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ID4x4
Dodge Dakota
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11/06/2004
07:16:54
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 Subject: 4.7 vs 05 toyota v6
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So I am proud as hell with 01 cc 4x4 with a 4.7 5-speed, then I see the new Toyota taco coming with a v-six rated at 245 hp, and the new daks (which i think are ass ugly) will have at best the HO option for 250 hp. How can a v-8 be so easily squashed by a by a jap DOHC motor? 4.7 v8 vs 4.0 v6, I used to think, DODGE all the way, now I'm not so sure
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Kowalski
GenIII
11/06/2004
08:31:53
| RE: 4.7 vs 05 toyota v6
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I think you are being misled - peak hp numbers only tell part of the story. Mopars 4.7 will have more power "under the curve" - that is, on the graph showing power made at all rpm. If you compare that way, I believe you will find the 4.7 is making better power in areas where the smaller Toyota 6 can't. I'll take good torque across the whole rpm range over peak numbers any day; its a much better representation of how much power is really there.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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midnightdak
Dodge Dakota
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11/06/2004
12:57:53
| RE: 4.7 vs 05 toyota v6
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All i have to say is...when you buy a new car/truck remember torque wins the races,and hp sells.When someone sees 2 cars on the lot there most likly going to get the one with 25 more hp while it has 100 less torque than the other.
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sorrytosay
Dodge Dakota
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11/06/2004
23:20:31
| RE: 4.7 vs 05 toyota v6
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Brand loyalty or not, I think Toyota trumped us this time with the '05 X-Runner. Dodge is gonna have to start thinking big or rather fast if they're gonna want to stay appealing. And word has it that TRD models will be S/C'ged. OUCH!
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ID4x4
Dodge Dakota
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11/07/2004
10:30:59
| RE: 4.7 vs 05 toyota v6
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Don't get me wrong, I wasn't really dumping on the 4.7, I love mine. Even with my Rancho lift and 33" MTs, my 5-speed still does well enough for me. I was more lamenting that other manufactures are tweaking and designing engines for performance while Dodge says "only v-8 offered in it's class". I am not a mechanic, just seems like there could or should be more in this engine than the 20 hp increase on the HO version. I know a little about torque vs. horsepower, I think the new Toyota v6 is around 280-285 ft lbs, pretty close to the 4.7. And, if they offer the factory s/cer, there is some pretty nice power. Just wish Dodge was a little more aggressive.
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Kowlski
Dodge Dakota
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11/07/2004
14:54:57
| RE: 4.7 vs 05 toyota v6
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Again, when you look at peak #s, you're only looking at part of the picture. I'll bet the 4.7 is making more torque at lower rpm.
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racerX
Dodge Dakota
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11/07/2004
15:21:38
| RE: 4.7 vs 05 toyota v6
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a 4.7 and dakota is also a good bit heavier than that sixer toyota though...
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ID4x4
Dodge Dakota
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11/07/2004
18:19:52
| RE: 4.7 vs 05 toyota v6
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Kowalski, I think I understand what you are saying. The 4.7 makes more power and torque at lower RPM (i.e. daily driving, cruising down the highway, towing etc.)while the new Toyota v-6 has to be in the serious high RPM's to make the same power. Again, I bought my truck for power on demand when I wanted it, suits me fine, but hey more power is always a good thing. My next mod will be the HO cams. BTW you have one of the coolest signature photos, love the plow! I am getting my work truck fitted for a brand new Boss plow this week, nice to see a Dakota capable of the "heavy" Stuff.
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Kowalski
GenIII
11/08/2004
15:44:16
| RE: 4.7 vs 05 toyota v6
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Thanks - I've managed to plow 2' snow with the deflector adding some extra height on the blade to keep the snow from coming over the top of the plow and burying it. That's a real workout for the truck though; best to "plow with the storm" as they say. I think you'll like the HO cams, doing the swap yourself ? Lots of advice archived on this site if you are, worth a read.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
11/09/2004
00:11:18
| RE: 4.7 vs 05 toyota v6
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My friend just traded in his 2000 Frontier for a 2005 or something. He still has the 3.3 Liter which is pretty slow compared to my 4.7 and I'm way heavier and a 4X4.
At the dealership he saw they now are going to have a 4.0 V6 in the Nissan Frontiers. Supposedly 250 HP or so. But I know how them Japs rate their engines. It is always PEAK drop the clutch power. American cars always rate theirs NET with all accesories operating. Have been since 1972. You would think Jap stuff would too but they cheat.
Guarenteed that 4.0 V6 in the Tacoma OR the Frontier will NEVER pull my trailer 80 to 100 MPH up mountain grades like my 4.7 does.
TORQUE
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Mr.Sleepy
Dodge Dakota
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11/09/2004
12:49:13
| RE: 4.7 vs 05 toyota v6
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I seem to recall an article written in motortrend concerning that truck. Indeed the Jap v6 has good numbers, and perhaps decent performance to boot. However don't lose sight of the fact that DOHC V6's are going to be able to put out that kind of power. Our daks are only overhead cam not Dual. This plays a part in engine performance. From what I understand, DOHC setups is what makes the 5.0 stang so fast by comparison to the 5.0 they shove in big sedans. (not including weight or chasis design of course)
I wouldn't worry so much about the Jap engine, and I wouldn't care about their numbers either. Every post on this thread is correct when they say Jap numbers are fudged. Only way to tell is to line up with one, and punch that throttle. There should be a new engine option in the 06-07 Dakota line.
