfied. all you had to do is do a search on this board, or any other dakota board to find the response from hundreds of other people who have used either product. this would have saved you $39. dont whine at us because were telling you like it is. do yourself a favor and research any product youre going to buy beforehand. whew, im tired and need a beer.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2004
22:54:10
| RE: throttle body spacer vs. tornado??
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Swirl works in the combustion chambers, not in the intake. Spacers help clear the butterflies? Really? Gee, now who here has 4-inch butterflies that'd require a 2-inch spacer? Hilarious!
The tornado demo plays right into the minds of those who know no better. Look how that water just flows so much faster with the tornado than without it. Yeah, well you're not dealing with water in an intake tract. Water is several times denser than air, and is non-compressible. Inducing swirl in an intake tract just turns into flow-reducing turbulence. The whole point of having a smooth flowing intake is to have a boundary-layer of air along the walls of the intake. The high-speed airflow travels within the ports, with the boundary layer as a cushion of sorts, thus, a smooth airflow. Spin that airflow, and you disrupt the boundary layer (and with carbs, it'll induce fuel dropout), anyway a disrupted boundary layer induces turbulence, and if severe, airflow stall. If engines ran on water flow, you'd be set, but air is fairly compliant, unlike water. It's a scam. Admit it, deal with it, and move on. Oh, can anyone name a single instance where anyone has actually set any sort of speed record while running these things? Legitimate records, not something they claim on the commercial. If it works so well, why haven't the Pro-Stock guys modified their hood scoops to induce that sort of flow? It's not against the rules. They haven't done it because they know it's crap. To be outlawed, it must be legit, and it hasn't been outlawed. In the Unlimited Top Fuel category? How 'bout that? Anyone?......Bueller?.....Suckeeeeerrr.....
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
11/10/2004
23:38:08
| RE: throttle body spacer vs. tornado??
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Good pont.
I know a few people who believe in that crap and try to talk me into it. But 2 yrs later I'm still not buying!
I think what the BUTT DYNO is feeling is the REDUCED power in much of the powerband and then PEAKS where the power wasn't as reduced by the object in the intake :-P
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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11/11/2004
21:44:16
| RE: throttle body spacer vs. tornado??
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Absolutely correct GraphiteDak.
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