There is talk of giving the ram a bigger Hemi engine, and allowing the 5.7 to drip into the Dakota. However there needs to be a engine compartment change to accomidate that 5.7, so it is likely that we will see some sort of bigger V8, but it may not be the identical Ram engine.
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Paul
Dodge Dakota
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11/09/2004
22:29:33
| RE: 4.7 vs 05 toyota v6
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Ive heard in a couple places that the Hemi will be offered in the Dakota in Mid 05 in the R/T's only.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
11/09/2004
22:56:04
| RE: 4.7 vs 05 toyota v6
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From what I understand, DOHC setups is what makes the 5.0 stang so fast by comparison to the 5.0 they shove in big sedans. (not including weight or chasis design of course
They never had a DOHC 5.0
I assume you meant the 4.6 and 5.4 Triton V8's which come in SOHC and DOHC and now 3 valves per cylinder (2 intake 1 exhaust).
All 5.0's were in the block cam shafts. The later 80's until '94 they were roller cams though.
DOHC really doesn't have much advantage over SOHC to really mean jack sh*t unless you use variable valve timing in which when done is USUALLY only done to the intake cam shaft so in that case you HAVE to have DOHC.
Toyota's 4.7 is DOHC. Ours is SOHC. They don't use Variable Valve Timing or anything so we can do exactly the same thing with ONE cam on each head instead of two.
It's funny about the Hemi fitting or not. I am not too familiar with the Hemi but I would have to say the 4.7 V8 is a pretty damn wide engine for a 287 ci small block. Good thing our spark plugs are on top :-)
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TimberlineSXT
Dodge Dakota
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11/09/2004
23:31:34
| RE: 4.7 vs 05 toyota v6
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One of the things that you could think about is mods. It wouldn't take many mods at all to get a V8 engine like the 4.7L to put out some really impressive numbers and improve performance, as to where a V6 would probably have to be modded to death to get much of a change at all.
Seth
2004 3.7L SXT R/C 5sp
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jasonsdakota
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2004
00:12:19
| RE: 4.7 vs 05 toyota v6
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not true about dohc not doing anything about performance without vtec. very not true. every v6 high performance sedan these days is coming with dohc. it's like having a race cam above 4000 rpm but under that keeping a good idle cam. it is two different cam profiles for different rpms. most dohc engines actually have four cams. vtec is a nice bonus, even on sohc engines like the civic ex. (think taurus sho)
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Kowalski
GenIII
11/10/2004
16:26:14
| RE: 4.7 vs 05 toyota v6
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You can get some more flow with extra valves; but I don't believe there's different profiles for different rpms as you claim unless you do have variable valve timing. On the DOHC motorcycle heads I'm familiar with it's only one grind, not two.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
11/10/2004
23:48:15
| RE: 4.7 vs 05 toyota v6
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Yeah. On a DOHC setup with OUT variable valve timing you will have a fixed lobe profile on the intake cam and a fixed one on the exhaust cam. You can make a SOHC have the same exact profile for both intake and exhaust but on the same cam.
Therefore your SOHC intake and exhaust valves would have the very same lift and duration as you could get with DOHC.
If you have variable valve timing it's usually ONLY the intake one then you would HAVE to be DOHC with the variable timing control only on the intake cam like all the cars are doing now.
I think DOHC on cars without variable valve timing is just a selling point. Seeing DOHC makes it seem like it is better. If the cam profile isn't any better than their SOHC version, then there is no difference. But obviously on cars like Saturns who sell both a SOHC and DOHC version of the same engine there is MORE differences than just dual cams. It's a performance "package" to sell.
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Harrison
Dodge Dakota
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11/13/2004
22:13:33
| RE: 4.7 vs 05 toyota v6
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if you guys are talking about racing, im sorry but your dakota doesnt stand a chance. My tacoma, a 2004 V6 F O U R C A M will destroy a 4.7 dakota any day. This year they are adding 55 hp and god knows how much tourqe. You would be destroyed.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
11/13/2004
23:14:41
| RE: 4.7 vs 05 toyota v6
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Bring that sh*t on dude :-)
Then for sh*ts and giggles we'll strap each others back bumper together with a chain and do some tug of war!
Either I'll be dragging you backwards like a crushed bug, or your bumper will come off!
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Jared
Dodge Dakota
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11/13/2004
23:24:05
| RE: 4.7 vs 05 toyota v6
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Ive got a '97 318 dakota and i would be more than happy to race/drop chains with any other brand/year non full size truck.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
11/13/2004
23:24:38
| RE: 4.7 vs 05 toyota v6
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Oh yeah. Your f o u r c a m V6, does it use variable valve timing?
If not, the DOHC does nothing better. Same thing as comparing the DOHC 4.7 Toyota makes. It doesn't do anything the SOHC 4.7 can't do.
In fact, it's a pain for working on. Toyota's V8 has a BELT drive to the first cam and a chain going to the second cam!!! We have one cam in each head and all chain drive.
Took me 2 to 3 hrs to swap my cams. Try that on a DOHC.
I suppose this argument will go on forever. How a sh*t box Toyota guy came in here, I don't know.But it's always fun to race some guy with a Taco that thnks it's fast. Blowing their doors off with something that actually sounds good is great. For some reason I see lots of loud duals (fake duals) on Taco's around here. They sound like utter sh*t!
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